PA's Battle to Stardom C2: Opeth v. VDGG
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53336
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Topic: PA's Battle to Stardom C2: Opeth v. VDGG
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Subject: PA's Battle to Stardom C2: Opeth v. VDGG
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 15:30
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Please: If you are not familiar with one or both of the band's material, I urge
that you use the links provided and at least listen to the samples on
their respective pages (or Youtube if the particular band has no online
streaming). Opeth's PA page: ../artist.asp?id=1122 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1122 VDGG's PA page: ../artist.asp?id=343 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=343 ../artist.asp?id=94 - As always, discussions are encouraged. Recap: Round 3 C1: C1: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53258 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53258 Round 2 B1: B2: Emerson, Lake and Palmer v. B3: B4: Van der Graaf Generator v. B5: Rush v. B6: B7: Le Orme v. B8: B1: forum_posts.asp?TID=52648&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52648&PN=1 B2: forum_posts.asp?TID=52714 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52714 B3: forum_posts.asp?TID=52795 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52795 B4: forum_posts.asp?TID=52869 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52869 B5: forum_posts.asp?TID=52956&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52956&PN=1 B6: forum_posts.asp?TID=53056&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53056&PN=1 B7: forum_posts.asp?TID=53114&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53114&PN=1 B8: forum_posts.asp?TID=53181&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53181&PN=1 Round 1 A1: A2: A3: Emerson, Lake and Palmer v. A4: A5: Can v. A6: A7: Van der Graaf Generator v. A8: Samla Mammas Manna v. A9: Rush v. A10: A11: Henry Cow v. A12: A13: A14: A15: A16: Gentle Giant v. A1: forum_posts.asp?TID=51423&PN=2 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51423&PN=2 A2: forum_posts.asp?TID=51492&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51492&PN=1 A3: forum_posts.asp?TID=51567&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51567&PN=1 A4: forum_posts.asp?TID=51630&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51630&PN=1 A5: forum_posts.asp?TID=51711&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51711&PN=1 A6: forum_posts.asp?TID=51778 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51778 A7: forum_posts.asp?TID=51855 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51855 A8: forum_posts.asp?TID=51928&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51928&PN=1 A9: forum_posts.asp?TID=52011 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52011 A10: forum_posts.asp?TID=52091 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52091 A11: forum_posts.asp?TID=52158&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52158&PN=1 A12: forum_posts.asp?TID=52246 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52246 A13: forum_posts.asp?TID=52336 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52336 A14: forum_posts.asp?TID=52411&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52411&PN=1 A15: forum_posts.asp?TID=52487&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52487&PN=1 A16: forum_posts.asp?TID=52571 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52571 ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 15:35
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THE WORST CHOICE EVER THROWN IN FRONT OF ME. Opeth, my favourite band at the moment vs VDGG, the band that helped shape my entire musical career. Opeth, however, did the same as VDGG to me. So it's gonna have to be them, although I hate to do it  ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 15:38
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I haven't gotten into either band yet. Sorry.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 15:41
| Some two years ago I'd have had a major problem choosing. Today my choice is clearly Opeth. Unlike with VdGG, I haven't grown bored with Opeth. Lots of respect for VdGG though, a very talented bunch, it's just that the magic wore off. |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 15:53
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Down with Opeth! VDGG is 1,000,000x more interesting to me.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 15:58
| I think I like Opeth's albums a bit more. Bit of a tough call for me. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 16:02
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Musically, I think that I prefer Opeth. Vocally, I prefer Akerfeldt's clean voice to Hammill's quirky voice; but I prefer Hammill's quirky voice to Akerfeldt's Cookie Monster voice. I've pretty much sat out all of the VDGGs and Opeths so far, so no reason to start making a choice now. The next poll is going to lead to quite the bloodbath though. ------------- 
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 16:07
I don't think so, Rush's going to take that one fairly easily, I'd imagine. |
rushfan4 wrote:Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 16:09
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Oy vey, Rush vs. Magma?! Better take cover...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 16:18
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I think the VDGG guys will have a hard time here. I ve' heard "Still Life" and it was a very good album , just that growling vocals are not for me. However PH voice is also an adquired taste. A band that has 2 records in the top 10 just can't lose this early.
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Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 16:19
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I'd vote for VdGG almost against any other band. But in this case... I'll vote for VdGG! Still Life, Godbluff and Pawn Hearts are all some of my very favorite albums. Opeth are good but VdGG are the masterliness.  -------------  
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 16:53
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VDGG by a factor of lots. I like Opeth, but they're simply not on the same level... not even close. VDGG cut the second best album ever, and hold four of my top 11. They're also my favourite band ever. Hammill is miles ahead of any other vocalist, and can express complex emotions in a way that pretty much noone else does. Their piano and guitar inclusions are extremely tasteful and evocative. Jaxon's done more for the sax than any member of Opeth has done for their instrument, as far as I can see; Banton's formidable, often classically-based and heavily customised organs... sometimes takes a while to get what he's doing in a particular song, but when you do, it's amazing. Guy Evans is no slouch either, though I can see why his beat-and-massive-fill style might not suit some people. I can't understand a vote for Opeth, but that's because I'm a shameless VDGG fanboy, and someone who's generally more of a classic prog man. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 17:00
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Opeth. I just do not get VdGG. I can't stand Hamill's voice, there's virtually no decent guitar, no bass and the music is dark, and I hate dark. I do like Hugh Banton's keyboards, though. Opeth are heavy and interesting, though the death metal growls take a bit of getting used to. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Lofcaudio
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 17:10
I'd say that this sums up my feelings perfectly. Well said Hercules!
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Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 17:12
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VDGG all the way! All take Peter Hammill's exceptional voice anyday over death growls. Opeth's vocals have improved greatly and once the growls go away completely I'll take them more seriously, because they make great music:) ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 17:15
Oh crap... Opeth fanboys scare me  Go VdGG, some of the most emotional music put to tape, especially from Pawn Hearts to Still Life, three 5-star albums IMO. |
Posted By: Takeshi Kovacs
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 17:27
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VdGG rfor me, though I like Opeth. VdGG are one of the pioneering classic prog bands though, and I can't go against that.
-------------  Open the gates of the city wide....
Check out my music taste: http://www.last.fm/user/TakeshiKovacs/ |
Posted By: Okocha
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 17:31
| VDGG |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 18:11
You haven't even come across one....until now. OPETH!OPETH!OPETH! Who knows though? Maybe one of these days I might come to actually understand what so many people see in VDGG. But for now, they really just don't fit my tastes, plus they're against my second favorite band. Although I am surprised that it isn't a bloodbath yet. ------------- 
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 18:19
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Tough tough call Opeth by a tiny margin |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 18:30
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Either way I'll actually be happy. I'm a massive fan of both bands.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 18:44
| I 've just realized something , both bands have a "Still life" album. What a pointless founding! |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 20:41
| This was a tough choice for me, I used to be huge on Opeth, and didn't like VDGG very much at all, now I just like both a good amount, went with VDGG. |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 21:33
| I pick VDGG because i love Hammill's lyrics combined with his amazing voice. I also enjoy VDGG's musical style more. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 21:51
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I'm a more modern progger
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 03:12
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TGM: Orb VdGG may be the more emotional of the two bands, but it's also their own undoing IMO. They are almost grotesquely so, their music collapses under its own weight. And while it's true that VdGG did more than for their respective instruments than Opeth for theirs, it's also true that many other musicians did much more for those instruments than VdGG did. Basically if I start listening to VdGG nowadays, I'll end up listening to some heavy avantgarde. If I start listening to Opeth, I'll end up listening to... more Opeth. This is why I voted for Opeth. But anyway, I'm not bothered about VdGG taking this one, they're very talented musicians and I used to love them a lot a few years ago. |
Posted By: JoaoPirucas
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 05:14
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OPETH
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Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 08:34
No hesitation what so ever!! OPETH! 
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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 08:45
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VDGG all the way.
I must listen to some more Opeth - a lot of people whose opinions I respect really rate them, but I can't see what all the fuss is about. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 10:52
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VdGG ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 11:59
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Van der Graaf, though there is a lot of their sound in Opeth. Love both bands, and they are two of my favorites. Incidentally, I find Opeth more pretentious and corny than VdGG, which is saying a wee bit. Both are neat, but Opeth have never written a song anywhere near as good to Scorched Earth. ------------- 
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 13:09
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VdGG, simply because they were consistently stunnig, where Opeth only had a short period like that.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Scoppioingola
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 13:13
| VdGG without a single doubt for me. Opeth is a great band, but Pawn Hearts and Godbluff are two of my favorites albums of all time. |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 15:41
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It Makes No Sence at all to Compare , Opeth and V.D.G.G by all means VDGG are a million miles Away from Opeth .. So i'm not casting my vote now to back - up VDGG , Hammill and Friends Doesn't need my Help , even if I Smell that the War is Crossing over the Big Ocean of Progressive Music . Since it's not a < Battle > Anymore , and I Smell that it's < War > , I Felt , one Way or Another , Obliged and Pushed to Participate in this Poll . So , I'm Giving my Vote to One of the Best 10 Bands that I consider < the Pioneers > of Progressive Music for all times .  What the Hell is Going on these Days /// -- 40 Years of Excellent Career , 6 Masterpieces by all means , Best Stage
Performances around the Planet , and More than 5 Excellent releases since
the first album , and a worldwide recognition for their achievments in 40 years //
Against -- A New Born Child ( of Porcupine Tree ) called < Opeth >
=== A Small but Important Remark , I love
Opeth , I Also Enjoy All Their Works , except the Early
ones , as Most of You , i dislike Death metal and i
Believe that their early releases aren't
Progressive !!!!!!! and Sorry for Being
Aggressive in my Opinion /////////////////
   ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 16:28
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Opeth may be really good in their genre, but they are no match for VDGG... |
Posted By: RoidRageOnStage
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 17:03
| Van Der Graaf Generator |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 17:32
So you hate "dark" but like Opeth?  And woo-hoo @ VDGG's comeback! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 17:35
Yeah that struck me too. -------------
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 19:01
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I like Opeth they are pretty good, but they dont come close to the greatness of VDGG! ------------- 
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Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 19:28
VDGG. Could never accept Opeth as a prog band, I still can't hear the prog influences... And I hate that cliche Death Metal grunting  ------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: Treasure
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 21:08
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Look at my profile picture. Van Der Graaf is an amazing band, but not nearly as amazing as Opeth. ------------- 
http://www.last.fm/user/YertGuy - http://www.last.fm/user/YertGuy |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 23:02
I'm sorry, but I laughed at that statement. If you're trying to slyly imply that Opeth is "just another death metal band" like I've heard people do on this forum before, then that's far from the truth. I can give you three clear reason why: 1) Opeth is much, much lighter than most other death metal bands, 2) they use extended song lengths (not many death metal bands crank out 10 minute song after 10 minute song), and 3) their songwriting is much more mature and complex than most other death metal bands. Akerfeldt has also sighted progressive rock as a major influence in the music he makes, especially Camel and Porcupine Tree. If you don't like them because of the harsh vocals, that's perfectly fine, and they most certainly aren't a "progressive rock" band in the sense of 70s prog rock, but please don't go saying they aren't a prog band in any sense because that's simply not true. -------------
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Posted By: MrEdifus
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 13:12
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Definitely Opeth. VDGG is one of the most grossly overrated bands to ever carry the label of "progressive rock." Their sound is weak and empty, with no guitar, almost no bass, and a vocalist that sounds like Fish-Lite (Yes, I know Hammill came first, but Fish did it better. Far better.) So one of the most innovative bands in prog-metal, which is easily the best sub-genre of progressive rock, wins this one easily. Hopefully this will turn around and VDGG will go down. Where they belong. ------------- 
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 15:13
Oh my word, no guitar?!!! How monstrous and pretentious is that?! It's almost like they're genuinely progressive, or experimental, or something like that (small brackets, Van Der Graaf Generator do actually have a bit of guitar... not generally as a lead instrument, but still, Meurglys III has a particularly extended lead guitar, as does The Emperor In His War Room... The Sleepwalkers and Childlike Faith have much more subtle electrics... coincidentally, if you listen to something like H To He or The Quiet Zone, there is actually quite a bit of bass as well) |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 16:15
I don't think I could have put it better myself.  Careful though, Edifus. Using the word "overrated" might send some people on here home crying.-------------
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 16:28
I think you're rather underselling yourself there |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 16:30
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over-rated is such a poor choice of words... I prefer... over-appreciated. Opeth all the way. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 16:31
Spot on. Their greatest asset and weakness at the same time. I have a complicated, extremely mood-dependent relation with VdGG. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 16:48
Thanks for the explanation |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:20
| VDGG by an incredibly large margin, and 0% error. |
Posted By: mourningknight
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:36
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VDGG!!!! |
Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:37
so you're saying that VDGG is just too emotional? not sure how one can turn that around to be a bad asset but....okay, I guess... VDGG for me, I've probably been into Opeth longer than most people here...and while I've always enjoyed them and they are a fun band to listen to, they haven't done as much for me "emotionally" and musically as VDGG, which I've only been into VDGG for about 8 years and Opeth since their beginnings (about 95) |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 17:55
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Opeth has a good concept on paper, but the songs are more like exhibitions that are really lacking in tact and structure. Plus you can only write so many clashing blues riffs... Plus it's so one-dimensional in the emotional area. Always depressing, and/or dark. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 19:05
Go listen to some death metal and then tell me that. My point is that Opeth may not be the most complex band on the planet, but they're sure as hell technical enough to be considered progressive and, like I said before, more structured than your average death metal band. Otherwise, all I really see is opinion in your statement. -------------
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 19:11
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Also since I'm thinking about it, this is taken directly from the Wikipedia page of Opeth's "Still Life" album: The song "Benighted" is its only acoustic track, containing a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz - jazz -influenced http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_solo - guitar solo . The song bears a resemblance to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_%28band%29 - Camel's "Never Let Go" on their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_%28album%29 - self-titled debut-album . Hopefully that says something to some of you.  -------------
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Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 19:13
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Why are people complaining that Van der Graaf Generator has too little guitar? How is that a requirement? They don't have a guitarist, so of course they're not going to have very much guitar. Silly people. And, truth be told, both bands, though I really enjoy them, are two of the most overrated bands on this forum and elsewhere in the prog community. And I don't see them as particularly polarizing bands between each other, either. They in the end strike me as pretty similar in terms of feel. -------------
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 19:24
Hmmmm, an eclectic prog band which many people consider to be one of the defining band of 70s progressive rock (although I don't) against a band that is listed in a genre that most people on this site don't really give much attention or credit to, that is in fact spit upon fairly often except in most cases for Opeth and occasionally Meshuggah. True, both bands do have a similar feel to the to the extent that they're very dark bands, but otherwise I don't really see how their sounds are similar. Quite honestly, VDGG has never struck me as using any metal and Opeth has never felt eclectic to me. Not quite sure how you think they have similar feels, but you're entitled to your opinion I guess. -------------
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 19:36
Just because their music has a similar feel doesnt mean it has to sound the same. Opeth sometimes have a Camel feel to their music without actually sounding like Camel. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:01
------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: MrEdifus
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:11
If the main songwriter cited prog influences, then they're there. -------------
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Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:16
------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:52
It is a shame you can't tell. Especially when such influences are right there in the music. I'm wondering if you honestly even payed attention to anything I said. And if saying a band is prog or not is a matter of opinion, well then how do we even know what's prog and what isn't? I also appreciate the fact that you never commented on anything I said, but just continued to spout your opinion. If you want to have a debate about this, I'm more than willing to engage you, but you need to bring some cold, hard facts along with you. Otherwise I'll just drop the issue right here.-------------
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Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 23:26
------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 00:14
-------------
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 00:51
For a modern progger I'd say VdGG would be the natural choice. I do like Opeth too. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 02:52
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For me, this is a poll of "who gets annihilated in the next round?" VdGG never clicked for me, Opeth almost did not. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 03:39
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opeth. VDGG is a much more. . . aquired taste, one im still trying to get used to. Its strange somehow to me, and i like some pretty bizzare music. i like some of it, but for the most part it fails to interest me. opeth is fairly easy to get and easy to like IMO. not the best prog band or metal band around by any stretch but pretty damn good. i really liked blackwater park and most of ghost reveries and watershed. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 08:39
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Opeth have recently grown on me and i like much. But... Van Der Graff IS Van Der Graff and Hammill is a god!!! Guess my vote.... -------------  |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 08:47
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