Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Goodbye!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedGoodbye!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21402
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Goodbye!
    Posted: November 07 2008 at 09:10
I'm leaving this website, and the forum. Thanks to everyone ... I participated in so many discussions over the years, and it's breaking my heart to leave it all behind. But it seems that I can't participate here anymore without occasionally mentioning my own website ... I still think that both PA and PF can simply co-exist. But apparently to most collabs here it is a nuissance (a "pain in the ass", in plain words) and only tolerated because of the genre charts, and this situation is slowly but steadily wearing me out. So, I'd rather continue at PF on my own than constantly trying to make compromises and doing things both for PF and PA. Of course the genre charts will be available for PA as long as you need them ... but I can't be here any longer, because everything would remind me of how my website is being ignored. Even if this means that I'll be the only active user of PF ... then so be it!


Peace.
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
Jared View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Online
Points: 20162
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 09:15

Firstly Mike, I want to make it quite clear that I believe your contribution to this web site has been nothing short of phenomenal over the past several years; a contribution which I have benefited greatly from during that time. So, if I appear to be critical in what I am about to say, please view it constructively, and in that light.

There is no-one on this site who will deny that in ProgFreak, you have developed an incredibly impressive statistical tool, which enable progressive fans to get lost in for hours at a time to tag, label and create charts for their favourite music. Its capability is truly impressive, and I personally don’t know of anything in the marketplace, which comes anywhere close to it, in terms of quality. You might call it the ‘Bugatti’ of rating sites.

The problem seams to lie in the fact that some of us, less sophisticated types remain happy driving around in our Peugeots, because we feel comfortable in them, and they are really all we seek in life. Now, this parallel existence has existed within PA quite happily for over 3 years now; some of us driving around PA in your lovingly crafted Bugatti, while others are in Peugeots, and others still are happy on their push-bikes.

I think however that something changed, at about the time you left the Prog Metal Team. Because you had no genre teamwork to concentrate on any longer, you poured all your energies into trying to improve your Bugatti. You refined it, added extra buttons, and have tried to make it more user-friendly, in a concerted effort to get other PA members to ditch their Peugeots and buy in to what you were doing.

Because you have (inevitably) invested so much in it emotionally, you started pushing it in every conversation, in an attempt to convert people to your way of thinking. Having so much faith in your product, you simply cannot believe that any self respecting PA’er’s life can be complete without ProgFreak in their daily lives. Under the misconception that if you push something hard enough and for long enough, people will relent, you took it very personally when they didn’t.

Now, I’m quite confident that there is no-one on this web site who has deliberately boycotted ProgFreak, because you are its founder. If there are such people, then they are very shallow and spiteful, and not worthy of your time and attention. There are however people who simply don’t think membership will enhance their enjoyment of the music they listen to, while others find it all a bit scary and intimidating.

The problem is, you have (in my opinion, wrongly) taken this to be a personal slight, and have increasingly alienated some with your over-wrought outbursts about how we are ‘ripping your heart out with our bare hands and throwing it into the kitchen blender’ every time we ignore your posts. Now, I’m no salesman, but I would guess that isn’t the most effective way to attract new business, and a possible way of existing users.

Now, I speak from the heart when I say that this makes me very sad. You may not believe it when I say this, but I am very pleased for you, when others decide to join your site; networking and friendship is, after all, what we are all here for. That said, few products, no matter how earth-shattering they might be, will suit everyone. Unfortunately, this is something you fail to accept, and I am not afraid of standing up to you, when I think you have gone too far.

Recently, for reasons we have discussed, I think you crossed the line, in policing a thread, stipulating that only those with Prog Freak accounts could post in. That is simply wrong. It is like telling the Peugeot drivers that a road has been closed off to them, because they are driving the wrong type of vehicle, and for that reason, I am not sorry for the way I spoke to you.

That said, if a break away from PA is something which you would benefit from, and help you regain some of your otherwise very clear perspective, that might not be a bad thing. I will stress that because of all the good that you have done for this site over the years, you permanent departure will ultimately make PA a poorer place. Whatever you decide Mike, I wish you nothing but happiness.Smile

Best Wishes

Jared



Edited by fandango - November 07 2008 at 12:54
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
Back to Top
b_olariu View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 5534
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 09:20
Hmmm, MikeEnRegalia, tough choice you made, after so many things done here. I can't contest your decision for leaving PA , well, for me is like another great collaborator and discussion companion gone with no trace of coming back, like another dutch gentleman who left the PA this summer.  Shocked
 
 
Back to Top
NotAProghead View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7908
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 09:40
Hardly a good decision. I don't think your absence here will add popularity to your site.

It's not too late to change your mind. 
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 09:52
Unhappy
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21402
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 09:52
^^ as I see it, my presence here does not add much popularity to it either Wink ... of course I know that many (if not all) current users of PF originated from PA, but let's be honest: I'll have to try to get users on my own, instead of begging for a few "bread crumbs" here all the time.


What you people need to understand about PF are three basic things:

1. I spent a *lot* of time building it ... at least several hours per week for the last 2-3 years.
2. I'm not making any money with it. Yes, it does contain some Amazon/CDBaby affiliation links, but up to this day I've made about $60 with them. Considering that I've been paying 50 € per month for the server for the last three years, it's a bad deal ...
3. PA does profit from PF.

So maybe some you you can see how frustrated I am to see that most of you are simply ignoring it. I realize that tagging and rating is not for everyone, but I really had my hopes that more people would be sympathetic to the cause.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - November 07 2008 at 09:59
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
Padraic View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 09:56
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ as I see it, my presence here does not add much popularity to it either Wink ... of course I know that many (if not all) current users of PF originated from PA, but let's be honest: I'll have to try to get users on my own, instead of begging for a few "bread crumbs" here all the time.


Seriously Mike, I always thought you were a great asset to PA and you will be missed.  But I wish you the very best of luck with progfreak and your other future endeavors.




Edited by NaturalScience - November 07 2008 at 09:57
Back to Top
Chicapah View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 10:41
Sorry to see you go.
"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
Back to Top
Windhawk View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11401
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:01
I'm sorry to see this happen, but I'm not really surprised. You have a dedication to your site, and it must be frustrating to see negativity on a product you've put so much of your heart and soul into.

As I see it it's a niche service you provide there - I tried recruiting a bit for you a couple of years back over at RYM, but even there interest were so-so. For those enjoying the finer details of music rating it's a good product though; hope for your sake that you'll mange to find more kindred souls to participate in the project and give you positive feedback on a regular basis.

I'll continue using it in the simple manner I've done so far as long as the service is available.
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
Back to Top
debrewguy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:02
I don't see why PA members were obligated to use any other site not of their choosing ?
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
Back to Top
NotAProghead View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7908
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:05
Again, Mike, if you'll leave PA, your PF problems will stay with you. Who wins?

I guess you can spend less time for PA and more for your site, but it is not necessary to say goodbye.
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21402
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:18
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

I don't see why PA members were obligated to use any other site not of their choosing ?


I'm not sure whether you are referring to the now defunkt "top albums of 2008" thread that I started a while ago. If you do: Well, it was only in that one thread that I created, and there was another one (started by stonebeard) which was open for anyone. It simply were two different concepts, and to see that some people perceive this as some kind of "obligation" only adds to my frustration.
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21402
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:19
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Again, Mike, if you'll leave PA, your PF problems will stay with you. Who wins?

I guess you can spend less time for PA and more for your site, but it is not necessary to say goodbye.


Staying here would mean that I would always be reminded of all the grief and anger. Instead, I'd like to remember the good times ... Smile
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
NotAProghead View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7908
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:24
OK, maybe you need some time to calm down.

Anyway I hope, sooner or later, to see here again.

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
Back to Top
stonebeard View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:30
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

I don't see why PA members were obligated to use any other site not of their choosing ?


I'm not sure whether you are referring to the now defunkt "top albums of 2008" thread that I started a while ago. If you do: Well, it was only in that one thread that I created, and there was another one (started by stonebeard) which was open for anyone. It simply were two different concepts, and to see that some people perceive this as some kind of "obligation" only adds to my frustration.


I didn't notice your thread when I created that one. I probably wouldn't have made it if I did.
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21402
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:39
^ I realise that now ... never mind that PM.Wink

Still, it's good that you made one because mine is now gone.Smile
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
jimmy_row View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 12:11
Good luck with your site, and all your ventures, Mike.  Hope to see you around here again some timeSmile
Signature Writers Guild on strike
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21402
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 12:17
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

I'm sorry to see this happen, but I'm not really surprised. You have a dedication to your site, and it must be frustrating to see negativity on a product you've put so much of your heart and soul into.

yes, that's exactly the point. Being here always reminds me of how few people use PF ... it's particularly frustrating in threads where people ask for things which I've implemented at PF. Yet when I mention my website I get flamed or am being made fun of ... I'd rather have no conversation than go through that every day.

As I see it it's a niche service you provide there - I tried recruiting a bit for you a couple of years back over at RYM, but even there interest were so-so. For those enjoying the finer details of music rating it's a good product though; hope for your sake that you'll mange to find more kindred souls to participate in the project and give you positive feedback on a regular basis.

LOL I remember those threads at RYM ... thanks for your support, but I think that - like here - it's a lost cause. Even if my website is really different from PA or RYM, users of those website will always view it as some kind of intruder ... and they'll be loyal of their primary site.

I'll continue using it in the simple manner I've done so far as long as the service is available.

Please, I already said it in the other thread: The manner in which you're using my website is exactly like I hoped for. You don't have to rate dozens of albums each week, that would be a chore. No matter how dedicated or motivated you may be, such a schedule will wear you out sooner or later ... be it at PF (with rating and tagging) or at PA (with reviewing and arguing genre decisions).



2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
Man Erg View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: August 26 2004
Location: Isle of Lucy
Status: Offline
Points: 7456
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 12:20
Sad news but the very best of luck in your endeavours.

Every journey starts with a single step...Break a leg



Edited by Man Erg - November 07 2008 at 12:29

Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
Back to Top
Jared View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Online
Points: 20162
Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2008 at 13:00
I have added my thoughts to Mike as promised, in the second post....
 
I am quite sure not all of you will agree with me, but its best out in the open.
 
I will not be adding any other posts in this thread; all that remains for me to do is to publicly wish Mike every future success and happiness, if he does elect to leave the site....Smile
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.132 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.