The "Metallica for Prog Related" Poll |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 18:35 | ||||
Sorry, but this is ridiculous... There's no logic whatsoever in this conclusion.
Please Zafreth, your dedication to this is at the same time admirable for your tenacity and also quite strange... I fail to see where your passion to keep Metallica out of PA comes from.
Anyway, go back to previous answers where you kind of gave some arguments. This picking of others' posts and drawing impossible conclusions doesn't help your cause. Edited by The T - August 19 2008 at 18:41 |
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burritounit
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2007 Location: Puerto Rico Status: Offline Points: 2551 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 18:42 | ||||
Just like you said: "maybe"...I still see their relation as a long shot. Well have to wait and see what happens with them here in PA. Edited by burritounit - August 19 2008 at 18:43 |
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"I've walked on water, run through fire, can't seem to feel it anymore. It was me, waiting for me..."
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 19:17 | ||||
Thank you !!!
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 19:27 | ||||
Edited by zafreth - August 19 2008 at 19:52 |
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Statutory-Mike
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 15 2008 Location: Long Island Status: Offline Points: 3737 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 19:39 | ||||
No metallica to the archives plz
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 19:41 | ||||
and you will not regret... by the way if you want to expand more your musical boundaries see the following musicians:
Bill Evans. Pianist of Kind of Blue BTW.
Peter Brotzmann astounding saxophonist.
Anthony Braxton, saxophonist and one of the living legend.
Cecil Taylor great pianist...
and so on...
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
Posted: August 19 2008 at 20:11 | ||||
agreed, but I was talking about their "progressive" influence rather than on musical influence, which i agree is rather major
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35951 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 01:08 | ||||
Interesting. The wiki definition
This highlights a question I had before reading about Metallica. "Bands such as Fates Warning, Queensrÿche and Dream Theater took elements of these progressive rock groups – primarily the instrumentation and compositional structure of songs – and merged them with heavy metal styles associated with early Metallica and Megadeth. The result could be described as a progressive rock mentality with heavy metal sounds." That Metallica was "progressive" (but not Prog) and influential was not in doubt for me. That it influenced bands like DT I was aware of. A concern of mine has been that the Prog part of the equation in those Prog Metal bands comes from classic Prog bands such as Yes, whereas Metallica influenced the heavy metal sounds part. Those heavy metal sounds being fused with progressive rock elements. If talking influence, did Metallica progress metal more, generally-speaking, or Prog generally-speaking? Metallica influenced a whole slew of metal bands, some prog, some not. Not that we can consider Metallica for Proto-Prog anyway. Another problem I have is that it is being compared to non-prog metal bands. As an example, it was doing more complicated stuff than other trash ((no-prog) bands were doing at the time. A part of me would rather compare it to what prog bands were doing at the time, and had done before, even if the progressive metal history and progressive rock history are quite different (heck, it's all rock to me). Anyway, perhaps if I listened to the band's "proggiest," or at least most progressive albums" I might feel differently, but I wouldn't be looking at them historically, I'd be listening to the music based on its own compositional qualities (rather than thinking if this was more progressive than similar bands out there, or if this progressed metal), but if it has sufficient proglike qualities (course it would help if I did know more metal to reference it, but I generally have a decent idea of what is proggy, I think. Not always... Oh, and I'm also more inclusive than most). Edited by Logan - August 20 2008 at 01:13 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65268 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 01:25 | ||||
^ that's quite a fair and good argument Logan, and very close to my stance a year or so ago.. sometimes I think musical perception has more to do with us than the music, and as we progress as listeners and our perspective shifts a bit, sometimes imperceptibly, what once seemed out of place suddenly appears to fit, or vice-versa I suppose ..anyway, I hear where you're coming from and think historical perception and impact are quite important (ironically the Metallica supporters may feel this way too in addition to believing the band played progmetal at one point) ..cheers, I think your position may be shared by many so it was good you articulated it
Edited by Atavachron - August 20 2008 at 01:26 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35951 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 02:21 | ||||
Thanks, it's an idea I've been trying to articulate in past posts too (btw, I wrote trash instead of thrash, honest typo this time ).
This is not as thought out a post. It's late and I'm sleepy. Incidentally, I've read comments about Metallica's techniques influencing bands such as Dream Theater (for instance drums getting out of synch) and don't know how much such stuff is being used to help Metallica's case, but it's not the technique that makes a band prog so much as the structure, as I see it. That techniqe does not make DT Prog. Experimentation and innovation are very important to truly progressive music, though. I wonder if people would still consider, say Master of Puppets, Prog if it came out today? Poor example perhaps, but I'd still consider In the Court prog if it came out today, retro prog, but still prog. Anyway, I do expect that when it comes to influence (say in DT), that classic progressive rock bands were more important to the "Progressive" part of the equation in progressive metal bands than a metal band such as Metallica. Metallica progressed metal generally more than modern Prog, I'd think. Time to get MoP and listen for myself to hear how Prog it sounds to me (okay,I have heard it before, but not for quite some years). |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 02:55 | ||||
Indeed - and Metallica's structures were very advanced compared to metal bands of the time - and strikingly similar to those used (much later) by Dream Theater.
For example "Kill 'em All" features advanced and progressive (as in Prog Rock) structuring, where riffs are developed, turned upside down and inside out. I am not talking about the simple adding of new riffs, as the "technical" thrash bands all tended to, but genuine development of existing ones - the SAME technique that is used on "In The Court of the Crimson King".
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:05 | ||||
Thanks for the recommendations ... but why do you think that my musical boundaries need expanding? BTW: As you may see in my current signature image from time to time, yesterday I bought a Noxagt album ... |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:09 | ||||
According to that review, AJFA is the "pinnacle of Metallica's progressive years".
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:26 | ||||
Indeed. Ladies and gentlemen ... I rest my case.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: August 20 2008 at 03:53 | ||||
Thread closed - we don't need three - please use this one:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50828 |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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