The "Metallica for Prog Related" Poll

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Mike, if you want Metallica added, fight for them in PROG METAL; assume the risk and don't throw it to Prog Related, I'm sure that if you insist, nobody will say a word about it.

I don't think that Metallica are prog metal. Adding them to prog metal would indeed be ridiculous ... I understand why Certif1ed is saying that they're prog metal ... but sometimes a band can be more progressive than Dream Theater and still not be prog metal. All the progressiveness in the world does not change the style of the music.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: One nore question Mike...Why is this poll sane?   Maybe because Metallica is loosing miserably in the other.   If people was voting for Metallica to be added in the oher poll, Would you started a second one?   Iván

I don't feel so good about that idea, to name the poll "sane". Indeed, you could say that I started it because Metallica were losing. The problem with the other poll was that it was quite vague ... this one is specific. I could also start another one asking whether to add Metallica to prog metal ... I'm sure that it would get even fewer votes in favor of Metallica, even I would vote against them. I called this poll sane because I think it's about the most realistic chance of Metallica getting added. IMHO prog related is the appropriate place for them to be. And yes, Iron Maiden being here has a *lot* to do without it. You can ignore consistency all you want, but I care about it.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: I don't think that Metallica are prog metal. Adding them to prog metal would indeed be ridiculous ... I understand why Certif1ed is saying that they're prog metal ... but sometimes a band can be more progressive than Dream Theater and still not be prog metal. All the progressiveness in the world does not change the style of the music.   Then it's the Administrators team responsability, not the Prog Metal Team. I don't feel so good about that idea, to name the poll "sane". Indeed, you could say that I started it because Metallica were losing.   Call me suspicious Mike, but I'm 100% sure that if Metallica wasdoing betterin the other poll, you would never had started this oine.   You claim that you have diferent perspective about Prog Metal with the Adms, respect that as they respect what you decoide for Prog Metal.   PM is the only genre with three sub - sub- genres, that's more than any other stuyle, mod or genre has, they have the call, and apparently with the support of almost 70% of the voters.   The problem with the other poll was that it was quite vague ... this one is specific.   Please Mike, don't try to sell me that, Metallica could be more related than Iron Maiden, but Maiden could be the worst mistake in this forum.   Again, if you knock an eye with the door and get a wonderful purple color....Do you knock your other eye to make it even?  Or you just let the sick eye heal?   I could also start another one asking whether to add Metallica to prog metal ... I'm sure that it would get even fewer votes in favor of Metallica, even I would vote against them.   You are relieving me from commentaries, the majority of the members here and the Adm team don't believe Metallica is Prog Related.....One opinion you should respect.   You don't believe Metallica is Prog Metal...Then there's no other place for them...case closed    I called this poll sane because I think it's about the most realistic chance of Metallica getting added. IMHO prog related is the appropriate place for them to be. And yes, Iron Maiden being here has a *lot* to do without it. You can ignore consistency all you want, but I care about it.   I supported Iron Maiden, I believe Iron Maiden is far more related than Metallica, and my opinion is supported by the persons in charge of this additions.   I don't ignore consistency, but even if Iron Maiden is a mistake...Two mistakes don't make a correct answer in reality, you just make the problem worst.   Each band should be judged EXCLUSIVELY by it's own merits, the owner (apparently) the Administrators and the majority of the members who took their time to vote (in a proportion of 2 to 1) believe Metallica doesn't have the PROGRESSIVE merits to be here.......Accept the facts, doesn't matter how much you want them here, they don't belong according to the vast majority.   I won't ask Crossover, Eclectic or even Prog Related to accept a band Symphonic rejected, do the same.   Iván

regardless of what happens with Metallica, Iron Maiden were an excellent addition to ProgRelated.. I believe it demonstrated a knowledgeable, unbiased understanding of how and when metal became a progressive art form  ..Metallica would be an equally appropriate addition











Edited by Atavachron - August 19 2008 at 03:35

^ We cannot leave them out of this discussion. Neither can we leave out all the other prog related bands ... the discussion is about whether Metallica could be added to the category, and for that discussion it's vital to know which bands are already in there. How else could we determine whether they fit in?

Ok, each band should be discussed by their own merits. But in addition we should keep in mind that the limited list of bands we have in prog related should be a selection of "high profile" bands which aren't 100% prog themselves, but are often mentioned in discussions about prog bands and/or highly influential for those bands, and/or feature progressive elements/tendencies in their music. Metallica easily meet all these requirements. Leaving them out would be a *major* inconsistency. Adding them, but neither of the other 80s thrash bands - that would be the perfect solution IMO.

Just found this link, posted by you in a thread a year or so ago, Mike;

Edited by Certif1ed - August 19 2008 at 06:03

 ^   classic example of a turned man.. eventually they'll kill 'em all 

^ wow ... that's not so good.

^ sure, but Evanescence ... that's inexcusable.

Just a little comic relief on page 2 ... nothing wrong with that.

micky wrote: well in my mind Mike.. if you compare them.. .Metallica comes up on the short end of the stick... as you noted in an earlier post... they early on..Iron Maiden  treaded heavily on prog metal.. if never quite reaching it.. and have over time... with later albums come closer and closer to it. Metallica has not and may be why M@X has vetoed this... who knows.. as usual.. we have no explanation from above.. Metallica  become a shell of what they were for a few brief moments in the middle 80's. That is NOT to say Metallica does not deserve inclusion.  I think they do.  Listen.. we ALL know you disagreed strongly with that decision... but the reason.. and logic behind their inclusion was rock solid.  It doesn't serve your purpose to compare the addition of IM to Metallica.. .because they are simply apples and oranges.

Indeed, I don't even think Iron Maiden "heavily treaded on prog metal", at least not to a great extent anyway.
Indeed, nor did they keep a consistent approach to "becoming more progressive" over time, as seen quite clearly in the rather straight forward style (compared to earlier releases) of No Prayer for the Dying (1990) and Fear Of the Dark (1992), while finally returning to longer and somewhat more complex material from then onwards.
What, on the other hand, was very clear, was Metallica's approach became more progressive each time from their first album (KEA 1983) to AJFA (1988). Given the band were up and running in 1981, that was certainly earlier than the mid 80s, and indeed, more years of progression/progressiveness in their sound than otherwise suggested.  And indeed to my ears, Metallica's first four albums put together are more prog than all of Maiden's output combined.

Having read through various threads on this I think it's safe to say Cert has provided us with some incredibly in depth analysis on how Metallica were very distinct from the rest of the thrash metal pack and also as to why there is no grounds to add the other thrash bands (such as Megadeth, Exodus etc).
To use Iron Maiden in this argument makes a lot more sense than you might realize, because while they represent two different genres of music, there are a lot of parallels in their situation for being here (at least, Iron Maiden CURRENTLY being here), both have a clear lineage of bands they have strongly influenced and at least IMO, Metallica has even more merit to be here under Prog Related than Maiden do.