Prog and the younger generation

explodingjosh wrote: Porcupine Tree, Tool, The Mars Volta, King Crimson, Meshuggah, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Mastodon, Opeth, Radiohead, Dream Theater, Between the Buried and Me, Behold...the Arctopus, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Oceansize, Sigur Ros, Kayo Dot, Three, Pelican, Isis, Devin Townsend, The Tangent, Ayreon, No-Man, Riverside, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.....My point is, Yes and Genesis may be dying a slow and painful death as of 2008, but prog is not. Progress or die!

Half of those bands are not even really "Prog" bands; even though they are on this site a lot of them either refuse to be labeled "Prog" (Porcupine Tree etc...) claim not to be influenced by "Prog" (Sigur Ros etc...) or are not considered "Prog" by most of the world partly because they came from a totally different influence (most Tech Metal, Post Rock, Post Metal and a lot of so called Progressive Metal - you do not see Dream Theater doing to many King Crimson covers - who by the way deny they are "Prog" themselves).

What is keeping "Prog" alive are bands with minimal interest or influence from the "Prog" movement being hijacked into the "Prog" world to make it look fresh. The real "Prog Metal" bands that keep and fuse the "Prog" movements traditions with metal are not breaking new ground (many posts on that here) but rehashing an already codified genre.

This maybe confusing for all the newbies but for the billionth time Big (P) Progressive and small (p) progressive are two different concepts and only one applies here: Big (P) the proper noun for the movement and all bands that are directly influenced by its specific musicality and style. Big (P) Progressive is also not to be confused with associative movements at the same time (Krautrock, Canterbury, Jazz Fusion etc...) who were erroneously put under the same banner.

Under the popular (to the newbie) term small (p) progressive any band with any sort of creativity could be argued as progressive, does not mean they are "Prog"; and since small (p) progressive is so subjective and impossible to prove it is extremely pointless. The use of this term as a connector to the "Progressive Rock" movement or any band that has emerged from such is highly irresponsible and downright revisionist history!

^^^

reality wrote: explodingjosh wrote: Porcupine Tree, Tool, The Mars Volta, King Crimson, Meshuggah, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Mastodon, Opeth, Radiohead, Dream Theater, Between the Buried and Me, Behold...the Arctopus, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Oceansize, Sigur Ros, Kayo Dot, Three, Pelican, Isis, Devin Townsend, The Tangent, Ayreon, No-Man, Riverside, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.....My point is, Yes and Genesis may be dying a slow and painful death as of 2008, but prog is not. Progress or die! Half of those bands are not even really "Prog" bands; even though they are on this site a lot of them either refuse to be labeled "Prog" (Porcupine Tree etc...) claim not to be influenced by "Prog" (Sigur Ros etc...) or are not considered "Prog" by most of the world partly because they came from a totally different influence (most Tech Metal, Post Rock, Post Metal and a lot of so called Progressive Metal - you do not see Dream Theater doing to many King Crimson covers - who by the way deny they are "Prog" themselves). What is keeping "Prog" alive are bands with minimal interest or influence from the "Prog" movement being hijacked into the "Prog" world to make it look fresh. The real "Prog Metal" bands that keep and fuse the "Prog" movements traditions with metal are not breaking new ground (many posts on that here) but rehashing an already codified genre. This maybe confusing for all the newbies but for the billionth time Big (P) Progressive and small (p) progressive are two different concepts and only one applies here: Big (P) the proper noun for the movement and all bands that are directly influenced by its specific musicality and style. Big (P) Progressive is also not to be confused with associative movements at the same time (Krautrock, Canterbury, Jazz Fusion etc...) who were erroneously put under the same banner. Under the popular (to the newbie) term small (p) progressive any band with any sort of creativity could be argued as progressive, does not mean they are "Prog"; and since small (p) progressive is so subjective and impossible to prove it is extremely pointless. The use of this term as a connector to the "Progressive Rock" movement or any band that has emerged from such is highly irresponsible and downright revisionist history!

reality wrote: Proletariat wrote: ^^^ well in that case Prog can die a slow painfull death for all I care because progressive rock will live on. You obviously did not get what we were talking about.. but thats O.K as there is really no such thing as small (p) progressive rock you can live in that fruitless fantasy, but we were discussing the real world. "Prog", "Progressive Rock" is dead (which again does not mean what you think it means). It is still around physically of course but as a fresh medium it is not. That is where the term Dinosaur comes from to describe the genre, yes it actually means like it sounds. Just like "Disco" is a dead movement "Prog" is a dead movement, but just like there may be Disco bands still around, they and their "Prog" counterparts are not breaking new ground just enhancing old territory. If we used your reasoning across the musical board the band "New Order" would be considered Disco and so would later Pink Floyd because of Disco's influence on them. You see how I am clutching at straws to try to make that work. Silly right? But that is exactly how silly people look when they try to say "Prog" is not dead and try to claim new fresh bands as "Prog" when there is no valid reason to do so. Like I said, it is irresponsible and bad, very bad revisionist history! And as for small (p) progressive, where were you when we had the hundred conversations about how it was an illogical and useless term, not applicable to the music?

^^^

MisterProg2112 wrote: Luke. J wrote: Maybe not most prog fans are young people, but the young people use the internet more than the first two generations now do (the fans from 70's and 80's). Those young people just show it more, they attend concerts, sometimes wear shirts with symbols of their favourite bands, while the older ones just listen to the music. To be honest, I find it rare to see people above the age of 35 on concerts, beside it is a concert of a band that once was big and now does reunion tours (Led Zep anyone?)   I feel the opposite about the concert attendance. Most of the prog shows me and my friends go to (Dream Theater, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Rush)..most of the people are above the age of 35...sure there are a good amount of people in their 20's you could say, but normally we're some of the very, very, very, very, very few that are 14-16 years of old.

I have to agree here somewhat.
When I went to see Dream Theater, there were lots of people in their late 20s, even late 30s, people that were most likely people that became fans of Dream Theater when they were teens when DT released their first few albums. I went with a group of a people between 16 and 19, and while we were standing in line there were more people in their 20s/30s standing around us then there were people around my age.

Yeah, if we refuse to consider prog anything that it's different from Genesis or Yes, then yeah, prog is dying.

debrewguy wrote: Imadofus wrote: Yeah, if we refuse to consider prog anything that it's different from Genesis or Yes, then yeah, prog is dying. \And then there are those who say it's not prog anymore if it sounds like genesis or yes

Yeah, proggers are weird

Henry Plainview wrote: I think the only solution is to have everybody stop talking about what prog is or is not. If you don't like the way things are here, nobody is forcing you to come anymore. ;-)

Katy Perry, Chris Brown, Ne-Yo, Metro Station, Estelle, the Plies, Sugarland, Shwayze, Secondhand Serenade, V.I.C. ...
Without google-cheating, please tell me what these have in common.


Edited by debrewguy - August 01 2008 at 12:16