Prog and the younger generation
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50490
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Topic: Prog and the younger generation
Posted By: ziggystardust360
Subject: Prog and the younger generation
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 10:40
I find it funny that among teenagers prog is unknown.And I'm the only exception being 15.Many only recognize Genesis with Phil Collins,many only know Yes's ''Owner of a Lonely Heart''.They only know these great prog bands for the poppy stuff they did in the 80's and they primarily think of them as that one band from that one song.They don't know that before Phil Collins,Peter Gabriel was lead singer and making great music.And they don't know Yes was making classics like ''Roundabout''. 
It seems everyone is trapped in mainstream stuff.
So heres a question is progressive music dead among the youth of today?
------------- ''I always had the repulsive need to be something other than human''-David Bowie |
Replies:
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 10:49
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No. I don't think the number of teenagers who turn to prog (or just listen - you don't have to really be converted to a kind of music, for crying out loud) isn't outright negative. If plainly at the level of experience, I've got no prog friend in my hometown, so in my close life, but overall have corresponded with numerous young proggers. ------------- 
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Posted By: Luke. J
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 11:07
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As progressive rock is not really the mainstream compatible music today, the genre is totally unknown among the youth, as most of the old bands are too (well, beside of the dusty disks and LPs on the parent's shelf). I myself only know one person who also listens to progressive music.
Plus, the progressive metal genre increases the popularity among teenagers, too. I by myself got into prog music with Dream Theater and Pain of Salvation, many metal fans in my area have at least heard of Opeth or Therion. To answer the original question in a short manner: No.
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Posted By: TheGreatNothing
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 11:32
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No, I don't think that it is dead and I believe that it is growing steadily. Many progressive bands that have somewhat more mainstream appeal, such as Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree, are getting more popular and getting more exposure to kids who need something different from the normal mainstream drivel. As a young person myself, I realized that I really didn't like what I was listening to and rejected the music of my generation and look backward for something better. All it took was a few listens to a somewhat more mainstream prog band Rush to get me set straight on the path of prog. Ever since then I have converted many of my friends to listening to prog and other prog related bands. I don't find that the word Progressive has the negative connotation that it once held long ago. When I tell people that I listen to prog they just accept it and move on. I think that prog is not dead with today's youth, it's just in a different form and presentation then it was thirty years ago. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/TheGreatNothing/ - http://www.last.fm/user/TheGreatNothing/ |
Posted By: Roundabot
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 12:17
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No, that's not true, I'm 16 and I love prog since I'm 14 and also I knew this incredible music for the big bands of the seventies and then I started to listen to the newer bands mostly because I found them in the archives. So no prog is not dead among the youth of today, because if I know and love prog music here in South America I guess that in Europe they must be more young prog fans, but correct me if I'm wrong. ------------- 
The Start of Something Beautiful... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 12:24
| im 17 and i love prog. So no. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 12:24
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Don't be silly, this web site was where I learned there is a whole new generation of prog fans, not quite like the older one...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 13:27
This pretty much sums up my situation also. However, i am luckier than some people here and have several friends who listen to progressive rock or traditional rock (deep purple, led zeppelin, the who, etc), some of them influenced by me (something i am very proud of is bringing people to the progressive rock side  ).Also, i was brought to dig deeper in the progressive rock world because of the progressive metal bands (Dream Theater, in my case), who showed me that prog rock was still alive and kicking and that was the exactly same case with my school mate and my friend, who were, together with me, brought back to the prog side by progressive metal. That is whet i hate the most when people trash prog metal: they don't realize yet the importance of prog metal to the survival of the genre among youngsters. On a side note, same thing is happening to punk, who almost got banished into oblivion once the punk wave was gone and the punk agenda was absorbed by the mainstream media, making it look the opposite of what it once was. -------------   
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Luke. J wrote:Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 13:37
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Porcupine Tree, Tool, The Mars Volta, King Crimson, Meshuggah, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Mastodon, Opeth, Radiohead, Dream Theater, Between the Buried and Me, Behold...the Arctopus, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Oceansize, Sigur Ros, Kayo Dot, Three, Pelican, Isis, Devin Townsend, The Tangent, Ayreon, No-Man, Riverside, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. ....My point is, Yes and Genesis may be dying a slow and painful death as of 2008, but prog is not. Progress or die! ------------- 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 13:46
| A poll was taken of forum members ages, some time ago, and I think the 15 - 20 year olds were the majority. If that is any measure, then no. Prog is not dead among the young. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 14:15
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Hey! I'm 14! And I have a great collection of Prog.
Though, I agree with you. In my country, most of my friends hate english, since they don't understand it, and they consider it boring. And this is just English Pop, Hard Rock, Alt rock. Cause they've never heard Prog. They stay with the Fashion Music, the music that "everyone" likes, also to show girls they listen to that music and well...blah, blah.. Also, teens, consider just music to have fun, and for them that's just Electronic, Reggaeton(the worst genre ever existed, not to be confused with Reggae), Cumbia(another disaster for the human kind), and some others. There's really few teens like me, 13, 14, 15, 16, that have knowledge about English(I mean english cause it's really rare someone knows without being in PA, Magma, Italian Prog, etc). And it's really not the Language problem, just cause the majority don't like/know it, they won't listen to it, because it's not mainstream or whatever. Even if I show them a Prog band from here, they'll reject it and laugh about it. People that go with Fashion = Close Minded = main problem of teens of today that don't listen to Prog or at least 70's, 60's music. |
Posted By: Roundabot
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 15:23
The sad truth of south america
In my country is worst, THEY ONLY LISTEN TO THAT WRATH OF HUMANITY THAT IS REAGGETON!!!!!
Wost thing in human kinds history (well at leat musically talking)!!!!!
And also cumbia music is taking control of Peru now, WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING WITH THE WORLD!!!! -------------
The Start of Something Beautiful... |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 15:44
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So what if they just want to have fun? Not everyone has to be a music nerd and get excited every time they hear the name "Steve"... Anyway, I think this topic is rather funny because the largest age group on this site is the teens. I know plenty of kids who are 14 or so who listen to prog (most of them think they're superior to everyone, also...). ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 15:47
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oh boy, you guys from spanish america cry over nothing. If Cumbia, Samba and traditional genres of music alike were the only problem, along with the americanized raggaeton, the problem would have been a pain in the ass, but still small. I know, because in my home state i have the same problem. The problem is the trash that comes from other parts of the globe and other parts of my country. Take the 'funk carioca' and its sub genres, the horrible pagode that was forced down our throats during the 90's along with the freaking terrible 'axé music', the damn techno brega and the Calipso, the incredible amount of horrible and uninspired 'MPB' artists of today, the painfully untalented 'artists' and 'musicians' that insist in destroy our lives making 'music' and, of course, the brazilian rappers, DJs, and techno DJs. Luckily Brazil is a big, great and fine land, where the abundance is enormous in both sides of the spectrum: there is an enormous amount of trash and a enormous amount of goodies.  And thats why i praise the Lord i was born here.-------------
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 15:58
I can't understand that 'superiority' feeling . . . .Seriously. OK, i gotta agree that some songs are absolutely ridiculous, but thats no reason to downgrade the whole genre. . . -------------
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 16:25
Who said that its' bad to have fun. What I said was that TEENS FOLLOW FASHION and THEY GET CLOSE MINDED AT CAUSE OF MAINSTREAM AND FASHION. I love to dance and have fun with music. And not because my friends don't like my music I won't be their friends, but I sometimes get angry when they just wanna play that music to show girls that they're "updated to fashion" You said that I felt superior, even though not directly, in a subtle way. I don't feel superior, sometimes I feel the opposite, I feel like I'm the only dumb teen boy that listens to 20 min music and not listening to dance music all day. Hope I've been clear enough. |
Posted By: soggybomb
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 16:56
No (at least not completely). I am 16 and my friends and I all listen to prog in all senses of the word (noticed a lot of debates about that here). Whether it be the classic art rock guys from the 70's to progressive metal to experimental music to jazz fusion, we enjoy it all. ------------- Without music life would be a mistake. ~Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche |
Posted By: Wade
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 17:51
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To answer your question, no.
However, my generation has it's own "art" music, just as prog was the art music of the '70s, and this is why many kids my age don't listen to classic prog.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 18:33
Yes. The youth of today only knows about Lil' Wayne. Absolutely 100% of all the world prog-lovers are members of PA... ------------- 
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Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 18:38
| There's a poll here somewhere that shows that the vast majority of people on this website are "young people". |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 19:02
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i think prog is kind of hip right now. its cool to know obscure, artsy bands. bands like the mars volta and radiohead, though they arnt the most progressive band ever, are becoming more and more popular. people are experimenting. bands are experimenting. i think that close to 3/4 of the people i know enjoy this style of at least semi progressive music much more than hip/hop rap etc. and i think that this is a growing trend. so no. fear not!!!i wasnt into prog at 14. or 15. or 16. most people aren't. thats not new. but its getting to the point where that is changing. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 19:30
that's mainly because young people don't know THAT MUCH of Prog and this Site is very helpful. For the older guys(no offense) it's a chat room, of course, they discover new bands, etc, but they're not NEW at this. Young people mostly are new. |
Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 19:34
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Posted By: OzzProg
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 19:41
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I was literally raised on prog rock. My mom worshiped Yes, and my dad
would sell his soul to go see Pink Floyd. My earliest memory is sitting
in our car, listening to Echoes on a cassette, and I loved it (I got
scared in the screechy middle part :P) I am now 16, and over the last good 4 years, I have established myself a good prog collection. I would like to point out, that many people do like prog, but do not even realize that what they are listening to is in fact Prog. People are stubborn, Example: Me: Listen to this -5 seconds later, after not even trying to listen- Kid: Bleck, don't like this "prog", but you should definitely listen to Pink Floyd, they rock! And Roundabout is a kick ass song Me: Slaps head. -------------  |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 19:53
You start saying something and finish saying another thing. First you say that you know more than older people but at the end you say the older people(mostly) don't listen to new prog. And for what you said at the end, I would care a damn if the old one stays with the 70's and 60's, I think it's even better in some ocassions. To not listen to new prog doesn't mean you don't know about prog, or that you know less. I'm telling this at cause of my father, which he WAS a Prog Lover in the 70's, unluckily he didn't have lot of money and didn't live in a place where all the records were there, ask Ivan(Melgar) to tell you about Peru in those times. Also much of Prog Heads will agree that the Best Prog is in the 70's. And I wouldn't consider it close-minded, just a way to play safe. And BTW, in the 70's there's a really good bunch of bands to be discovered. As you may notice, I completely disagree of what you said. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 19:59
The conversation is understandable but could have been a little better :P I agree, but that's really a low percent, we must both agree on that, right? When I started listening to Prog at age of 12 or 11, I didn't know that what I was listening was 'Prog', and very well your conversation describes. I listened to Yes and Pink Floyd mainly, but I really couldn't see what was so AWSOME about their music as I know now. It was just different music that attracted me with some kind of magnet and well see me now, a Consumed,14 year old boy, by Prog(Music in general) |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 20:04
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These kids with their torn jeans and leather jackets can just go back
to the godless Europe where they came from. Just yesterday I was trying
to get a prescription of medical cocaine filled at the local drugstore,
when I was suddenly accosted from behind by two of these gangster
hoodlums. I turned around and saw them with their long godforsaken
barbarian hair and was just scared to death. I felt my heart get tense
and I stumbled, as I had forgotten to grab my solid ivory cane to whip
these young punks with. They grabbed my cane and advanced on me, but I
think I passed out. It was the good Lord sparing me the pain of being
beaten by these gangsters while conscious. I woke up in the carriage as
it pulled up to my plantation, thanked the driver, and settled down for
a nice spot of laudanum. It was all I could do after the ordeal to get
my nerves again. I immediately went to our telegraph room and sent a
message to my wife Judith in Newport; it's not even safe to be out at
daylight with these rabble-rousers mucking around unchecked! Hrumph! ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 20:18
 You just won 10 internets, my dear sir. It is just sad that this kind of riff-raff is at loose here in the new world, right my dear friend? -------------
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 20:38
You just won 10 internets, my dear sir. It is just sad that this kind of riff-raff is at loose here in the new world, right my dear friend? -------------
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Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 21:50
Them: 70s
Me: 70s + 80s + 90s + 00 = a lot more!
That's just he impression I'm getting when talking to ppl in real life and when reading reviews on the site which are like, "this isn't prog, I lament the good old days when we had Genesis. that was prog! what is this stuff? it doesn't even change time signatures!"
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 22:02
When I pointed out that we didn't know THAT MUCH, I said later that the majority were people who were NEW to the Genre. Oh BTW, good for you knowing more than an old-expierenced guy who lived those years and went to to those concerts 
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 22:10
| I guess it all depends how CURIOUS you are about different musical genres. The majority of people will always be listening to mainstream music, whether they're 15 or 55! But there's lots of people eager to try different musical genres. Suppose you buy (or steal or borrow) one of those books entitled 1000 RECORDS YOU'VE GOT TO HEAR BEFORE YOU DIE. They can be highly informative and stimulating. And usually several prog albums are included, e.g. CLOSE TO THE EDGE, FOXTROT, LARKS' TONGUES... Such books are another gateway through which tomorrow's curious 14-year old may reach the hallowed halls (and slippery alleyways) of Prog. |
Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 23:09
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 04:45
I have mixed feelings about this. I hope most of these people get into prog because they understand it and appreciate it, not because listening to obscure music makes them feel "hip". I guess that by making a post like this, I might myself be falling into that very pitfall of treating music like some sort of yuppie status symbol  ... but it's not an unknown phenomenon that rather "high concept" bands feel they're throwing pearls before swine when they become popular. Also, when a genre becomes a fad it risks becoming oversaturated with substandard bands getting record deals and wide distribution because their style has suddenly become easy to market. I know this has happened with glam rock in the seventies+eighties, grunge in the nineties and retro-rock here in the 21st century (okay that's not really a genre but still a useful category) so it's not just mindless snobbery on my part. Like with what I mentioned, too, it's neither unthinkable that these new prog fans will lose interest when the "next big thing" comes around and it'll be the late seventies all over again.Fortunately, from your choice of words it looks like many people one might call "bandwagon-jumpers" or "Johnny-come-latelies" - or at least the ones you know  - develop an actual appreciation for prog as in one beyond it being fashionable or because they think it's "funny". If I seem somewhat ignorant of what's going on in prog right now, I'll admit to this being very much the case as I'm more interested in checking out those of the classics I'm not familiar with yet.  Oh, and Radiohead might be artsy, but obscure is the last word I would use to describe a band popular enough to have headlined this year's Roskilde Festival.  |
Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 09:12
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If youngsters come to prog I say yes but why?If it's only for music sake,it's great but if they were to do so
for fashion it would be such a shame.I'm not here to judge younger people(moreover I'm only 31) but I
ask myself if their interest in prog will last.To be honest I really got into into prog at almost 23 (through
King Crimson,Magma and Mahavishnu Orchestra) but I feel entitled to say I've always been prepared
for prog thanks to my tastes(movies,reading,vintage comic books,science fiction).Actually I just needed
ignition,it happened 2 times:discovering Jimi Hendrix and a concert by Magma in 1999.Prog never comes
easily into one's brain and it always will be the same since good music can't resist MTV sirens call but I must admit that I would be happy if more people listened to prog.By the way,it's not only about teenagers
since some friends of my age keep saying that prog is too complex,selfish and ludicrous(always the same cliché!),making fun of my passion for Out of focus,Kalakacra.....One has to deserve prog and prog must be
true to itself! ------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world of searchers with the help from crimson king |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 10:36
A question: How popular are Magma in France? In Denmark they're total unknowns, but I know that a lot of Danish rock bands (even those who sing in English!) aren't too famous outside Scandinavia so it wouldn't be surprised that Magma are at least well-known in their native country. |
Posted By: ziggystardust360
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 10:55
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Wow,sorry everyone for this idiotic question,I stand corrected.But corrected in a good way.Long Live Prog! ------------- ''I always had the repulsive need to be something other than human''-David Bowie |
Posted By: Thierry
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 11:04
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I'm afraid to say that in Europe (at least in France, The Netherlands, Switzerland, Spain) where my band - Silver Lining - played (as guest or during festivals), the public is between 25-60. No teenagers then. Same situation in Italy.
The problem is that they listen to what they can hear on the radio and see on TV: mainly R&B, Rap, easy listening music, commercial pop... They are not rich enough to buy other CDs and they have to buy video games too!
Maybe they are not curious enough too? ------------- Progressively yours, Thierry http://aciddragon.eu |
Posted By: Thierry
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 11:15
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As for Magma. They're known by specialists. Prog and jazz fans. Older than 30 years old...
A cult band drawing about 200 persons at each concert. ------------- Progressively yours, Thierry http://aciddragon.eu |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 12:54
Okay, thanks then... makes it a bit surprising they would serve as a gateway band!  |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 15:57
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Prog can be hip, if you think about. A recent development in the hipster world is the "obscure hipster" who is usually into lesser-known music and more "obscure" stuff than your average hipster. For example, they could still like hip bands like Interpol, The Strokes, The Killers, and Feist, but also listen to things like Wolves in the Throne Room, Pelican, Isis, and Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. They wear artsy graphic t-shirts and necklaces with symbols of exotic religions and usually have long hair. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 16:00
I didnt say radiohead were obscure, every kid and their brother knows about radiohead. but its not "mainstream" per say (though it is) its not rap, hip hop, R&B, not what the original poster was talking about. i hope it didnt sound like the people i know were bandwagon'ers, i dont think i came across that way. i said they enjoyed it. they didnt just listen to it to be popular and hip. they like it genuinely and have introduced me to some really great bands (the animal collective, deerhunter, hella, yakuza, drive like jehu) The internet is changing things. its bringing music to the masses in completely different ways. where before you had to research a band extensively, or maybe even just through word of mouth try and discover something new then go about the process of hunting down the CD if it even exists outside of a foreign country, now you have myspace and sites like PA delivering you instantaneously thousands of bands that you can then immediately go and download in the span of 5 minutes their entire discography. . . its making it easy to know these bands, to know progressive music. Wrong choice of words i guess and maybe im changing my mind from my original post but i think you have to admit that artsy music and in turn progressive music is becoming more and more popular. the prog circles are expanding. just look at this site. its growing and it is mostly due to the younger members. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 16:08
this was one of the top image results or "hipster" in google.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 16:36
What is it about Wolves in the Throne Room that endears them to the generically alternative crowd, who generally don't care much about that particular type of metal? The band in question having a really long name, or being a bunch of greenies? |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 16:41
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The naive part of me wants to say that they're all kids who genuinely enjoy the music, but another part of me wants to agree with you on the greenie issue. But then again, I don't know... I'm kind of a hipster and I love atmospheric black metal.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 16:41
Actually, you did. Your exact words were its cool to know obscure, artsy bands. bands like the mars volta and radiohead, though they arnt the most progressive band ever, are becoming more and more popular. Typing that would make no sense if your intent wasn't to say that The Mars Volta and Radiohead were obscure and artsy.
Good to hear then. 
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Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 16:44
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Prog is actually rather hip....or some of it at least. I frequent an indie forum and many prog bands are celebrated, such as all of krautrock, King Crimson, Yes, even Genesis to a lesser degree. There's definitely a lot of prog under the surface and yes there are many kids who love more art-rock minded indie bands (Animal Collective, Yeasayer, Menomena, TV on the Radio, the list goes on) so progressive music is far from dead in my generation.
But then again, the reggaeton craze is very dead up here -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 16:55
A few years ago I visited a concert by a Dutch 70-77 Genesis tribute band, among the visitors were 3 16-17 old guys who knew every song and they let us know, incredible. And during the gigs I witnessed from Anekdoten, The Dutch Symforce Festival and a Dutch triple progrock bands festival I noticed lots of young progheads  To me it seems that nowadays progrock is a kind of vivid underground scene, joined by younger people who are fed up with the commercial pop and rock music, supported by jeans and alcohol multinationals who try to brainwash you buying their articles instead of developping a serious adventure to discover good music 
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 16:58
One thing's for certain: It is rather odd that a rather typical black metal act - and an obscure one at that - is becoming popular with people who otherwise don't really like that genre. It's pretty obvious that there are extra-musical factors at play here. |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 17:02
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It seems as if Prog had become so obscure, that it went full circle and now it's getting respect again. Don't look for it with mainstream audiences -- that wasn't even the case in the 70's. But as far as an underground movement goes, I think it gained credibility amongst the "hip", if for no other reason than the genre continued to exist even as it wallows in obscurity...So, it's not like they can sneer at it because people are only doing it for the money, or because it supports large corporate record labels... But that theory only works for the youth who seek out the unpopular, which has always been the essence of underground music... Just today I saw an ad on Craigslist of a band looking for members - they described it as Prog/Punk. Those two genres were certainly mutually exclusive in the 70's! ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 17:10
I think this is much simpler: Prog's usually (but not always) very self-consciously artsy so it has a natural appeal to people who have a very "It's... THE ARTS!" approach to life.
Not if you're Hawkwind. |
Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 18:29
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My kids are 15 and 18. Here's a short list of bands they like from the prog world. I'll let the list speak for itself. Opeth
Flower Kings
Porcupine Tree
Eloy
Yes
Nektar
Ozric Tentacles
Pink Floyd
Hawkwind
Sleepytime Gorilla Museum
Pelican
Kingfisher Sky
Dream Theater
Symphony X
Pineapple Thief
Meshuggah
Radiohead
Black Bonzo
Wicked Minds
Mellow Candle
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Posted By: AmericanKhatru
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 18:31
I share your sentiment and am hopefully going to prove you at least slightly wrong. I am going into my sophomore year in high school, and have turned into an absolute Yeshead. (I can partially thank my dad on this one). I fully consider Tales From Topographic Oceans to be the greatest prog album ever made, and my only regret is that I wasn't alive in the 70's so I missed out on all the magic. Talk about getting to the party 25 years too late. It's only recently that a friend of my dad's got me interested in modern prog. Mainly Dream Theater and Spock's Beard, but hey, it's hard after starting off with Yes.
I've also managed to get some of my friends interested in prog. They're taking up guitar, and there's nothing like letting them hear Steve Howe shred on Yours Is No Disgrace or beautify a piece like Sketches in the Sun. I've always believed that prog is musician's music, and it's not hard to get them interested so long as the quality is good. So, to answer your question, I would have to say no. It all depends on where you look.
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Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 18:48
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I'm also 15 years old, and I'm friends with a group of 7 or 8 friends who love prog in my school. We go to shows together, share music, a few of us are even in a Prog Metal band together. I will admit that when we go to shows like: Dream Theater, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Opeth....there aren't many teenagers there other than us.
I think that we're among a few teenagers in the world that are privelaged to know of all this music, and we're telling more people about it, they're telling more people. If anything the numbers are increasing, not decreasing. ------------- 
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 20:04
Them: 70s
Me: 70s + 80s + 90s + 00 = a lot more!
That's just he impression I'm getting when talking to ppl in real life and when reading reviews on the site which are like, "this isn't prog, I lament the good old days when we had Genesis. that was prog! what is this stuff? it doesn't even change time signatures!" [/QUOTE]
I think you are wrong.How can you know more than a man who lived in the heydays of prog!!! Being part of the movement is not the same as having You Tube or E Mule. We have access to a lot more records , as an example I have more than 120 GB of music. But I'll have to live 300 years in order to listen to that.
There is no way you would know more than an 55 years old guy.
And besides , It doesn't matter if I am 21 , I belong to the old school of the 70's Extreme growling metal doesn't do it yor me.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 21:09
Interesting, get them some Talisma. Possibly, Jonas Hellborg Art Metal, too. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: ziggystardust360
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 21:15
Once again,I stand corrected. ------------- ''I always had the repulsive need to be something other than human''-David Bowie |
Posted By: drkam6
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 23:08
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First of all, I'm very happy to read your posting. Indeed, pretty much no teens are into progressive stuff. Today's youth are in total limbo. For a while during the 90's there were sparks of linking back to prog (i.e. Mercury Rev, Porcupine Tree) but nowadays the "American Idol" generation does not care at all - at all indeed - about true art. So I praise your interest, keep up the spark! ------------- "The path is clear, though no eyes can see; The course laid down long before" |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 01:36
Youth culture changes very little, even with the internet.
I completely disagree, prog and prog-esque music is hugely popular through the rise of indie. Have you noticed that The Mars Volta are on a major label? That says quite a bit in my mind. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 01:59
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indie music couldnt be what it is today without the internet. at least, i highly doubt it.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 02:20
I completely agree. But his point was that today's generation has a radically different attitude than others because they are infected by American Idol, and that's not true. Modern society is very different in many ways, sure, but people don't fundamentally change. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 03:48
Service Unavailable |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 04:01
you're absolutely right.. to assume because a TV show is hugely popular it infects the minds and tastes of the majority young people is absurd, presumptuous and a little insulting.. and all generations have their pablum for the masses and another thing, just watching a friggin TV show does not define you, for Chrissake |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 05:45
| I remember being into the prog mainstays (the usuals Yes, Genesis, ELP etc,) when I was a teen, about 10 years ago. No one knew of those bands, but thanks to the net I believe prog is increasing in popularity, take for example Magma, i'd say 90% of their fans have only discovered them in the last decade because of the net. I believe thats why bands have either reformed: such as Comus, VDGG, Magma or else have returned to their more proggy roots eg Steve Hackett, because through the net artists and music companies have realised there is a viable market for progressive rock. Think about it, how on earth did Mars Volta, and Coheed and Cambria get away with songs over 20 minutes, a few years earlier their labels would have tried to drop them, but they have gotten away with it because thanks to the net prog can spread without the filters of mass media blocking it, and labels and artists together have found out the size and popularity of the market. Also the negative stigma surrounding prog has eroded over the last few years. |
Posted By: LeInsomniac
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 07:08
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Well, I only started to hear prog with my 19's (I'm 21) but I already know all sub genres of prog (at least I've dwelled into them and tried to get the albums form the best bands of each sub-genre so I could expand my mind) and whenever I have a discussion with my father (he's 50 and a Jazz musician) about that nowadays there's great prog and doing new stuff, he argues that it isnt. He says that in the seventies they made it all, and that nowadays its only a retro-renewal and that essentially its the same thing but with a new form. He says that he cant hear it more, cause its the same. I tell him that he's being close minded and he tells me that he hears with the ear of a musician and I don't, and that I'm still amazed with all prog has to offer, while he's already been there. I show him Sleepytime Gorilla Museum or Mr.Bungle and he doesnt shiver (and says its too much agressive, I argue the contrary saying that although it might be more agressive, doesnt mean the artistic and complex form isnt there). He shows me John Coltrane, and I shut up. Kids however in Portugal dont give a rat's ass for prog; yes there is a prog community here (with the Gouveia art-rock festival showing that) but its mainly for prog-metal fans who hear Opeth (I love them) Dream Theater (I respect them) PoS (I don't know them) Estradasphere (I kinda like them) and Tool and The Mars Volta (I love them) but they dont know groups like King Crimson or Gentle Giant, and dont know theyre importance for rock music in general. Oh well... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/LeInsomniac/?chartstyle=volta"> 
Happy Family One Hand Clap, Four Went On But None Came Back |
Posted By: Nil Recurring
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 08:16
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I'm 20 years old and I'm listening to prog (both classic and modern) for like 4 years now. And that's not only me but the bigger part of my friends are also listening to prog. The simpel mainstream music can't excist forever because eventually people get bored of it. We saw that with punk, metal, grunge and it wil evantually also be like that with hiphop, the kaiser chiefs-like rock and nowadays dance music. I think it's kind of a spiral and in the near future people will turn to prog again. Not bands like opeth or mesuggah but think of porcupine tree or the pineapple thief, bands that not truly prog, but are certainly progressive in nature. When I look at myself when I was 12 or something like this I was really into bands like linkin park or nirvana. But after a few years I was tired of hearing always the same structures in every song (though I still think nirvana kicks ass).So I wanted something more experimental and came across tool, king crimson etc. I see more and more teenagers are moving in this direction. Maybe we are the first of a new generation of real music lovers. And you also see that bands like porcupine tree or dream theater getting more and more known in the mainstream rock audiences. Pluss on the other side you also see that bands like korn and linkin park heading to a more 'proggy' sound altough it's still far away from the real thing of course. (for excemple korn recording an album with terry bozzio). I think we have to go to the lowest point musically speaking before we go back to higher levels again and we have to agree that now the level can't get anymore lower or else it will be just one tone with one word repeated for 2 minutes ------------- Music is no entertainment.. music is art! thread it that way |
Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 09:43
I've never heard Talisma so I gave them a listen. Sweet!
 I'll have to get their music for me too. My son advised that I should have put Caravan on the short list. He loves "Golf Girl".  Thanks for the sugestions. |
Posted By: hdfisch
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 10:13
I am 47 and I like to listen to the old stuff (but not exclusively Yes and Genesis) as much as I do to newer prog/post metal stuff. But actually Coldplay is not really a good example I would say. I find them boring and commercial!
------------- To be prog or not to be, that's not the question! Sillyam Likesbeer |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 10:52
This I think is rather sad, really, and one of the reasons I earlier in this thread was suspicious of the people getting into prog today because it's become "hip" again and how real their appreciation was. It just feels wrong to me that someone can like a genre of music without having some active interest in its history. |
Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 11:28
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Agree completely. Despite often in weekends I listen to music just to 'have fun', to go dancing, etc, the real thing is when I listen to music at my home (Prog, Hard Rock, Thrash Metal, Classic Rock, Fusion, etc, etc). But luckily I have five (FIVE!) friends who are into this kind of music (not counting all the other ones who are into Classic Rock, 60s, 70s music in general), of whom 3 were introduced by me to this wonderful musical world. Good for you, cacho! When I was your age I was a mad Metallica fan (still these days, but not that much), the first band I ever bought a CD from (that CD is....... well..... St.Anger)! I think it's a good album though.------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Barla/?chartstyle=LastfmMyspace">  
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Posted By: AmericanKhatru
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 16:30
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Somebody brought this up, but I can't remember who it was. I think mainstream music today is going to burn itself out. I mean, how long can you listen to the same 5 chord progression and the eerily similar singers before you start to wonder "is there anything else out there?" One of the biggest factors in the long term success of prog (in my opinion) is the fact that the music evolves so much, even over the course of a single song, that it becomes virtually impossible to be repetitive. The sky's the limit to what you can do with it. It also helps that critics pretty much ignore prog now as opposed to panning it everyday. And certainly the Internet and things like YouTube, MySpace etc. allow new artists to reach a fan base on an international level. This kind of unparalleled access is what's going to keep prog going and probably connect with the generations down the road. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 17:38
There's an Art Metal streaming track on this site, too! 'Twas the streaming Talisma on here that got me hooked. I gave it a try and had to pick my jaw off the floor. Should warn you that I found it a little hard to figure out how to order off the web site that sells them, may have just been me. Turning on people to new music and discovering new prog myself has been what's kept me into it since I was in my teens more than a few years ago. It really never gets old. Oddly enough I didn't get into Caravan until I saw them on tour in 2002 with Nektar. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 18:55
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I hate going to a Porcupine Tree show and having to jostle with all those 15-20 year olds. And if I ever get that 18 year old who bought the last Mars Volta T-shirt at Spin-It, I'll have more than a talk with him. OH, and by the way, who are these teenagers who think that Tool is prog ? Tool wasn't around in the 70s, eh. God, why don't they listen to their own music. Oh, and btw , judging the "vitality" of any musical genre simply by your peer group(s) can be severely skewed. If death metal was the music of choice in your circle of friends would that really be proof that death metal is the overwhelming choice of music fans; or would you rather check sales charts, concert draws and other such measures of "success" ? When I was in my early 20s, Accept /Motorhead/Krokus and other hard rock acts were most of what we listened to in my 'Gang". Yet most of our other friends were into Foreigner (put something heavy on, man, like Foreigner . ????), Triumph and other chart dwellers. I also listened to Gary Numan, Dire Straits, Paul Simon, the Georgia Satellites. And eventually got my "gang" into them also (Apart from Gary Numan) ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 20:28
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I rarely think that progheads today are mostly young people; nevertheless I live in a zone where prog isn't that well known as in Europe or in the USA; anyway, logic as it seems, youth are more exposed to genres where prog meets another more mainstream-related styles, like metal (Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation) or alternative rock (Porcupine Tree, Mars Volta). It has its pros and cons, but they are, for better or for worse, useful links to begin to understand what prog is (or was, if you wish). Of course I'm talking about a certain average. Peace. ------------- The best you can is good enough... |
Posted By: Luke. J
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 00:45
| Maybe not most prog fans are young people, but the young people use the internet more than the first two generations now do (the fans from 70's and 80's). Those young people just show it more, they attend concerts, sometimes wear shirts with symbols of their favourite bands, while the older ones just listen to the music. To be honest, I find it rare to see people above the age of 35 on concerts, beside it is a concert of a band that once was big and now does reunion tours (Led Zep anyone?) |
Posted By: fire adept
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 04:06
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16 here and a huge Prog fan. I'm pretty much the only of my kind around my area, don't feel alone guys! lol
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http://www.last.fm/user/ZachFireAdept07/ |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 09:47
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Is anybody familiar with the "boy band" Mindwalk Blvd? They are a progressive rock trio from Massachusetts. Two of them are 16 and the drummer is age 12. They may be additional bearers of the prog torch. Check them out if you haven't already.
http://mindwalkband.com/ - http://mindwalkband.com/
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=82856755 - http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=82856755
------------- 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 11:07
Just last Summer I attended the Genesis concert at the Big O and they played roughly half in half new and old compositions and the younger people were baffled and after the show. I even heard some younger people commenting that they didn`recognize half the songs. So my point is that prog is dead as Elvis. Don`t get me wrong, I`m not knocking any of these bands but man they ain`t prog. ------------- |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 11:11
You find it rare to see anyone above the age of 35 at concerts. I guess you haven`t been to Montréal lately. ------------- |
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 12:21
Very accurate list, I am also 15 and listen to most of those artists.-------------
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Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 12:25
I feel the opposite about the concert attendance. Most of the prog shows me and my friends go to (Dream Theater, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Rush)..most of the people are above the age of 35...sure there are a good amount of people in their 20's you could say, but normally we're some of the very, very, very, very, very few that are 14-16 years of old. -------------
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Posted By: reality
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 20:53
Half of those bands are not even really "Prog" bands; even though they are on this site a lot of them either refuse to be labeled "Prog" (Porcupine Tree etc...) claim not to be influenced by "Prog" (Sigur Ros etc...) or are not considered "Prog" by most of the world partly because they came from a totally different influence (most Tech Metal, Post Rock, Post Metal and a lot of so called Progressive Metal - you do not see Dream Theater doing to many King Crimson covers - who by the way deny they are "Prog" themselves). What is keeping "Prog" alive are bands with minimal interest or influence from the "Prog" movement being hijacked into the "Prog" world to make it look fresh. The real "Prog Metal" bands that keep and fuse the "Prog" movements traditions with metal are not breaking new ground (many posts on that here) but rehashing an already codified genre. This maybe confusing for all the newbies but for the billionth time Big (P) Progressive and small (p) progressive are two different concepts and only one applies here: Big (P) the proper noun for the movement and all bands that are directly influenced by its specific musicality and style. Big (P) Progressive is also not to be confused with associative movements at the same time (Krautrock, Canterbury, Jazz Fusion etc...) who were erroneously put under the same banner. Under the popular (to the newbie) term small (p) progressive any band with any sort of creativity could be argued as progressive, does not mean they are "Prog"; and since small (p) progressive is so subjective and impossible to prove it is extremely pointless. The use of this term as a connector to the "Progressive Rock" movement or any band that has emerged from such is highly irresponsible and downright revisionist history! |
Posted By: reality
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 20:59
Hey, you beat me to it... Bravo for speaking the truth
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Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 21:16
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^^^
well in that case Prog can die a slow painfull death for all I care because progressive rock will live on. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: reality
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 22:07
You obviously did not get what we were talking about.. but thats O.K as there is really no such thing as small (p) progressive rock you can live in that fruitless fantasy, but we were discussing the real world. "Prog", "Progressive Rock" is dead (which again does not mean what you think it means). It is still around physically of course but as a fresh medium it is not. That is where the term Dinosaur comes from to describe the genre, yes it actually means like it sounds. Just like "Disco" is a dead movement "Prog" is a dead movement, but just like there may be Disco bands still around, they and their "Prog" counterparts are not breaking new ground just enhancing old territory. If we used your reasoning across the musical board the band "New Order" would be considered Disco and so would later Pink Floyd because of Disco's influence on them. You see how I am clutching at straws to try to make that work. Silly right? But that is exactly how silly people look when they try to say "Prog" is not dead and try to claim new fresh bands as "Prog" when there is no valid reason to do so. Like I said, it is irresponsible and bad, very bad revisionist history! And as for small (p) progressive, where were you when we had the hundred conversations about how it was an illogical and useless term, not applicable to the music? |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 22:30
So me question to you is...Why are you even here?
Most history is revisionist, so whatever. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 22:56
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Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 00:12
I must sound horrible saying this than but I guess I just don't give a f**k about prog then, I simply like music that progresses. Sure, I love Yes and Genesis. But I love Tool and Opeth more. I guess if Tool isn't prog then I like Tool more than Prog, and I can be ok with that. Its not important to me that this site have only prog bands, rather I enjoy how I can use the site to find good music that I enjoy, regardless if its Prog or if it is not. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 00:15
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^^^
and I am not interested in arguing about wether progressive is an accurate term, terms are rarely accurate and only have the meanings that we choose to give them. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 00:15
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^^^
and I am not interested in arguing about wether progressive is an accurate term, terms are rarely accurate and only have the meanings that we choose to give them. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Onslaught
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 00:24
| hey im 15 and i love prog aha. ive been listen to prog half of my life for my short existence... |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 00:49
I have to agree here somewhat. When I went to see Dream Theater, there were lots of people in their late 20s, even late 30s, people that were most likely people that became fans of Dream Theater when they were teens when DT released their first few albums. I went with a group of a people between 16 and 19, and while we were standing in line there were more people in their 20s/30s standing around us then there were people around my age. ------------- 
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 14:26
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Repeating ad nauseum - judging the "success" or "existence" of anything based on the knowledge /awareness of one's peer group is not proof of anything. And over the next week , do a rough survey - ask people you know (please ensure some variables such as age, taste, education, sex blue/white collar and whatever else you can to give a broad view) who topped last week's singles/album chart. Heck , ask who the biggest concert was so far this year ? Even give them this clue JBJ. Marvel at how you even didn't know or care about this fact. Then note how very few people outside of the fan base even care. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Imadofus
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 17:40
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Yeah, if we refuse to consider prog anything that it's different from Genesis or Yes, then yeah, prog is dying.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Imadofus - last.fm |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 20:53
\And then there are those who say it's not prog anymore if it sounds like genesis or yes ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Imadofus
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 21:04
Yeah, proggers are weird ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Imadofus - last.fm |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 23:37
I think the only solution is to have everybody stop talking about what prog is or is not. If you don't like the way things are here, nobody is forcing you to come anymore. ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 23:42
 ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 12:07
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Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllll!
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 12:13
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Katy Perry, Chris Brown, Ne-Yo, Metro Station, Estelle, the Plies, Sugarland, Shwayze, Secondhand Serenade, V.I.C. ... Without google-cheating, please tell me what these have in common. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |