Canada, oh Canada...

The only answer that respects even minimally the concept of democracy is that it's up to Canadians to decide the policies of their government. 

Canida can do what ever it wants, its up to america to get americans to serve, if canada wants to help so be it, if not i'm sure it wouldent be too much a streach to wall off both our borders.

Hirgwath wrote:   WinterLight wrote: The only answer that respects even minimally the concept of democracy is that it's up to Canadians to decide the policies of their government.  I'm not disagreeing with you, but another important feature of any democracy is openness to immigrants and some pluralism. While I agree that "openness to immigrants" and "pluralism" are general desiderata, I don't think that it's a necessary criterion of a democratic state.  In any case, my original point is that it is not for the US to decide--it's a decision for Canadians to make. That said, I want to point out that draft dodgers (during the Vietnam era, especially) were not cowards. The vast majority of them wanted no part in a war that they felt was based on shaky moral ground. They fled because of their beliefs. I agree completely with what you said.  It is scandalous the way the US media portrays them as selfish, craven, middle-class brats.  Although many came from relatively privileged backgrounds (compared to the Vietnamese who were to be slaughtered), they resisted conscription out of commitment to principles. And one of the great features of both Canada and the US is that we have always accepted people who are fleeing because their former society did not tolerate their beliefs. I can't speak intelligently about Canada, but that's certainly not the case for the US:  Washington has opened and closed its gates as to its benefit.

^Good point, debrewguy, but you have to admit, they *could* have anticipated fighting a war that was based on  "just war" theory, rather than a preemptive strike.

Hirgwath wrote: ^Good point, debrewguy, but you have to admit, they *could* have anticipated fighting a war that was based on  "just war" theory, rather than a preemptive strike.

I do believe that this option is not available when you sign up. So it's all or nothing.

Hirgwath wrote: Legally or morally? Legally you're obviously correct, but morally I don't see how it matters. Remember, America had never self-consciously engaged in preemptive war before now.

Morally speaking, you're signing up with an organization whose existence is based on the fact that it will fight in the conflicts and wars deemed necessary by the government.
Again, I believe that there is no exemption listed on your enrollment that you can check off.
And just to repeat myself, I do not, and have not ever, supported the Iraq war. I do support the war in Afghanistan, however.

Well we just sent a couple of deserters back just this week. These guys volunteered and in exchange for a coollege education they had to serve 5 years if I`m not mistaken. I served in the military myself and found myself in some hot spots. I mean what are you joining up for ? The military is not a country club and perhaps one the most unfair jobs going regardless of what you do. The current slogan for recruiting in Canada for the three services is Join The Fight. That`s what you`re joining up for to fight. And if you don`t want to fight don`t join. So I would say send them back and let the Americans deal with these bums.

As far as Vietnam, the dumbest war in history, goes that was different. Some guys came to Canada some went to Sweden and other European countries. I would say in that circumstance we should give them asylum. My cousin who is Canadian did two tours in Vietnam flying Hueys got shot down a few times. So here we are giving Americans refuge while our boys are volunteering while their boys are running scared to Canada. I don`t have the exact figure but quite a few Canadians fought with American forces in Vietnam an many didn`t come back.

Well these particular guys enlisted after 911. I think the problem with these guys volunteering is that they don`t really understand the implications of being in the US military particularily combat roles such as the infantry or as a gunship or fighter pilot the chances are that you are going to be sent to some hot spot these days.  Because the American forces are beginning to be spread rather thin they need all the guys they can get and the recruiters are not being as selective and neglect to properly inform these young men and women about exactly what they`re getting themselves into. For many of these young people who have limited education I guess joining the service is better than working at a McJob or no job at all. It`s kind of sad they go over to Iraq or Afghanistan and get killed or maimed for life and they`re no more than 19 20 years old. But then again war has always been a young man`s game. Unfortunately since the American Civil War the Americans have traditionally taken heavy losses.

On the other hand the Canadians I have talked to coming back from Afghanistan have a clearer picture of what the freak is going on. We also have a lot of reservists over there who have taken leave from their civy jobs to go over and are attached to  the Princess Pats, Royal 22nd, 2 RCR or a support unit and many have been casualties. We have a different minset than the Americans and are generally better trained and informed. Nothing against the Americans here but this is a fact.

well until recently many European countries had conscription but I think that this has been discontinued in many countries. I had a high school buddy that had to go and do his time as a radar technician in the Swedish Air Force. I think Switzerland still maintains a part-time army and air force with just a handful of regular units. I`ve met a few Swiss Air pilots and they all had to fly jets for the Flugwaffe twice a year. I have this friend from Germany who is now anexecutive chef in a large hotel who got his cooking papers serving in the German Army. Of course he had to go through basic training with all the other guys. I guess if you play your cards right the military can work for you. It worked for me.