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TheProgtologist View Drop Down
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 15:34
Metallica's possible inclusion was decided by M@x,and he very emphatically said NO.So any dicussion about the addition of Metallica is pointless,because it will never happen.


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Points: 1170 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 12:50
It would be weird seeing "Turbo" here. Although it would be even weirder and more sickening to see "St. Anger"...
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Points: 35951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 12:31
Long thread, and I've barely skimmed it...

From a compositional/ structural viewpoint, and approach to making music, just how similar is Judas Priest to Prog?  How influenced was it by progressive rock?  Do they blend genres and take an adventurous approach to making music?  I seem to remember Judas Priest being considered quite groundbreaking and experimental in the early 80's, but since I wasn't into metal, I don't know.

I don't think paving the way for progressive metal should be enough (there is no proto-metal category), or even expanding musical horizons (being progressive).  I think it should similar attributes particular to progressive rock and metal.  I just wonder if this was more influential to metal generally than to Progressive Metal specifically.

I don't know about later albums or their career, but here's a little article I just found (I'll reprint an excerpt...)

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/5204515/review/6054044/metalogy

Quote When Ozzy Osbourne left Black Sabbath in 1979, the way was clear for a new heavyweight champ of metal. Enter Judas Priest (like Sabbath, from Birmingham, England), a quintet that had up to then released four anemically produced albums. That all changed with 1979's Hell Bent for Leather, a record that effectively removed metal's Seventies-era prog-rock flab. Songs such as the title track were compact, radio-ready blasts of fury that set the stage for every Eighties band from Motley Crue to Metallica.


Edited by Logan - April 23 2008 at 12:32
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 05:05
Originally posted by Squonkman Squonkman wrote:

Judas Priest as a prog band???? You have to be kidding. NO. That's absurd and ridiculous.
And therein lies the very crux of the problem with this way too generous profusion of "prog metal" bands on this site. Virtually anyone who ever performed a 3 chord riff and growled will be listed on here soon.
 
I think the problem lies with blind opinions such as this.
 
You could at least make your argument more direct and support your opinion with some reasoning rather than hurling around terms like "absurd" and "ridiculous".
 
Originally posted by tuxon tuxon wrote:

Proto-prog metal would be Prog related, as it is related to prog metal.
 
personally i think Judas prieast aren't prog, and I wouldn't consider them for prog-related also, but if it's really the case they are proto-prog metal, I think they are elidgable for Prog-Related.
 
of course the problem with that is it basically means that Metallica again come into the equation as they can surely be considered proto prog.
 
my personal opinion is Judas Priest is an early metal band, pionering the metal genre, and by doing so paving the way for proto-prog metal (Iron Maiden and Metallica and 80's glam metal), so for me it's a no, but if their influence on prog-metal is really significant (which i can't judge, because i like metal, but hardly ever listen to progressive metal) it can be considered for Prog Related.
 
I fail to see any reason for NOT including Priest in Prog-Related, as I think they did more than pave they way for Prog Metal, they opened the doors and stretched the boundaries. OK, like Metallica they over-simplified after a few albums - but so did Genesis Wink
 
Check out "One for the Road" (from "Rocka Rolla"); Rodger Bain (Black Sabbath)'s production is so much better than on "Sad Wings" - and the song happens to be in 5/4 for much of it; http://youtube.com/watch?v=3zJ_J0NQKaM&feature=related - OK, it's pretty much a single riff with a few stops and starts, but it's hardly standard hard rock/metal.
 
I also fail, as I always have, to see why Metallica are not Prog Metal, when they have released no less than 3 Prog Metal albums, one of which is definitive of the genre.
 
But that's another discussion entirely.


Edited by Certif1ed - April 23 2008 at 05:14
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Points: 5502 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2008 at 01:34
Proto-prog metal would be Prog related, as it is related to prog metal.
 
personally i think Judas prieast aren't prog, and I wouldn't consider them for prog-related also, but if it's really the case they are proto-prog metal, I think they are elidgable for Prog-Related.
 
of course the problem with that is it basically means that Metallica again come into the equation as they can surely be considered proto prog.
 
my personal opinion is Judas Priest is an early metal band, pionering the metal genre, and by doing so paving the way for proto-prog metal (Iron Maiden and Metallica and 80's glam metal), so for me it's a no, but if their influence on prog-metal is really significant (which i can't judge, because i like metal, but hardly ever listen to progressive metal) it can be considered for Prog Related.
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 23:12
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

I didn't think so either... not by what constisutes PM by todays standards of course.   but what may sort of throws the discussion off kilter is that .. at least for some including me till I sort of saw what PM was about and how you all are defining it...  those early early years.. were definitely metal.. or could easily be called metal... and were quite prog.  I do think Mark has a point... on the surface .. they were just as prog as a good many groups that occupy unquestioned spots here at the archives. ..such as Uriah Heep.
 
I think their early albums can be considered "proto prog metal",but we don't have that category here.


Edited by TheProgtologist - April 22 2008 at 23:13


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Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 23:03
I would say their output up until "Stained Class"  was quite progressive, although I wouldn´t say they are a Progressive Metal Band, but could easily fit in the same genre as Sabbath
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 22:30
I didn't think so either... not by what constisutes PM by todays standards of course.   but what may sort of throws the discussion off kilter is that .. at least for some including me till I sort of saw what PM was about and how you all are defining it...  those early early years.. were definitely metal.. or could easily be called metal... and were quite prog.  I do think Mark has a point... on the surface .. they were just as prog as a good many groups that occupy unquestioned spots here at the archives. ..such as Uriah Heep.
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 22:24
I simply don't think Judas Priest are prog metal in the slightest.Great heavy metal,and they probably influenced many of today's prog metal musicians,but I don't see them as PM.
 
 


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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 20:24
this discussion is (or has become) not about whether Priest should be considered a Prog band, but whether their music impacted other musicians who eventually developed true progessive metal

frankly I think Cert has a point even though I credit Maiden with a bigger influence on Voivod, Metallica's prog periods and bands as DT












Edited by Atavachron - April 22 2008 at 20:33
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Points: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 20:19
Judas Priest as a prog band???? You have to be kidding. NO. That's absurd and ridiculous.
And therein lies the very crux of the problem with this way too generous profusion of "prog metal" bands on this site. Virtually anyone who ever performed a 3 chord riff and growled will be listed on here soon.
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Points: 15745 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 18:22
Yep, THE BATTLE RAGES ON!
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 18:22
hahhaha..  me too... just put some in myself ....
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 18:22
^^ Love that one as well! Really need some Priest now LOL
Blargh
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 18:13
or this classic Mark hahhaha...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFx_kcypAGU

I'm no expert on Prog Metal...  and I'll leave it to them to say... but it sure as hell sounds like prog metal to me hahhah. Oh wait .. no keys or tron... it can't be prog LOL
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 18:11
what great old footage!  seeing them on The Old Grey Whistle Test is just too much.. akin to the Doors on Sullivan 

LOLLOL

wonderful
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 18:09
^^ I just love that song. And the band. Especially the 70s album, with my favourite being Sad Wings Of Destiny-Sin After Sin-Stained Class Embarrassed.

I don't have a problem with them being added, and I don't have a problem with a big Prog-Related section. I am however worried about the fact that those bands are given as much credibility as the prog bands on the site. Don't know how to solve that problem though...I also think that the P-R and P-P sections are great in for attracting people to the site, and thus help them discover that they like a lot of the "pure" prog bands. The battle rages on I guess.
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 18:01
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

But as a Proto-Prog metal band, they dot all the i's and cross all the t's - more so than Iron Maiden.

I'm not saying "If Maiden are here...", just pointing out that it would take a very long time to count the Prog Metal bands directly influenced by Priest (as opposed to indirect influence like, say, a particular Classical composer, where a PM band might quote a composer or write in the style for a few bars, but would never construct an entire piece that sounded like a classical composition).
 
"Rocka Rolla" is, to my ears at least, every bit as proggy as anything Uriah Heep released - just without the organ.


amen brother...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI0iX2q4pw8
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2008 at 17:19

But as a Proto-Prog metal band, they dot all the i's and cross all the t's - more so than Iron Maiden.

I'm not saying "If Maiden are here...", just pointing out that it would take a very long time to count the Prog Metal bands directly influenced by Priest (as opposed to indirect influence like, say, a particular Classical composer, where a PM band might quote a composer or write in the style for a few bars, but would never construct an entire piece that sounded like a classical composition).
 
"Rocka Rolla" is, to my ears at least, every bit as proggy as anything Uriah Heep released - just without the organ.
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Points: 4318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2008 at 00:57
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by cuncuna cuncuna wrote:

If this happens (and it will), David Bowie will... no, he'll probably just stay right where he is, swimming on lots of money...


that isn't exactly constructive ..and has been the problem with trying to discuss bands like this.  Those kind of statements.

First off.. for reasons already stated...  Judas Priest has a slight chance of being here and has nothing to do whatsoever with Bowie.


The problem of discussing Judas Priest is Judas Priest. Bowie is just a vehicle to say "¿you seriously consider Judas Priest and reject Bowie?". 
Now, I want to make this clear: I do not think David Bowie should be added. That goes also for Mercury Rev and other bands wich I won't list right now. Having said that, if someone says "Judas Priest", it forces me to reconsider my concepto of prog - prog related. And within that "acomodated" logic, David Bowie sounds more than reasonable.

On Judas Priest itself, I'm pretty sure that, if asked, they would laugh at the idea of being considered a prog band. Mercury Rev would react the same.


Edited by cuncuna - March 16 2008 at 12:28
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