Christian prog vs secular prog

profanatio wrote: I happen to be a christian

What "flavor" of ?

profanatio wrote: I despise mainstream christian music.

So do I...
it all sounds the same.  "Contemporary Christian Music" artists have no creative skills -

Oddly enough the very first verse in the bible teaches the doctrine of creativity (if one could call it that ). 

Most CCM artists just copy / paste all the sounds of secular pop songs then add anemic religious lyrics.  + Most are poor musicians to begin with.

profanatio wrote: there are actually christian prog bands.

Personal opinion...They aren't authentic Christians...and it's not authentic prog.

profanatio wrote: but I do know that no matter how much they glorify God lyrically, if I dont like the music I wont listen to it.

Again...if all they're doing is mimicking secular material then dumping in thoughtless "Christian lyrics"...then it is NOT any honor to God at all.

How does shallowness, "copy-catting", and poor musicianship bring any honor whatsoever to God (assuming that one is attempting to do so in the first place )?


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Edited by Utah Man - February 14 2008 at 11:15

The concept on Sola Scriptura is bothersome, and the music isn't as good as his best imo. Testimony and ? are incredible albums musically though. The concepts for those albums are religious but there is more to them than that, and it's nothing weird like SS, so I can just listen to the music and the lyrics are actually pretty good too. No brainwashing going on, you stooges. People hum lyrics because they are catchy, they hum complete nonsense all the time. Neal's lyrics are catchy, regardless of what they're about, so why does it have to be brainwash because he's talking about Christianity?

I'm not religious but I do have some christian rock albums in my collection by virtue of their musical strength. 

My favorite are some of the mid 80's albums from Petra - Not of This World and Beat the System along with their 1985 live album Captured in Time and Space.  Petra's music at this point was not quite prog but did have several prog elements that I dig - generally excellent muscianship, strong songwriting, and a strong vocalist (The keyboard solo from their live album would easily stand up with any other prog bands IMO).

again, i'm not religious and generally despise christian propaganda (that is, media specifically designed to spread christianity) but I really respect their music and think their faith definitely fueled the quality of those works.  I still enjoy listening to it and while I'm certainly not swayed I very much respect thier drive.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: artguyken wrote: Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, Ivan. Brainwashing is such a strong term and simply wrongly applied here. Brainwashing is a subtle procedure. Sola Scriptura is as subtle as a sledge hammer. People are not brainwashed by a blunt object applied to the side of the head with force.   Brainwashing is precise for this case, I heard a lot of people saying "Het I don0't care about the lyrics, but the music is great"..........This people velieve they don't care about the lyrics but I heard them humming lyrics against their own Church without conciously understanding what they are singing.   If Brainwashing has to be subtle, why then music with Satanic or violent lyrics have a warning enforced by the Churches?   Of course I believe that is dangerous, repulsive and worst, but the principle is the same. People who want to listen to music should do so with discernment, because music is full of ideas -- dangerous and subversive ideas, sometimes, uplifting and encouraging ideas other times.   Sadly that's not the case, most kids don't have discernment, otherwise how can you explain that in Perú a country with 95% of Catholics, each and every local station has a Evengelist program anouncing weekly Christian Rock concerts?   It works, some kids go for the music but stay there, IMO music ceases to be an art and starts to be a jingle. By the way, Peter didn't speak to people who came to listen to him. He spoke out in the marketplace to a crowd. He challenged their religious traditions. Some scoffed, but others believed. The crowd had the freedom to stand and listen, or to walk away and ignore him. It's the same here.   Precisely, he told people what he was talking about, people could listen him, leave or even be aggressve, but in this case the music is the excuse to throw a message to an unprepared audience.   Iván

OK... I've gotten sucked into a discussion with you that I really don't care to continue and I'm guessing most people who came to read about music and not a debate about the whether or not Neal Morse has the right to sing about Martin Luther's beefs with the Catholic Church. 

Write to him, Ivan, if you must.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: artguyken wrote: You're welcome to your opinion, but it seems a very odd position for a guy who belongs to a church that claims to trace itself back to the Apostle Peter, who didn't preach in a church, but was a street evangelist of sorts.    Not odd, Peter gave a directmessage to those who wanted to listen him, he didn't used lyrics of a popular song to gain followers,   Preaching should be for those who want to listen it, not masked in popular music to brainwash young people, who will repeat the lyrics oif they like the music without being concious of what they are saying.   That's my opinion.   Iván

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, Ivan. Brainwashing is such a strong term and simply wrongly applied here. Brainwashing is a subtle procedure. Sola Scriptura is as subtle as a sledge hammer. People are not brainwashed by a blunt object applied to the side of the head with force.

People who want to listen to music should do so with discernment, because music is full of ideas -- dangerous and subversive ideas, sometimes, uplifting and encouraging ideas other times.

By the way, Peter didn't speak to people who came to listen to him. He spoke out in the marketplace to a crowd. He challenged their religious traditions. Some scoffed, but others believed. The crowd had the freedom to stand and listen, or to walk away and ignore him. It's the same here.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: artguyken wrote: Musicians should be free to say whatever they want with their music. People should be free to either listen to it or not.   Exactly, that's why I use my freedom to be against any form of preaching through Prog or Rock.   Iván.

You're welcome to your opinion, but it seems a very odd position for a guy who belongs to a church that claims to trace itself back to the Apostle Peter, who didn't preach in a church, but was a street evangelist of sorts. 

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Garion81 wrote: I agree that this topic is not the place for this discussion and it is why I apologized in advance using Sola Scriptura as an example of what I was saying as I knew how sensitive this was to Ivan.    Since I was the one who broached the subject can we please just move on and get back to the topic subject?      I agree Garion.   My original point is that I'm against Christian, Catholic or whatever music is used as an instrument to evangelize and preach, not anti Christian or anti nothing, I'm anti preaching outside a Church or a school (except in Religion class or religuious schools).   BTW: The whole problem starts with the original question, why use Christian VS secular, this implies a confrontation.   Iván

Musicians should be free to say whatever they want with their music. People should be free to either listen to it or not.

I agree that this topic is not the place for this discussion and it is why I apologized in advance using Sola Scriptura as an example of what I was saying as I knew how sensitive this was to Ivan. 

 I don't deny the Catholic Church Anti Semirtism and worst things as the Inquisition, but the Pope John Paul II asked public excuses for the sins of a church that were commited centuries before he was even born.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 10 2008 at 19:35

Its time to move on from the injustices of the past. If we are to continue to examine and re-examine what has happened to either vilify one or vindicate the game will never end.

Thankfully the lyrics of the music we are listening to  is more enlightened than some of the prejudical  ravings of the  past.
 
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens".