Christian prog vs secular prog

dalt99 wrote: Rubidium wrote: If you're looking for Christian prog, the obvious place to start is Neal Morse.  Not only are his lyrics Christian in nature, but he's also one of the most talented modern prog composers.  Other bands that often mentioned are Glass Hammer, later Kansas, Proto-Kaw, and Salem Hill.  Ajalon is a band that doesn't get mentioned much, but they have produced some quality music. But for my money, the best (aside from Neal Morse, of course) is Akacia.  All three of their albums are wonderful, but I think the best is their second album, The Brass Serpent.  And the title track is over 36 minutes long!  What could be better?   I second this post! Akacia is a very good Christian Prog band. I slightly prefer the first album though. It's a bit more heavy. Not metal but hard rockish prog. The secound CD is very good too though a bit mellower. I have not heard the third yet.

Another couple I'd recommend are Cryptic Vision and the Russian band, Apple Pie. Cryptic Vision has played out at CalProg. They have 3 albums out (2 studio & 1 live). The lyrics of both these bands are not in your face at all, but solidly written from a Christian perspective. "In a World" by CV is excellent and would appeal to anyone who is a fan of Kansas, though by no means a Kansas clone. Apple Pie is similar to Spock's Beard/Neal Morse in their compositional style.

I'd also second the motion regarding Ajalon. "On the Threshold of Eternity" is very good.

Kerry Livgren's underrated 80's band, AD should also be mentioned, as well as Kerry's solo work, post Kansas & AD. "Collector's Sedition - Director's Cut" is an excellent potpouri of Livgren's styles. For AD, "Art of the State" would be a good place to start.

I've never really understood what "christian"  rock/prog really means - is it rock music with the lyrics heavily sanitised so not to offend sensitive people with  religious beliefs?  or is it like those ghastly medieval paintings warning of the evils of satan - if so the perfect rock record for christians  would be the first Black Sabbath album, warning of the dangers of the black mass ..?     in the first place this album was only meant to be a bit of fun anyway and not taken too seriously, and acted as an antidote to all those gooey love songs around at the time,  it caught the imagination of rock fans who still love a bit of black metal.

I think "Christian Rock" would mean the kind of music that utilizes drums and electric guitars as a means to convey a Christian religious message. It is basically a religious music. Therefore out of scope of this site...

Rick Wakeman.

Edited by p0mt3 - February 08 2008 at 14:01

artguyken wrote: p0mt3 wrote: Rick Wakeman.     Though, I don't think any of his musical 'themes' are religious, per say. Right. Rick's a professing follower of Jesus, but most of his music is instrumental. So, is that Christian Prog? Kerry Livgren writes for Proto-Kaw. Kerry is also a believer/follower of Christ, but none of his songs for Proto-Kaw mention Jesus by name. Still, they are written from a Christian perspective. Labels can be helpful, but can also be detrimental. For some lyrics laced with profanity or crudity are offensive. For others, singing about the one who claimed to be "the way, the truth & the life" are offensive. Some groups have a reputation for being dark or nihilistic in their lyrics, but might be musically quite talented, but we don't label them as Nihilistic Prog, or Hedonistic Prog or others as Word Salad Prog. However, once the Christian label is slapped onto an artist, it's like skunk spray to some and a fragrant aroma to others -- some are drawn while others are repulsed. Personally, I'd rather the label not be added and the quality of the music be the determining factor.

artguyken wrote: p0mt3 wrote: artguyken wrote: p0mt3 wrote: Rick Wakeman.     Though, I don't think any of his musical 'themes' are religious, per say. Right. Rick's a professing follower of Jesus, but most of his music is instrumental. So, is that Christian Prog? Kerry Livgren writes for Proto-Kaw. Kerry is also a believer/follower of Christ, but none of his songs for Proto-Kaw mention Jesus by name. Still, they are written from a Christian perspective. Labels can be helpful, but can also be detrimental. For some lyrics laced with profanity or crudity are offensive. For others, singing about the one who claimed to be "the way, the truth & the life" are offensive. Some groups have a reputation for being dark or nihilistic in their lyrics, but might be musically quite talented, but we don't label them as Nihilistic Prog, or Hedonistic Prog or others as Word Salad Prog. However, once the Christian label is slapped onto an artist, it's like skunk spray to some and a fragrant aroma to others -- some are drawn while others are repulsed. Personally, I'd rather the label not be added and the quality of the music be the determining factor.   Oh, I absolutely agree with you, and I would like to say also that from what I have heard of the two apparantly christian prog bands I looked up, "Ajalon" and "Glass Hammer", I genuinely liked the music itself, and would have been interested by it even had I not known of their personal lifestyles or practices (however, I would also like to say that on both counts the vocal work was clearly the weakest link, but ah well, I can get used to it). So far I am impressed with what I have heard. Christian prog...who knew? Yeah, I know what you mean about the vocalists. I'm not a big Glass Hammer fan. I find them to be extremely proficient musicians, but there's something cold about their playing. It lacks heart. (this has nothing to do with the CProg discussion beyond an assessment) The Ajalon vocalist has grown on me. A band you should check into is Iona. Iona is a fantastic prog band from the UK, with a wonderful lead vocalist, Joanne Hogg. They blend Celtic folk music into their sound. I highly recommend their Anthology, which includes the first 3 albums, plus music on a 4th disk, not released elsewhere. If you like live music, their "Heaven's Bright Sun" is an excellent 2 disk live album, or their "Live in London" DVD is also very good. I do not much care for their most recent release, sadly. Dave Bainbridge, one of the key/original members has a fantastic solo album, "Veil of Gossamer." The vocalists are strong on his release, as well. Cryptic Vision is another band to check out. They have a very good vocalist.

 

*franitcaly scribbles down notes*  thank you for the suggestions.

of the post Spock's Beard work by Neal Morse, "One" is my favorite.

I dont think I would like that

OK... I'm a bit baffled. For those who scorn the idea of Christian Prog or think it's laughable, I have to ask why?  If there is no truth and all ideas are equal, then what difference does it make if someone wants to sing about their religious beliefs? Where's the tolerance of ideas?

EnglishAssassin wrote: artguyken wrote: OK... I'm a bit baffled. For those who scorn the idea of Christian Prog or think it's laughable, I have to ask why? If there is no truth and all ideas are equal, then what difference does it make if someone wants to sing about their religious beliefs? Where's the tolerance of ideas? You shouldn't act so surprised.  Just as some of the Christians commenting in this thread have suggested they find free-thinking or anti-religious lyrics difficult to accept, it can be equally off-putting from the other perspective.  I don't, speaking as an atheist, object in the least to the occasional Christian theme cropping up in Dream Theater's lyrics, but I find Neal Morse's endless proselytising quite thoroughly unpalatable in a way that wholly puts me off listening to his music. As an aside, I'm slightly perplexed by the suggestion that the non-religious should be expected to believe that "there is no truth and all ideas are equal".

No, not surprised -- and I understand what you're saying. It's an issue of world view. The prevailing post-modernist thought is generally the idea that truth is what you make it, that there is no absolute truth (in response to your last perplexity). My musing was in response to the idea that all ideas are equal, which many people profess over here.

I understand that for you, Neal's lyrics are off putting. Certainly "Testmony" is very direct in its proclamations, but then the title describes it perfectly; it is his testimony of what his life was like, the despair that he felt and the joy and freedom that he experienced in accepting Jesus as Messiah. For someone who finds that idea repugnant, I can understand that it would grate. My questions are more for those who claim to be completely open minded or simply don't believe that lyrical content is particularly important. ("One" is much less direct, though it is a retelling of creation, fall, despair and reconcilliation.)

Musicians sing about what is important to them, some more metaphorically than others. Neither Kansas or Proto-Kaw are "Christian" bands, but "Somewhere to Elsewhere" by Kansas, and "Before Became After" and "The Wait of Glory" are penned by Kerry Livgren, who is a follower of Jesus. Having been involved in Livgren & Proto-Kaw discussion groups that are comprised of a great variety of belief matrices, his writing seems to be embraced, pre & post conversion, by those professing faith and those in the groups who do not. There is a greater subtlety in his writing than in Neal's.

The spectrum of how "in your face" people's beliefs are presented is as broad within the CProg arena as they are for just general prog. And, as you alluded, if there was an Atheist Prog association, I'd generally not be interested. Generally, because as a person of faith, it wouldn't appeal to me, though there might be bands that still had some interesting things to say.

Which brings me back to what I really was trying to say in my earlier posts and that's to not write off the bands/artists who are in the CProg camp because you think it's going to all be Praise Jesus music. It's not. And as I said earlier, labels can be helpful, but can also be detrimental. I'd rather just judge a band individually by their music and lyrics whether or not they appeal. As a reviewer, I listen and comment primarily on the musical content.