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JLocke 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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 Posted: February 07 2008 at 16:21 |
Are you saying to not review anything I dislike? Why then is the one star option even available? If everyone did what you are suggesting to do, every album on here would be considered masterpieces.
Possibly I missunderstood your meaning, as I am feeling personally attacked at this point and could be missunderstanding what you meant.
You say it wasn't personal, but rather than simply giving me constructive advice from the getgo, you went out of your way to insult my review, then laugh about my writing abilities (or lack thereof). You have taken shots at me twice now that I can remember, and all I was doing on both occasions was voicing my own opinion. If I seemed like I was being rude or unfair in either case, I am truly sorry; can you please be a little less of a bully to me? I don't think I deserve to be insulted and jumped on for voicing an opinion.
Edited by p0mt3 - February 07 2008 at 16:32
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 16:26 |
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don't worry, p0mt3. Micky even gives five stars to things he hates. o:)
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 16:31 |
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it is constructive criticism.... saying a album is horrible... more times that one with ADD can count does not refect a good ....or a particularly creative review. IMO.. of course which is all this is... and if you get tired of my opinion.. just ignore me.. you won't be the first. You can review an album you hate.. or dislike... and sometimes they can be the best of reviews... but they are not easy to do without coming across just mean-spirited or spiteful
As far as shots... not shots... just explaining things for you. First off.. what you said could be interpetated as manipulation and your review fed straight into that. Second... you insulted a poster here ..whether you intended it or not.. .by implying that they were not smart enough to see the subtle differences between Opeth and PT. That is why I have taken in interest in you. If you want to pick on others opinions.. you will have yours similarly picked at. Again..it's not personal... it's life.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46838
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 16:39 |
 laplace wrote:
don't worry, p0mt3. Micky even gives five stars to things he hates. o:)
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err... 4 stars... I dropped it a star 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 16:39 |
micky wrote:
it is constructive criticism.... saying a album is horrible... more times that one with ADD can count does not refect a good ....or a particularly creative review. IMO.. of course which is all this is... and if you get tired of my opinion.. just ignore me.. you won't be the first. You can review an album you hate.. or dislike... and sometimes they can be the best of reviews... but they are not easy to do without coming across just mean-spirited or spiteful
As far as shots... not shots... just explaining things for you. First off.. what you said could be interpetated as manipulation and your review fed straight into that. Second... you insulted a poster here ..whether you intended it or not.. .by implying that they were not smart enough to see the subtle differences between Opeth and PT. That is why I have taken in interest in you. If you want to pick on others opinions.. you will have yours similarly picked at. Again..it's not personal... it's life.
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Well, I truly did not mean to insult anyone. As far as I can recall, I simply told the person on the Opeth thread that he can have his opinion of what he hears in them, and that was fine, but at the same time, Opeth and PT's leaders have stated in the past that there are similarities. Personally, I think it depends on one's interpretation of that statement to conclude on what I meant by it, and while I admit after having it pointed out to me that it could have been taken as if I were insulting that person, I assure you I was not. I don't that, at least not intentionally, because I know what it feels like to have it done to me (especially on forums, and by people like you). So, again, I explained myself in that forum, and I have explained myself here, yet you seem to be getting a real charge out of picking on me, and frankly, I think I will take your advice and ignore you from now on, because you are clearly a mean-spirited bully who looks for excuses to throw out personal insults to people. While what I said was merely a misinterpretation, the things you have said to me were clearly meant in a hateful way. So, as far as I am cocnerned, I consider the matter closed; I know what kind of person you are now, and know how to react to whatever you may say. Have a nice life.
Again, don't missunderstand me on this, either: I'm not wanting to sound like a prick to you, but I am simply saying that I have pretty much summed up the situation: I can't win, even if I explain that my intentions were not to be mean to others, because you want to keep scouting out posts I make and insult them.
If I am making an unjust claim about you, then I guess all I can say is: prove me wrong. If we run into one another on another thread at another time and you actually aren't hostile towards me, maybe then I'll take back my judgement about you, but as of right now, I feel like you are someone who I can only ignore, because making peace won't work, and I am sorry for ever making that post back in the Opeth thread, because I sure didn't want to make enemies on this place, but I guess that can't be stopped now. 
Edited by p0mt3 - February 07 2008 at 16:44
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 16:44 |
 good.. glad that is settled.. now back on topic.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Evans
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3004
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 16:46 |
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thing is, pomte, Raffaela (ghost rider) is micky's sweetheart, so he gets very defensive (and possibly jealous, hehe) when people are bad to her, but he usually does not go out of his way to me an asshole (unless you start a DT-bassist thread, in which case you may actually deserve it). :)
Also, he does have a point about your review, i realise it was one of your first reviews, and of course you can review anything you want, but many times people review albums they hate only out of frustration, and it is usually reflected in the writing, plus an all-negative review is hard to take seriously, just like raving about an album you just heard without even mentioning any flaws it might have is not very useful.
I like, however, that you seem to put some time into reviewing, even if there is room for improvement in the writing itself, many people just give a five-word review saying "amagad, this is rock, and i love it the most", that's the worst kind as far as i'm concerned. We all have different styles of reviewing, i tend to talk a lot about irrelevant issues and use strange metaphores, and some do a song by song review and then use some sort of mathematical division to calculate the amount of stars to give. All styles are needed and practice makes perfect!
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 16:57 |
Evans wrote:
thing is, pomte, Raffaela (ghost rider) is micky's sweetheart, so he gets very defensive (and possibly jealous, hehe) when people are bad to her, but he usually does not go out of his way to me an asshole (unless you start a DT-bassist thread, in which case you may actually deserve it). :)
Also, he does have a point about your review, i realise it was one of your first reviews, and of course you can review anything you want, but many times people review albums they hate only out of frustration, and it is usually reflected in the writing, plus an all-negative review is hard to take seriously, just like raving about an album you just heard without even mentioning any flaws it might have is not very useful.
I like, however, that you seem to put some time into reviewing, even if there is room for improvement in the writing itself, many people just give a five-word review saying "amagad, this is rock, and i love it the most", that's the worst kind as far as i'm concerned. We all have different styles of reviewing, i tend to talk a lot about irrelevant issues and use strange metaphores, and some do a song by song review and then use some sort of mathematical division to calculate the amount of stars to give. All styles are needed and practice makes perfect!
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My reviews suck, and I know it. That really isn't the point, although I already admitted to laplace that the one for TBiG was especially horrible, and I also admited that I probably gave it too hard of a time.
Now that you have explained why micky got the way he did with me, I suppose I now understand why he jumped to conclusions as to what I meant by the comment I made (He must be one of those overely-protective, jump-the-gun types). I thank you for explaining in an intelligent, flame-free manner exactly what the problem was with my review, it is much appreciated, and I will make sure to do better the next time I give something a negative review. 
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Evans
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3004
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 17:02 |
I think we'd all be a little over-protective if we had a girl who liked Opeth and Deep Purple 
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 17:07 |
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she is not my sweeheart.. but my wife to be.... so yes...I do react strongly. If an apology is needed.. I'll give one.. with again.. more unwanted advice... be careful who's toes you step on. There are real people behind these screen names.. with real feelings. There are several people here..who have established close personal relationships with others here. That is the reason this forum is so special.. it isn't simply about the music... it is life. People here come here to be with friends and be safe from the cruel naure of life. Remember that next time you want to step on someone's opinion. If you disagree... watch how you say it.
end of unwanted advice. and again.. back on topic.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Points: 66588
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 17:08 |
There is a fine art to giving a negative review that most do not have the ability to pull off. It is hard to be negative without offending the artists (which keep in mind artists do have access to the internet as well) and more likely their fans. And although Micky likes to stomp out DT, PT, and Genesis fans, for the most part the attempt is to try and keep things on this forum and site in a positive light instead of a negative light. My advice is that if you don't want to be flamed for making negative comments or negative reviews but you want to have your opinion heard then frame your comments constructively. I haven't read your review and I know that the "insulting" post was unintentional, but just something to keep in mind.
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Evans
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3004
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 17:12 |
But she IS a sweetheart though, isn't she? And you are very right, micky, it is a great forum, with unusually friendly people (i've frequented a few forums, and none is as friendly as PA). We should try to keep it that way. : ) And to stay on topic, i ask those who LIKE the album in general, what are your feelings about Cavalettas? Isn't it strange that such a long song, whoch could easily have been a centerpiece, just becomes such an irritating mish mash?
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 17:29 |
Evans wrote:
But she IS a sweetheart though, isn't she?
And you are very right, micky, it is a great forum, with unusually friendly people (i've frequented a few forums, and none is as friendly as PA). We should try to keep it that way. : )
And to stay on topic, i ask those who LIKE the album in general, what are your feelings about Cavalettas? Isn't it strange that such a long song, whoch could easily have been a centerpiece, just becomes such an irritating mish mash?
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oh she is... a sweetheart  as far as the album.. have only listened to it twice. I had a real good general impression of it. as far as Cavalettas... it isn't really that strange... I think the best example of that happening is VDGG's Plague of Lighthouse Keepers. It can be quite easy for such a long song, if not well done.. to become sexactly that.. an irratating mish mash. It isn't automatically good if it is long. I am going to put that one and listen to that one specifically again though.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 19:31 |
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The only problem I see with Cavalettas is there's that one riff that repeats too often- I like the fadeouts though, they're cool
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: February 07 2008 at 19:32 |
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damn... got sidetracked before I got to listen closely to that...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24429
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Posted: February 08 2008 at 03:59 |
I am very happy this is ending up in a peaceful, friendly way. You see, P0mt3, I am someone who does a lot of writing for professional reasons, and have learnt the hard way that you can express the same opinion in a number of different ways. I can be as direct and abrasive as Micky is, and even worse (there are lots of people around who would NEVER for a second think I am anywhere near a sweetheart ), but when I write something that is going to appear somewhere - be it a journal, a book, or a website - I try to be as objective as possible. I have never written a one-star review so far, because I don't like demolishing albums, and usually try to find some saving grace in everything I listen to.
However, sometimes giving one star is fully justified. You bought the latest album by a highly praised, modern prog band, with whom you weren't yet familiar, and were badly disappointed. This means your reaction is perfectly understandable - nevertheless, your review came across as extremely virulent, as if the band had hurt you personally. If you use the adjective 'horrible', I think once is enough to convey your meaning - seven times is, in my humble opinion, overdoing things just a little bit  .
That said, I do understand where you're coming from in your response to the album. TMV are definitely not for the faint-hearted, and TBiG is their densest album to date. If you want breathing space, you're not going to get much there - and I do agree with those who wrote that it is perhaps a bit too long. Anyway, I know I want to listen to it again and again, which is always a good sign, even if I don't think it will become my favourite TMV album (that is still De-loused..). There is something about the bandt that captured my attention from the first time I listened to Frances the Mute, and I still believe they are the best modern prog act around. They are young, they have a lot of ideas, and even if TBiG may be considered as a relative failure by someone, I think the best for them is yet to come.
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barney63
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 31 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 82
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Posted: February 08 2008 at 04:22 |
Pretty accessible I think -it's got some tunes - and made me want to listen again unlike the last one, I forget the title at the moment. But a change of pace would make it easier for me to get through the whole album in one shot, as it can be tiring going 100mph all the time.
I'm I the only person who thinks they're a bit of a poor-man's Ephel Duath...? Copyists....?
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jmcdaniel_ee
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 25 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 141
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Posted: February 08 2008 at 09:50 |
micky wrote:
she is not my sweeheart.. but my wife to be.... so yes...I do react strongly. If an apology is needed.. I'll give one.. with again.. more unwanted advice... be careful who's toes you step on. There are real people behind these screen names.. with real feelings. There are several people here..who have established close personal relationships with others here. That is the reason this forum is so special.. it isn't simply about the music... it is life. People here come here to be with friends and be safe from the cruel naure of life. Remember that next time you want to step on someone's opinion. If you disagree... watch how you say it.
end of unwanted advice. and again.. back on topic.
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So are we all invited to the wedding?  I expect to hear and exerpt from "And You And I" or something. (I actually requested it to be played in the background at my reception.) We definitely at least need to start a wedding thread for you guys, so we can wish you luck, and I can give advice on what NOT to do in a marriage.
But, to contribute to the topic at hand (and repeat myself): All I seem to hear is vocals and drums! It drives me crazy trying to hear the other instruments. Are my ears going crazy? Do others agree, or is my taste just off? I find it incredibly odd that the album could get released like that--as if Cedric and the new drummer were the only people who attended the mix sessions. "Yeah, turn me up some more in the mix. Turn us both up...yeah...yeah, that sounds good."
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Raff
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24429
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Posted: February 08 2008 at 13:00 |
Thanks a lot for the offer!  I'll probably need your advice more than Micky, since I'm a first-timer (I like to call myself a former 'professional old maid' ). Hopefully the wedding will be soon.. .We've just sent in our petition for a fiancée visa for me, and I hope that by the end of the summer I'll be able to move to the Land of the Free. When that date draws near, we'll tell you, so you can start that thread! Back IT, I have noticed the drums are rather prominent in the mix, but I have been able to hear the other instruments too. Anyway, I'll pay more attention the next time I'll listen to the album.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 08 2008 at 13:06 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
I am very happy this is ending up in a peaceful, friendly way. You see, P0mt3, I am someone who does a lot of writing for professional reasons, and have learnt the hard way that you can express the same opinion in a number of different ways. I can be as direct and abrasive as Micky is, and even worse (there are lots of people around who would NEVER for a second think I am anywhere near a sweetheart), but when I write something that is going to appear somewhere - be it a journal, a book, or a website - I try to be as objective as possible. I have never written a one-star review so far, because I don't like demolishing albums, and usually try to find some saving grace in everything I listen to.
However, sometimes giving one star is fully justified. You bought the latest album by a highly praised, modern prog band, with whom you weren't yet familiar, and were badly disappointed. This means your reaction is perfectly understandable - nevertheless, your review came across as extremely virulent, as if the band had hurt you personally. If you use the adjective 'horrible', I think once is enough to convey your meaning - seven times is, in my humble opinion, overdoing things just a little bit .
That said, I do understand where you're coming from in your response to the album. TMV are definitely not for the faint-hearted, and TBiG is their densest album to date. If you want breathing space, you're not going to get much there - and I do agree with those who wrote that it is perhaps a bit too long. Anyway, I know I want to listen to it again and again, which is always a good sign, even if I don't think it will become my favourite TMV album (that is still De-loused..). There is something about the bandt that captured my attention from the first time I listened to Frances the Mute, and I still believe they are the best modern prog act around. They are young, they have a lot of ideas, and even if TBiG may be considered as a relative failure by someone, I think the best for them is yet to come. |
 Yeah, I realize that seven 'horrible's in a row is a bit much, but since I'm not a pro, I didn't really think anyone would care,  . Hopefully based on my other reviews, however, you can see that when I want to take the time to review something in detail, I do so. I love "De-loused", so it isn't that TMV are bad in my eyes, it's just that they are headed in a direction now that I don't particularly care for.
Anyway, I hope everything is cool with Micky now; don't wanna have bad blood with anyone on the forums,
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