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Sinusoid 
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 Topic: Best Prog Rhythm Section
Posted: February 01 2008 at 21:29 |
There have been several polls and topics about bass players and drummers, but I'd thought I'd do something different. Which bassist/drummer combo is the best in the prog world?
My vote is for Lee/Peart although there are several others out there. For laughs, I'll mention the Butler/Ward rhythm section even though Black Sabbath isn't entirely "prog".
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MusicalSalmacis
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 00:33 |
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Yeah Lee/Peart make up pretty fantastic rhythms... That's my pick as well
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nightlamp
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 00:53 |
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I'd have to go with Bill Bruford/John Wetton, although honorable mentions would have to go to Bruford/Levin and Pierre Moerlen/Mike Howlett (Gong).
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BaldJean
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 04:15 |
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Moerlen/Howlett, Vander/Top, Neumeier/Trepte (or Neumeier/Hattler) are the best rhythm sections out there
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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KoS
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 04:22 |
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Justin Chancellor/ Danny Carey...Tool
Oh, hell, you could throw in Adam Jones as well, the whole band is a rhythm section.
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Nightfly
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 07:37 |
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Bruford and Squire were tight as a ducks........
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Forgotten Son
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 09:59 |
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Oliver and Alex Holzworth (Sieges Even)
Doug Ferguson and Andy Ward (Camel)
Peter Trewavas and Ian Mosley (Marillion)
Edited by Forgotten Son - February 02 2008 at 10:34
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 10:05 |
Several, but fiirst someting, IMO a rhyth section doesn't has to be formed by two virtuosos, look at Myung - Portnoy, both are virtuoso player, but unless you have 4 legs and howl at nights, you can barely listen Myung, to the point that Portnoy once said he had to follow Petrucci (according to info provided in this forum), a rhythm section has to work perfectly together.
- Gary Thain - Lee Kerslake
- Mike Rutherford - Phil Collins: None of them is really a virtuoso in the whole sense (maybe Phil is closer), but hey, they played together perfectly.
- Tony Levin - Manu Katche
- Geddy Lee - Neal Peart
- Billy Greer - Phil Ehart: Much more solid than the already good Hope - Ehart
Non Prog: John Entwistle - Keith Moon
I admit Bruford & Squire are both great in their instruments and far morecomplete than Rutrherford and Collins for example, but never totally lliked their interplay.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 02 2008 at 10:07
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 10:19 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Several, but fiirst someting, IMO a rhyth section doesn't has to be formed by two virtuosos, look at Myung - Portnoy, both are virtuoso player, but unless you have 4 legs and howl at nights, you can barely listen Myung, to the point that Portnoy once said he had to follow Petrucci (according to info provided in this forum), a rhythm section has to work perfectly together. |
Regardless of what people say in forums ... Dream Theater is in the firm hand of Portnoy and Petrucci (in that order), and if they had had any problems with Myung I guess they would have gotten another bass player. Having said that: I agree that Myung rarely sticks out in DT songs as far as "basic" rhythm patterns are concerned. But his solo spots and fill-ins are one of the vital ingredients of DT.
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Raff
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 10:25 |
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Besides the obvious choice of Lee/Peart (I am a Rush fan after all), I'd mention anything with Bruford on drums - therefore, Bruford/Squire, Bruford/Wetton, and Bruford/Levin. However, there are a lot of great rhythm sections in less high-profile bands - for instance, Richard Sinclair/Pip Pyle in Hatfield and the North, or Pyle/John Greaves in National Health. And what about Wyatt/Hopper in Soft Machine?
As to prog-related bands, I can't help mention the very underrated duo of Ian Paice and Roger Glover in Deep Purple, and of course Moon/Entwistle, which Ivan just mentioned.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 10:25 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Having said that: I agree that Myung rarely sticks out in DT songs as far as "basic" rhythm patterns are concerned. But his solo spots and fill-ins are one of the vital ingredients of DT.
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That's exactly my point Mike, both are incredible musicians, but you can't deny Myung is barely audible except in his solos.
His solos are outstanding, but his interplay with Portnoy is not good (IMO) because if you can't listen a part of the rhythm section, well it's not working as a rhythm section.
BTW: The only info oprovided by the forum is what Portnoy said, the fact that Myung can't be listened is more than evident for anybody.
If what Portnoy said is true and the drummer has to follow the guitar player because he can't listen the bass player...well, the rhythm section is not working as a rhythm section.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 02 2008 at 10:33
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 10:50 |
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^ well, as a rule of thumb I'd say that in metal bands the bass lines tend to follow the guitar more than in general rock bands. Of course there are many exceptions (which I'm thankful for), it's just that often in metal the guitar riff is the center of the song.
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E-Dub
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 11:14 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Several, but fiirst someting, IMO a rhyth section doesn't has to be formed by two virtuosos, look at Myung - Portnoy, both are virtuoso player, but unless you have 4 legs and howl at nights, you can barely listen Myung, to the point that Portnoy once said he had to follow Petrucci (according to info provided in this forum), a rhythm section has to work perfectly together.
- Gary Thain - Lee Kerslake
- Mike Rutherford - Phil Collins: None of them is really a virtuoso in the whole sense (maybe Phil is closer), but hey, they played together perfectly.
- Tony Levin - Manu Katche
- Geddy Lee - Neal Peart
- Billy Greer - Phil Ehart: Much more solid than the already good Hope - Ehart
Non Prog: John Entwistle - Keith Moon
I admit Bruford & Squire are both great in their instruments and far morecomplete than Rutrherford and Collins for example, but never totally lliked their interplay.
Iván
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When I saw the title of the thread, I instantly thought of Hope and Ehart, Ivan. I always thought Reingold and Zoltan did a great job in the short time they had together with The Flower Kings and The Tangent. E
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paolo.beenees
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 11:17 |
Bruford/Squire (Yes)
Leibezeit/Czukay (Can)
Peart/Lee (Rush)
Favia/Callero (Osage Tribe)
Wolfbrandt/Hattler (Kraan)
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BaldJean
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 11:24 |
paolo.beenees wrote:
Bruford/Squire (Yes)
Leibezeit/Czukay (Can)
Peart/Lee (Rush)
Favia/Callero (Osage Tribe)
Wolfbrandt/Hattler (Kraan)
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Peter Wolbrandt is the guitar player of Kraan; I suppose you meant Jan Fride, the drummer
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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paolo.beenees
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 11:25 |
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^Wasn't Jan Fride Wolfbrandt Peter's brother?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:38 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ well, as a rule of thumb I'd say that in metal bands the bass lines tend to follow the guitar more than in general rock bands. Of course there are many exceptions (which I'm thankful for), it's just that often in metal the guitar riff is the center of the song. |
Then, you must also agree that Myung - Portnoy is not working as a rhythm section, by definition, a rhythm section works if the drums follow the base to create a rhytmic structure, if the drummer follows theguitar, then the rhythm section is formed by guitar - bass.
The prime function of the bass and drums is the rhythm.
This doesn't mean they are bad, as a fact I believe Myung is by far one of the most talented bass players as Portnoy in the drums, but Myung - Portnoy IMO is not a solid rhythm section, because they are not working like that.
Iván
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BaldJean
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:11 |
paolo.beenees wrote:
^Wasn't Jan Fride Wolfbrandt Peter's brother? |
I must admit this is the first time I see him referred to as Jan Fride Wolbrandt; on the albums his name is always given as Jan Fride only
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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paolo.beenees
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:30 |
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Honestly, I couldn't remember their names, but I'm not at home, so I couldn't consult the line-up on my copies of their albums, and I consulted the German version of Wikipedia, where I discovered this "Verwandtschaft"
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BaldJean
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Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:45 |
paolo.beenees wrote:
Honestly, I couldn't remember their names, but I'm not at home, so I couldn't consult the line-up on my copies of their albums, and I consulted the German version of Wikipedia, where I discovered this "Verwandtschaft" |
well, whatever his name is, it is a good choice. excellent rhythm section indeed. and it is a shame that there are about a dozen bass polls out, but none of them lists Hattler. Kraan simply is not known well enough; anyone who has ever heard them would definitely include Hattler in a bass poll
Edited by BaldJean - February 02 2008 at 13:48
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Best Prog Rhythm Section
