Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Southern California is Burning
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedSouthern California is Burning

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 21:44
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

 

Very thoughtful post. 

Here in the Georgia/Florida area we've been having drought and wildfire problems this season.  In other seasons, hurricanes.  But to my memory the wildfires around here are a recent problem.  I've lived here since '72 and this is the first year smoke from distant wildfires ever saturated the area.  They haven't effected houses to the extent that Califonia has been hit.
Thanks, Slart. Smile
 
Please do check out the link I just posted. Though it's Canadian, it still applies to your US situation as well (it touches upon pretty much all of the things we've mentioned here), and even mentions aging forests, and a worsening (recent) problem.
 
Ain't Google & the Web wonderful? It's almost like living in every major library on earth -- minus that cursed, confusing  Dewey Decimal system! Cool
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 21:44
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Greg W Greg W wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard the environmental laws were so strict, that they wouldn't even allow people to come in there and cut out the dead rotting trees, citing that we would upset the animals there. In such a hot and dry climate, that seems like one is inviting disaster.



Where did you hear some nonsense like that ? It sounds fabricated to me.
Smile EM, if you (or anyone else with sufficient attention span and reading abilityWink) is interested in actually learning more about forest fires, forest management and deadfall, etc, I just found a very informative article from the Canadian Forest Service. (I simply Googled "forest management fires deadfall." ):
 
 
It's not too long a read, BTW, but I'd better not just copy a document which, as our good Bob/Easy Livin would point out, is most likely copyrighted. This brief article/fact sheet has lots of links to related topics, too.Smile


Always interested in good information.  Used love to flip through encyclopedias as a kid.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Back to Top
Easy Money View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10671
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 21:50
Hi Peter, I like your take on things, also my sympathies go to those effected. I just don't think people should take advantage of this and use it to push a pre-determined political agenda.

Edited by Easy Money - October 24 2007 at 00:55
Back to Top
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 22:00
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Hi Peter, I like your take on things, also my sympathies go to those affected. I don't think people should take advantage of this and push a pre-determined political agenda.
Thanks, EM. Smile
 
I quite agree -- the (inevitable) finger pointing can and should wait. Now is the time for human empathy and united action!
 
(Ain't politics a lovely game? No disaster is so horrid but some oily, cynical, sleazy, self-serving, slimeball schmuck politico won't seek to take advantage of it to garner votes!) Dead


Edited by Peter - October 23 2007 at 22:05
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
stonebeard View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 22:02
This is nature reclaiming itself. We cannot control it forever. If we try to mess with it, it will mess with us on a far greater scale.
Back to Top
Finnforest View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17037
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 22:06
In CA when the Santa Ana winds blow at 70mph in dry weather, and the humidity is 4%, you're going to have wildfires.  Regardless of what environmentalists do.   Clearing dead brush is helpful but this whole angle about environmentalists being at fault is a huge ironic joke IMO.  Our thoughts are with any and all of our PA kin in the area.  Please stay well!


Edited by Finnforest - October 24 2007 at 06:10
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
Back to Top
Garion81 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 00:51
Um guys lived here all my life.  The fact is we have had below normal rainfall for two year straight with last year only netting 3.5 inches.  This area is surrounded by mountains as high as 8000 ft along with the accompanying foothills right up to the Ocean.  We are not flat. These hills grow scrub brush that dies out every summer even in wet years.  When the winds come it lowers humidity to less than 10%.  A spark is all you need to set these off. 
 
Greg W prior to 2003 we had a drought related issue in our local mountains that caused the Ponderosa pines to be devastated by an insect called the Bark Beetle that literally killed the trees from the core out.  Once infested there was no way to save the trees.  We had tens of thousands of these dead giants all over the place.  Some of the blame  goes to over forestation the other to drought that weakened these trees in the first place.  I am not here to make a political debate. Even before the devastating fires of 2003 the forestry service was contracting many people to remove them.  After that devastating fire a gold rush economy boomed in getting rid of the rest. 
 
No the real reason for this devastation this year is arson as it is so many times in the past.  Natural fires caused by lightning do happen but more often than not these things are caused by insane people who care nothing for the environment and other people. 
You could make a case for overpopulation but really someone would be affected somewhere when these things happen.  The only difference would be the fires would burn more acres until they reached homes as they did when I was a kid.
 
Btw Peter thanks for the thoughts.  My daughter is safe and we are hoping since the winds are dying and humidity is growing her home will be OK.   


Edited by Garion81 - October 24 2007 at 00:53


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 01:52
As I read this, in Decaur Georgia, we are being treated to a nice overdue rain and I wish you guys the same soon.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Back to Top
Bastille Dude View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 906
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 02:50
Most of these fires were started by sick individuals who get a kick out of watching the destruction they've incurred, Not by mother nature. October is always bad in California, When the warm Santa Ana winds start to blow and the humidity is low, Arson fires are to be expected. Thankfully the low pressure will be coming back in and we might have some rain by the weekend which could quell these fires. I hope they catch the degenerates who started the fires. Angry
DEATH TO FALSE PROG!
Back to Top
TheProgtologist View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 09:20

For everyone who lives in the area and are being affected by this my prayers are with you and hope you all are allright.



Back to Top
mystic fred View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 12:34
this fire is all over the news in the UK,  what a tragedy, our thoughts are with the suffering, and hope it stops soon.  
Prog Archives Tour Van
Back to Top
JJLehto View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 16:57
Jeez...just saw some pictures....Never seen anything like that before.
Back to Top
Garion81 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 18:29
I have JJ the last big one was just 4 years ago. It truley looks like a warzone.  I remember after the last one and driving by the mountains that were burnt black Cry
 
I was just outside a few minutes ago and it must have been 90-92 with no humidty at all.  At least the wind died down. Saw smoke coming from a new horizon just due west of where I work. 
 


Edited by Garion81 - October 24 2007 at 18:29


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Back to Top
debrewguy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 18:54
First off , my prayers for all in the area, hoping that this passes quickly.
When I fist saw the thread topic, I was of a mind to post a rant about how celebrity residents of California have it good compared to Darfur ( a favourite cause of mine as of late). Then I read the posts, and good common sense overwhelmed me. Suffering is not measured by comparing. Compassion is not doled out only in the most extreme cases, but whenever we see people just like us, who face a danger to their lives.
Here in New Brunswick (Canada) we do have major forest fires, but because of a less dense population, the effects are rarely of the order that California has faced regularly.

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
Back to Top
Garion81 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 19:09
Nice post.  And to add to your last remark your forest fires were probably not started by arson! 
 
BTW very few celebrities live in So Cal.  Mostly a lot of regular people make up the population. Wink
 


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Back to Top
debrewguy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 21:08
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Nice post.  And to add to your last remark your forest fires were probably not started by arson! 
 
BTW very few celebrities live in So Cal.  Mostly a lot of regular people make up the population. Wink
 


Well ... years ago when I was much younger, there were always stories how some people would start a fire so they could get work fighting the fire, thus getting enough weeks to qualify for unemployment insurance, UI. That didn't last too long after one guy got his ass kicked by a local lumberjack who's income was cut off because the woods in our area were closed off because of a fear that a number of minor fires might combine into one big one due to a dry summer. I don't generally agree with small town vigilanteeism, but you know sometimes it works, eh.


"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
Back to Top
JJLehto View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2007 at 22:37
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

I have JJ the last big one was just 4 years ago. It truley looks like a warzone.  I remember after the last one and driving by the mountains that were burnt black Cry
 
I was just outside a few minutes ago and it must have been 90-92 with no humidty at all.  At least the wind died down. Saw smoke coming from a new horizon just due west of where I work. 
 
 
Damn. I have to admit I kind of shook this off because, you know, we hear about fires alot....but I was really shocked when I saw this. Especially the NASA pick of the smoke from space.
 
Hope you're alright, and everyone down there.


Edited by JJLehto - October 24 2007 at 22:42
Back to Top
Garion81 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 13:11
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

I have JJ the last big one was just 4 years ago. It truley looks like a warzone.  I remember after the last one and driving by the mountains that were burnt black Cry
 
I was just outside a few minutes ago and it must have been 90-92 with no humidty at all.  At least the wind died down. Saw smoke coming from a new horizon just due west of where I work. 
 
 
Damn. I have to admit I kind of shook this off because, you know, we hear about fires alot....but I was really shocked when I saw this. Especially the NASA pick of the smoke from space.
 
Hope you're alright, and everyone down there.
 
I and my family are and thanks for your concern.
 
The thing is 500,000 people had to be evacuated form their homes.  Some at a moments notice taking nothing with them but the clothes on their back, their families and maybe if lucky they had time to grab pets and pictures.  Other areas get more time.  In any case all of the evacuations were orderly and people didn't panic.  For most of these people they will go back to their homes and resume their lives for the many who lost homes they will have their lives turned upside down in a litany of insurance claims, government red tape and the feeling of loss when they they have lost everything. 
 
These fires can be every bit as tragic as a hurricane, flood or any other natural disaster.  They are native to the area but the damn arsonists who set a lot of these things during these conditions are the real problem.  You add in the number of people who live here and it is terrifying.
 
Today the weather is better and many of the fires are being contained.  There are still two or three of the biggest ones that haven't so we hope and pray the weather continues to cool and we get more moisture.  One more wind blast like Sunday-Tuesday thousands of homes would be destroyed.
 


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Back to Top
JJLehto View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 13:32

The arson really is sick. If I started a fire that ended up becoming one of these, I'd probably throw myself into it... disgusting.

Glad things are starting to look a little better.
Back to Top
E-Dub View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 15:26
I just got back from my favorite coffeeshop down in the city and there was a guy from San Diego huddled over his laptop. He, the owner and myself got to talking and he had photos taken at night. Man, what a bizarre scene that is. He said that it's jumped Hwy 5 (the main highway that runs north/south).

My thoughts and prayers are with the people of southern California as well.

E
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.176 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.