Coheed&Cambria Prog??

Prog? No. Prog Related? Yes.

well I don't like Coheed And Cambria too much, but I do consider them prog-related, just because of the concept of the band and the lengthy songs

Floydian42 wrote: Prog-jester wrote: long tracks time signatures and ever-changing moods concept story not enaff eh? Not for me, they still scream alternative whenever I listen. The only difference is they have a concept behind there works.

Edited by adammcdorman - December 22 2007 at 02:04

I would say prog related.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Green Day have meet some of these requirements on their last album ... you're free to propose their addition, but in all honesty I think that American Idiot is still a lot less complex than any Coheed & Cambria album (I only heard a few songs off of it though - but I've read many reviews). In the end which band gets accepted as prog-related and which is rejected is a subjective decision. Coheed and Cambria though was an obvious case because they not only meet these requirements but are also described as being prog in the media and by their fans, which can't be said at all about Green Day.

I'm not purposing there inclusion, I think it's obvious that there not Prog in the slightest. What I was going for was that I don't see how that sort of rational (looking at the technicals) can be used to claim a musician as prog or not, or any other genre for that matter. A person can be judges as a genre or not based on what, for lack of a better term, feels right.

I think a lot of the C&C fan based that claimed them as prog listened to people like Rush and other heavier rock based prog musicians and got the wrong impression of Prog.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Floydian42 wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ which is why they're in the prog-related category. It seems like people just don't get it ... bands in that category are *not* prog. Well, I don't even see any clear relation, but hey, everyone has an opinion, right? The prog elements they use were outlined many times in this thread ... you're free to ignore these posts of course. You also don't have to agree with them, but consider this: http://www.last.fm/music/Coheed+and+Cambria As you can see by the tags most user seem to think that they're even fully fledged prog rock ... so the position of PA could even be described as "conservative".

Prog Elements I have seen listed:

Conceptual Story (Need I Say Greenday? They're not regarded as Prog related?)

Change in Time Signature (Plenty of Genre's have this, Metal, ALTERNATIVE (at times), classical, Jazz.)

Lengthy Songs (Come on, so a song is prog because it's sort of long? What does that have to do with anything? Also, need I mention, that Green Day also had several long songs roughly 10 minutes in length.)

Changing Moods (All artists have songs that change moods! Everyone from David Bowie to the Red Jumpsuit Apparatus. And again, Greenday.)

If anything, I put them as a crossover between Alternative and Metal. Also, Green Day have 3 of these 4 requirements, so why aren't they included? Or even R. Kelly for that matter? (Not that I want them to be, I'm just saying for argument sake.)

I would like to bring up as well that other artists such as Sufjan Stevens contains ALL FOUR of these elements even more so then Coheed and Cambria, and he's not even so much as being considered to being added onto this site. (Okay, well, he's not quite as Conceptual as C&C, but he still has three concept albums.)

exactly Dean... people here aren't saints.. we are human..  and first impressions are often lasting ones.

wow.. .I haven't seen that many clappies in....errr.. far too long  

Thanks.. for what it's worth.. I've beat my head bloody trying to get changes here.  You can... but damn... you have to be damn dedicated to do it.  Not to mention a persistant b*****d as well.  The fact is this site is owned by someone.. and they have final say.  As my earlier advice says... we either accept it ..or we move on.

Cheers


Edited by micky - September 29 2007 at 15:21

Logan wrote: Thanks Micky. Progressive music is to a large extent about pushing boundaries, I think it tends to appeal to people with fairly flexible mind.  To be honest, I'm not inclined to defend a system, because I think it should be open to new ideas, and constructive criticism can lead to improvements.  And I know you're not afraid to rock the boat a bit.  I don't think anyone here would claim the system is perfect, but you guys have done an amazing job.   If I care about a site or a subject, then I will offer my suggestions/ opinions for discussion.  What I don't like is the disrespectful way some people criticise.  If they want their ides to be considered, they should be considerate in turn.  If they want to be shown respect, they should be respectful. Ah well, people like to bitch about things (shame more people aren't grateful for all the hard work you guys  have put into this site to make it a great resource and prefer to be more negative than positive). Anyway, I think it's really important to be progressive in one's thinking.  If one limited oneself to a certain "traditionalist" view of Prog, this site would be very limited.  It was important to expand into various forms of progressive music to remain vibrant.  I could imagine  site having two categories: Progressive Rock (classic) and Retro Prog (or regressive -- bands not part of the original movement but emulating it). I see this place getting better and better (as any good site should). As for C&C, it's not a particularly Prog related band to my ear, but not liking the music may have affected my perception of it somewhat.

you make some good points ... and are probably best talked of in private.  Change here is a complicated  thing.. it doesn't have to be...  but it is. and that is what we are left to deal with.

Thanks Micky.

Progressive music is to a large extent about pushing boundaries, I think it tends to appeal to people with fairly flexible mind.  To be honest, I'm not inclined to defend a system, because I think it should be open to new ideas, and constructive criticism can lead to improvements.  And I know you're not afraid to rock the boat a bit.  I don't think anyone here would claim the system is perfect, but you guys have done an amazing job.

  If I care about a site or a subject, then I will offer my suggestions/ opinions for discussion.  What I don't like is the disrespectful way some people criticise.  If they want their ides to be considered, they should be considerate in turn.  If they want to be shown respect, they should be respectful. Ah well, people like to bitch about things (shame more people aren't grateful for all the hard work you guys  have put into this site to make it a great resource and prefer to be more negative than positive).

Anyway, I think it's really important to be progressive in one's thinking.  If one limited oneself to a certain "traditionalist" view of Prog, this site would be very limited.  It was important to expand into various forms of progressive music to remain vibrant.  I could imagine  site having two categories: Progressive Rock (classic) and Retro Prog (or regressive -- bands not part of the original movement but emulating it).

I see this place getting better and better (as any good site should).

As for C&C, it's not a particularly Prog related band to my ear, but not liking the music may have affected my perception of it somewhat.


Edited by Logan - September 29 2007 at 14:55