Coheed&Cambria Prog??
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42109
Printed Date: March 04 2025 at 00:55
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Topic: Coheed&Cambria Prog??
Posted By: kikeonline
Subject: Coheed&Cambria Prog??
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 09:07
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Heys guys:
Just a question.... Why is Coheed & Cambria progrssive??? is it because of the comic book wich is parallel to the music albums??
I dont have nothing against them, in fact I just bought the discography
greets  ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 09:12
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They are prog-related, a rock band that contains some elements of progressive rock.
In my opinion, a very good rock band with very few prog-rock elements. |
Posted By: kikeonline
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 09:56
and this elements are?? -------------
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ProgBagel wrote:Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 12:00
| Some typical prog elements are listed here: http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 14:34
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long tracks
time signatures and ever-changing moods concept story not enaff eh? 
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Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 18:18
Not for me, they still scream alternative whenever I listen. The only difference is they have a concept behind there works. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 19:40
Who asked you?  ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 19:43
I think they are. Though I don't like them that much. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 19:45
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I just checked out part of the recent streaming track and it sounded alright to me, granted that's a really small sampling.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 22:51
Oh, your right, my bad. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 22:53
PROG-RELATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahhaha ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Lanor
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 09:22
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Personally, I don't think they belong on the site at all. But I can see why other people want them here. I never really got into the concept because it seemed really gimmicky. I dig some of their tunes though. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 12:57
So ... something that sounds "alternative" can not be prog? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:00
god forbid prog that sounds 'pop' . open your minds people... you are supposed to be prog fans.... not simple minded fools that listen to two or three chords stuffed under a cowboy hat ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:04
Well, no, certainly not, a lot of oh say PT's stuff has the alternative sound, but there's more too PT then that. I have two of Coheed's albums and there just good alternative rock. Nothing more. I would never dare describe them as prog to someone. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:10
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^ which is why they're in the prog-related category. It seems like people just don't get it ... bands in that category are *not* prog. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:14
again.... I wish the admins would listen and change that damned name. People see prog... and think prog. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:20
Well, I don't even see any clear relation, but hey, everyone has an opinion, right? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:21
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Going back to " is it because of the comic book wich is parallel to the music albums" Erm, I don't believe it is, I assume you mean that the three albums released thus far have followed the comic book story line, so are therefore are Concept albums. Concept albums are not universally restricted to Prog Rock - thee are numerous non-Prog concept albums.
Also, Claudio Sanchez's Amory Wars comic books are not as well known as the C&C albums, so it is unlikely that they figured in anyone's opinion of whether the music is Emo, Alternative, Prog or Prog-Related. ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:23
which is why these discussions are pointless.... those who show the site they have vision to see the big picture end up getting moved up and make the discussions . The admins most of all...who decide what goes in prog-related or not. So in summation... you have the right to opinion.. but not to say that this site is wrong. I'll put 100 odd years of prog experience of the admin team against yours anyday hahhaha ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:29
The prog elements they use were outlined many times in this thread ... you're free to ignore these posts of course. You also don't have to agree with them, but consider this: http://www.last.fm/music/Coheed+and+Cambria - http://www.last.fm/music/Coheed+and+Cambria As you can see by the tags most user seem to think that they're even fully fledged prog rock ... so the position of PA could even be described as "conservative". ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:31
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This is ProgArchives, I guess some people expect Prog at a Prog site.. Anyway, I wouldn't so much say that all the bands in prog-Related are "not Prog" per se, some are considered Prog by some (I used the Alan Parsons Project in a similar thread as an example). Some might be described as quasi-Prog, but we should really be thinking about albums as Prog rather than bands since many bands listed here as Prog bands released non-Prog albums, and I would argue that there are bands listed under Prog Related that released Prog albums (sometimes it just seems to be a matter of the quantity of material). What is Prog is often in the ear of the behearer. So I tend not to think in such (Prog. Non Prog) absolutes. Re an earlier comment: The question might be, if not Prog, would one describe them as related to prog to someone? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:43
I would describe them as prog related to people who mainly listen to non-prog alternative/independent/emo rock. Then I would add that there are bands from those genres who have more prog elements - such as Dredg, Three, Oceansize or Radiohead. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:45
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moving bands out of PR is something that is being worked on Logan..
most of those are fits for Xover... and are being worked on between the
admin and Xover teams. Those bands are prog..... but didn't fit
in existing subs before. The two teams agree to the need to move
them out.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: P.H.P.
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:45
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Coheed&Cambria Prog?? Give me a break!!  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:48
^ unable to understand the concept prog-related give me a break.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:50
sure... which arm?  ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:50
both if you please... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:51
| I seem to remember it being suggested much this way before, but it would be a neat feature if albums could be rated with a prog-o-meter here since some albums by "Prog Related" bands are much more related than others (and indeed some bands deemed Prog Related are more related than others). Of course the Prog-quotient should be reflected in the existent album ratings too. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:55
the simple solution.... or would be in a perfect world.. but as this thread proves.. it doesn't exist. In a perfect world.. people read before they consider... consider before they speak. We would have bands who did prog albums out of PR... and in the genre that reflects what their prog was. Of course that won't happen.. or maybe SHOULD happen so the numbnuts could go on and on about how this group.... group.. not the music.. is not prog. People seem to think this is a general music site...it is a prog website.. People don't give a sh*t about Genesis post prog... the prog Genesis is what is important here. Should be the same for others. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 14:03
But, as has been noted already, some people really do consider C&C Prog. Before I decided to join here (though I was a long-time user of this site), I was familiar with other sites that considered C&C Prog. When I fist heard them, it was not the kind of music I was expecting at all, and was very disappointed, it wasn't Prog as I knew it... But then I've come to accept a wide variety of music under the Prog umbrella that I, formerly only being familiar with the traditional Prog more popular names, wouldn't have thought of as as Prog per se (as a specific movement), but I would've considered progressive. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 14:08
I'm glad of it, hopefully there will be less confusion over the terms often used by people at this site when discussing Prog Related; that being "not Prog" bands vs. "Prog" bands. I still won't see things here in such (linguistic) absolutes, though. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 14:08
can I be blunt... that is why you are a collab.. and some here will never be even if they wanted to... prog demands an open mind. I have no opinions as to the group itself... I just defend the system we have here and those that decide it. We are all volunteers.. and either people live with the way things are.. or they can find another site. If C&C, by either being on the site...or not being in a full prog category bugs someone to no end.... just leave.... those kind of people bring nothing to the site anyway. Are they the type who will have an open mind to explore and appreciate new areas of prog. Nope. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: kikeonline
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 14:48
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To make a more valid statement, I just heard all the discogrphy of C&C, I listen to every ingle song twice, I read the elements of prog-music, and I think that they are not even Prog-related... I think they are PROGESSIVE, Just listen to the song "2113" and its far from being prog-ralated.
I think that we prog-people have our ego a little bit high, why not accept this band?? just because it sounds like "Chemical Romance" , or because they dont have 5 minutes solos??
you guys should listen the to all the albums, and not just the song on youYube or mySpace, which are the most comercial...
May be we should go back in time and remember what is prog about... -------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 14:53
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Thanks Micky. Progressive music is to a large extent about pushing boundaries, I think it tends to appeal to people with fairly flexible mind. To be honest, I'm not inclined to defend a system, because I think it should be open to new ideas, and constructive criticism can lead to improvements. And I know you're not afraid to rock the boat a bit. I don't think anyone here would claim the system is perfect, but you guys have done an amazing job. If I care about a site or a subject, then I will offer my suggestions/ opinions for discussion. What I don't like is the disrespectful way some people criticise. If they want their ides to be considered, they should be considerate in turn. If they want to be shown respect, they should be respectful. Ah well, people like to bitch about things (shame more people aren't grateful for all the hard work you guys have put into this site to make it a great resource and prefer to be more negative than positive). Anyway, I think it's really important to be progressive in one's thinking. If one limited oneself to a certain "traditionalist" view of Prog, this site would be very limited. It was important to expand into various forms of progressive music to remain vibrant. I could imagine site having two categories: Progressive Rock (classic) and Retro Prog (or regressive -- bands not part of the original movement but emulating it). I see this place getting better and better (as any good site should). As for C&C, it's not a particularly Prog related band to my ear, but not liking the music may have affected my perception of it somewhat. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 15:08
that is a valid post and a good post... the problem is ... for each of you that thinks that it is prog.. there is someone who'll think they are not. What most should realize is there is no set definition of prog... what prog is to you is not the same as another. The site tries to take all opinions into account and make additions that reflect not only the opinions of the collabs but of the forums in general. This question though has been settled. It was deemed best to put them in related. There is no right ...or wrong answer. Only compromises. They are here... and if you really feel strongly about it. Work to try to get others to see your point of view. That though ...you have to be real talented to do. Commen sense.. trust me... doesn't work... people see what they want to see. You have to present a case that no one can refute. Since this isn't a science anyway. You'd be wasting your time. From what I know of the group... it sounds like they should be here. There are larger issues regarding the admissions process than meerly deciding if it is prog or not. There are prog bands that are not in full prog sub-genres. It comes down to fitting a sub-genre. That is a problem here... bands have to fit a sub.. rather than trying match a group to the sub it fits best. Certain teams wouldn't touch that C&C.. and that would leave them no where else to go... unless they fit in J-R... sympho... Xover .. you get the point.... it is an imperfect system. We just do the best we can. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 15:14
you make some good points ... and are probably best talked of in private. Change here is a complicated thing.. it doesn't have to be... but it is. and that is what we are left to deal with. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: kikeonline
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 15:15
  -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 15:21
wow.. .I haven't seen that many clappies in....errr.. far too long  Thanks.. for what it's worth.. I've beat my head bloody trying to get changes here. You can... but damn... you have to be damn dedicated to do it. Not to mention a persistant b*****d as well. The fact is this site is owned by someone.. and they have final say. As my earlier advice says... we either accept it ..or we move on. Cheers ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 15:23
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C&C are prog-related in the sense that they are not a fully-fledged progressive band... yet. But they have the potential and I hope that the next album heads more in the prog direction, however, comercial pressures and the taste of instant fame that they undoubtably received with IV may prevent that from happening. We are all to ready to accept a band that starts out as Prog and slips into the mainstream/pop/whatever, (eventhough we may never forgive them ), but always have problems with bands that come from the other direction - it is like it is a cardinal sin not to start off as Prog from day-one. Part of the reason for this is we quickly form opinions based upon first impressions.------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 15:29
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exactly Dean... people here aren't saints.. we are human.. and first impressions are often lasting ones.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 16:52
If you're into rating progressiveness of albums you're welcome to do so on Ratingfreak.com ...  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 09:42
Prog Elements I have seen listed: Conceptual Story (Need I Say Greenday? They're not regarded as Prog related?) Change in Time Signature (Plenty of Genre's have this, Metal, ALTERNATIVE (at times), classical, Jazz.) Lengthy Songs (Come on, so a song is prog because it's sort of long? What does that have to do with anything? Also, need I mention, that Green Day also had several long songs roughly 10 minutes in length.) Changing Moods (All artists have songs that change moods! Everyone from David Bowie to the Red Jumpsuit Apparatus. And again, Greenday.) If anything, I put them as a crossover between Alternative and Metal. Also, Green Day have 3 of these 4 requirements, so why aren't they included? Or even R. Kelly for that matter? (Not that I want them to be, I'm just saying for argument sake.) I would like to bring up as well that other artists such as Sufjan Stevens contains ALL FOUR of these elements even more so then Coheed and Cambria, and he's not even so much as being considered to being added onto this site. (Okay, well, he's not quite as Conceptual as C&C, but he still has three concept albums.) |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 11:35
Green Day have meet some of these requirements on their last album ... you're free to propose their addition, but in all honesty I think that American Idiot is still a lot less complex than any Coheed & Cambria album (I only heard a few songs off of it though - but I've read many reviews). In the end which band gets accepted as prog-related and which is rejected is a subjective decision. Coheed and Cambria though was an obvious case because they not only meet these requirements but are also described as being prog in the media and by their fans, which can't be said at all about Green Day. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 11:49
I'm not purposing there inclusion, I think it's obvious that there not Prog in the slightest. What I was going for was that I don't see how that sort of rational (looking at the technicals) can be used to claim a musician as prog or not, or any other genre for that matter. A person can be judges as a genre or not based on what, for lack of a better term, feels right. I think a lot of the C&C fan based that claimed them as prog listened to people like Rush and other heavier rock based prog musicians and got the wrong impression of Prog. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 12:02
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^ nobody said that Coheed & Cambria are prog ... (*sigh*) as far as the relation to prog is concerned: you outlined it pretty well in the above post. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MonkeyphoneAlex
Date Posted: October 01 2007 at 08:24
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I would say prog related.
Personally don't care for them, though. ------------- "Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST." -FZ |
Posted By: SilverEclipse
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:32
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As a huge Coheed & Cambria fan, I think the term prog-related suits them well, although they do have a few songs that are UNDOUBTEDLY prog, but very few or none that couldn't be considered progressive at all. For anyone who doubts any prog influence at all, go listen to the 13th track on Good Apollo, The Willing Well II: Fear Through The Eyes Of Madness. For anyone who considers them mainly prog, go listen to Blood Red Summer. See? prog-related is perfect. ------------- "and if the band your in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon" |
Posted By: adammcdorman
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 01:35
I wouldn't think that sounding alternative would prevent a band from being considered progressive. There are bands that are commonly accepted as progressive that sound very alternative to me (some Oceansize, some Porcupine Tree). I hear a lot of classic progressive influence in their music (Pink Floyd, Rush) especially in their last 2 albums.
I would say that progressive rock isn't their primary genre, but I would certainly say that they fit the criteria of a progressive band as outlined by this site as well as most of the bands that are accepted.
I think this is completely correct.
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Posted By: SilverEclipse
Date Posted: December 23 2007 at 12:24
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The new album is out, and I think it might be a bit of a victory for the crowd who doesn't see Coheed as progressive. There is ONE prog song on that album, The End Complete V: On The Brink. The rest is very much neo-classic rock, catchy and easy to sing along to, with VERY HEAVY influences from Queen, Iron Maiden, The Who, and many other classic rock bands. On one hand, the album is the most consistent of theirs. On the other, is not as unique as the previous album....which I would call full fledged prog. Either way, if you liked the 70s rock scene, it's highly recommended. ------------- "and if the band your in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon" |
Posted By: jetson
Date Posted: December 23 2007 at 22:04
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well I don't like Coheed And Cambria too much, but I do consider them prog-related, just because of the concept of the band and the lengthy songs ------------- 
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Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: December 24 2007 at 06:40
The only progressive trait I have seen in Coheed and Cambria after listening to several of their albums several times, is the fact that they OOZE of pretentiousness! And not in a tongue-in-cheek way like ELP  ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 26 2007 at 10:24
| Prog? No. Prog Related? Yes. |