Steely Dan

Slartibartfast wrote: Peter wrote: And where are all of the Chinese prog acts? That's a really good question, with all those people, there surely has to be some.  Anyone out there that can enlighten us?

Edited by Peter - September 24 2007 at 19:44

Slartibartfast wrote: micky wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: I've always considered them Jazz-Rock/Fusion.  fused with popular music....Xover most likely...   off the top of my head... you have to go to some heavy hitters like Lennon/McCartney,  Jagger/RIchards,  Neil Young, Roger Waters etc.. to find a better songwriter than Donald Fagen.   Again...  judged solely on the basis of their work, and done in a bubble.. .yeah they should probably be here.  But artists... well known ones.. are not judged strictly on the music here... history/perception  is... hell... has to be taken into account.  It is with well known groups already here.. and those on the outside looking in.  Where it becomes interesting is when artists are known for something... yet their career, is in fact,  far more than that and touches HARD upon prog.  That is where additions get tricky... and yes ...I refer to a particular artist hahahhaha   I also think they became popular music but didn't necessarily fuse it in.

or simply... their music ...became popular.  We are talking about a group that sure as hell wasn't playing to get groupies, fans. or promote their albums with touring

icky micky wrote: hahahhaha... that is does not...  let me say though Peter.. .that  anti American thing is is not irrelevant, is alive, and always will be... in the larger umbrellla of  'not being known or considered as prog'  Simple as that.   I'd bet my paycheck.... that if Steely Dan were English....  they'd have been here since the day you joined.

Edited by Peter - September 24 2007 at 19:36

darqdean wrote: I won a Steely Dan single (Dallas) at an Emperor Rosko roadshow in the 70's. I played it once hoping it was like Steeleye Span - it wasn't... I never played it again.

Emperor Rosko Roadshow?Steeleye Span?

as in "All around my hat"???

Dean some things are best left unsaid pal...

Not unless "prog" just means "good."

Edited by Peter - September 24 2007 at 18:53

micky wrote: Ghost Rider wrote: There are at least three threads on the some subject.. Using the search function could be useful sometimes. BTW, there is no such category as Jazz-Rock-Related... The Admin team is responsible for additions to Prog-Related, so you should bring the matter to their attention. exactly... I'll sum up my feelings.... like I did in the last thread that dealt with Steely Dan... last week. micky wrote: cymbaline777 wrote: Steely Dan definitely belongs on the sight, the quality of production and musicianship on their albums warrants it. There are already quite a few bands that are a lot less "progressive" then Steely Dan on this site, so why not? you know... to be honest.....  they are, and if we judged SOLELY upon the music they would, they could be a textbook example of Crossover Prog....but like some other bands... they are too well known to be fairly judged on just their work alone.  They have several strikes against them.... they are american and not european... STRIKE 1...   they were active in the 70's and not generally associated with prog..or even with Art Rock.... STRIKE 2...   have several prominent fans and supporter here who don't want to push this for appearing to be fanboys..  STRIKE 3... the music itself out-progs prog in many aspects... the lyrical artiness trumps some of the sophomoric or just plain nebulous matter of some other groups..  Want some virtuosos?   Steely Dan were the best band money could buy...  anyhow...   just do what I do..and enjoy the HELL out of the albums.. whether they are here or not.

Just a note re : the 3 strikes - it is true that being american & popular is a great disadvantage when it comes to some PA members accepting that a group may be progressive. Even in their heyday, the only genre that would have fit them was the "Rolling Stone" artificial construct - Rock music, that great aggregation of pop music that wasn't 4/4 time all the time or pop culture disposable top 40, i.e. serious music. As for the lyrics & the instrumental virtuosity, one could also say the same for Stevie Wonder's output during roughly the same period. There are great lyricists in many genres (for example Steve Earle in country, Joe Strummer in punk), and prog does not really have a lock on musical virtuosos, again with many examples to be found in claasical, country, jazz, bluegrass et al.
But they are one of those bands whose music will last for generations. By their second album, they had hit their groove & never looked back.

Slartibartfast wrote: I've always considered them Jazz-Rock/Fusion.

fused with popular music....Xover most likely...

  off the top of my head... you have to go to some heavy hitters like Lennon/McCartney,  Jagger/RIchards,  Neil Young, Roger Waters etc.. to find a better songwriter than Donald Fagen.   Again...  judged solely on the basis of their work, and done in a bubble.. .yeah they should probably be here.  But artists... well known ones.. are not judged strictly on the music here... history/perception  is... hell... has to be taken into account.  It is with well known groups already here.. and those on the outside looking in.  Where it becomes interesting is when artists are known for something... yet their career, is in fact,  far more than that and touches HARD upon prog.  That is where additions get tricky... and yes ...I refer to a particular artist hahahhaha

Ghost Rider wrote: There are at least three threads on the some subject.. Using the search function could be useful sometimes. BTW, there is no such category as Jazz-Rock-Related... The Admin team is responsible for additions to Prog-Related, so you should bring the matter to their attention.

exactly... I'll sum up my feelings.... like I did in the last thread that dealt with Steely Dan... last week.

micky wrote: cymbaline777 wrote: Steely Dan definitely belongs on the sight, the quality of production and musicianship on their albums warrants it. There are already quite a few bands that are a lot less "progressive" then Steely Dan on this site, so why not? you know... to be honest.....  they are, and if we judged SOLELY upon the music they would, they could be a textbook example of Crossover Prog....but like some other bands... they are too well known to be fairly judged on just their work alone.  They have several strikes against them.... they are american and not european... STRIKE 1...   they were active in the 70's and not generally associated with prog..or even with Art Rock.... STRIKE 2...   have several prominent fans and supporter here who don't want to push this for appearing to be fanboys..  STRIKE 3... the music itself out-progs prog in many aspects... the lyrical artiness trumps some of the sophomoric or just plain nebulous matter of some other groups..  Want some virtuosos?   Steely Dan were the best band money could buy...  anyhow...   just do what I do..and enjoy the HELL out of the albums.. whether they are here or not.

Defintely not prog, but "My Old School" is a work of geniuses!!!!

While the quality and musicianship in Steely Dan's music are undeniable, to include them in PA would be a tricky proposition, and it most likely could not be done without creating a whole new subgenre (i.e. jazz-fusion related) because their music does not truly fit into any of the current subgenres. However, any band that does an impromptu Q&A session with the audience during their Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony, where the first question was, "Who can tell me who was the original drummer in the Mothers of Invention?" is pretty cool in my book and worthy of inclusion in PA!  

Edited by jimidom - September 24 2007 at 14:23