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goose 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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 Topic: is the term "song" used for prog demeaning ?
Posted: September 15 2007 at 19:25 |
 jimmy_row wrote:
chamberry wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but when I saw the tittle of the thread I thought: "Man. How pretentious can we get?!"  No Offense to the thread starter. It was just a thought.
I don't mind calling them songs.
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I completely agree
when you think about it, Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready are really just 20 minute pop songs (albeit reeeeeeaaaaaly good pop songs).
The only thing that slightly bothers me is when people refer to an instrumental track as a "song"...c'mon, a "song" has words/lyrics  |
Lieder ohne Worte?  "Piece" certainly has its place, if there's no tune or if it's a seriously epic or off-the-wall piece of music. For anything else "song" will do just fine; I think this kind of semantic precision (or should that be pedantry?) is exactly what gave prog its bad name..! 
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efoman
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 28 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 79
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 18:05 |
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Song is fine. It's a word everyone understands and uses. But it doesn't describe some prog music very well. Just another label.....kinda like "progressive".
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Time Signature
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 20 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 362
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 14:07 |
"Song"'s fine... it seems that the word has ended up being used even for instrumental pieces anyways.
"Composition" somehow seems pretentious to me, even though it probably is a better term... that's probably just my working class roots or something ;-)
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 14:02 |
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One word is as good as any other. I like to say piece, composition or track in reviews but when talking to people that would be unnecessarily pretentious.
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 11:59 |
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"Composition" is better.
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Malve87
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2005
Location: Genova, Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 08:06 |
jimidom wrote:
"Song" is fine, but I prefer "track". |
I prefer "THRAK"  
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Malve87
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2005
Location: Genova, Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 08:02 |
Yorkie X wrote:
Ever felt like you are short changing prog by referring to a piece of prog say for example "Close to the edge" and saying to your friend "check out this song" ? could it be that the term "song" is best suited to pop music, country music, aor Rap, hip hop and metal ? classical music and prog deserve perhaps a little more distinction a little more clearer way of explaining it? |
Well, actually there is a distinction, in your example you talk about "Close to The Edge", which is usually described, like more complex and longer pieces of music, as a SUITE... anyway there's nothing wrong with songs, since even progressive music is made of songs, how would you call "Wish You Were Here" or "Last Century For Man"?
Edited by Malve87 - September 14 2007 at 08:04
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10686
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 12:40 |
emdiar wrote:
Compact Oxford English Dictionary:
Song. Noun 1 a poem or other set of words set to music. 2 singing or vocal music. 3 the musical phrases uttered by some birds, whales and insects. 4 a poem, especially one in rhymed stanzas
If it's good enough for the OED, it's good enough for me. Really, how pretentious do you want prog to sound? |
As pretentious as a ten tiered kybd stand and a triple neck eight string bass ... excellent prog effort, I'll give it 5 capes!!!
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 12:01 |
Compact Oxford English Dictionary:
Song. Noun 1 a poem or other set of words set to music. 2 singing or vocal music. 3 the musical phrases uttered by some birds, whales and insects. 4 a poem, especially one in rhymed stanzas
If it's good enough for the OED, it's good enough for me. Really, how pretentious do you want prog to sound?
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 2760
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 11:40 |
schizoid_man77 wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
What would be the alternative ? |
How about composition.
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BINGO!
I personally think it is a slap in the face just to call Ctte or any other epic masterpiece a simple and crude song. The normal prog song is usually a track to me. |
Why would calling that a song make it seem "simple and crude" and "a slap in the face"?!  The word "song" does not infer simplicity or crudeness, nor is it a derogatory term or insult. I really don't understand the problem with the usage of the word song in progressive rock. Obviously, it's OK to call songs by other names, like track or composition, but that doesn't make the word "song" inferior in any way.... Progressive rock is not superior to other genres, it's just different, so there is no reason why it should be above the usage of "song".
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jimidom
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2007
Location: Houston, TX USA
Status: Offline
Points: 570
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 09:48 |
"Song" is fine, but I prefer "track".
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 09:33 |
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Songs or tunes.
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Sckxyss
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 05 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1319
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Posted: September 11 2007 at 01:19 |
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I don't use the word much at all, but I don't really care. I don't dislike it. There are often better words, but does it really matter?
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 22:12 |
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I use "song" when appropriate, but I use "piece" at least as often.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 22:09 |
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No.
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 21:46 |
chamberry wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but when I saw the tittle of the thread I thought: "Man. How pretentious can we get?!" No Offense to the thread starter. It was just a thought.
I don't mind calling them songs.
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I completely agree
when you think about it, Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready are really just 20 minute pop songs (albeit reeeeeeaaaaaly good pop songs).
The only thing that slightly bothers me is when people refer to an instrumental track as a "song"...c'mon, a "song" has words/lyrics
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 20:26 |
sleeper wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
What would be the alternative ? |
How about composition.
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BINGO!
I personally think it is a slap in the face just to call Ctte or any other epic masterpiece a simple and crude song. The normal prog song is usually a track to me.
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anekglagard
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 29 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 26
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 20:17 |
I call most "songs" on prog albums "tracks." I usually call the longer, more complex multi-part tracks "suites" or "pieces."
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I don't know about you guys, but when I saw the tittle of the thread I thought: "Man. How pretentious can we get?!" No Offense to the thread starter. It was just a thought. |
:D I love being like that!!
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 19:37 |
The term "song" is fine in general however I find it rather difficult to use it in the same sentence when talking about prog epics - the 15min+ er...compositions!!!
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 18:09 |
I don't know about you guys, but when I saw the tittle of the thread I thought: "Man. How pretentious can we get?!" No Offense to the thread starter. It was just a thought. I don't mind calling them songs.
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is the term "song" used for prog demeaning ?
