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Topic ClosedThe Decemberists

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Poll Question: Do the Decemberists Belong here?
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20 [57.14%]
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5 [14.29%]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2007 at 22:53
Originally posted by GoldenSpiral GoldenSpiral wrote:

Originally posted by chamberry chamberry wrote:

I remember seeing the Colbert Report and listening to one critic calling them an art rock band. I was pretty confused at first, but then I felt intrigued. I'm looking forward to listening to The Crane Wife.



I seem to recall the critic on Colbert calling them something like "hyper-literate prog-rockers".

Decembrists get a yes from me.
 
Yes, that was the quote. The shred-off episode was great.
 
I think they belong. The first few releases were just really creative, really good indie rock, but after The Tain, they started to exhibit prog qualities. Great, great band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2007 at 02:22
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

OK, I'll have to check them out again. I've heard a bit of "Picaresque," but thought it was just very well done indie rock.
 
Have to agree with you HT, the reason why on a previous thread I objected The Decemberists inclusion was "Picaresque", not even Prog Related.
 
But The Decemberists is a very strange band, they keep evolving and going back to the Indie base that's undeniable, the Prog elements are present im mopst albums except the above mentioned  and 5 Songs.
 
The Crane Wife is a Prog Folk Album (Except Yaknee Bayonet which is pure Indie or Brittpop made by Yanks Wink).
 
The Tain has some reminiscences of many artists including King Crimson, nice release.
 
Her Majesty is a very rare blend of Folk, Indie and Prog.
 
5 Songs: Still that Indie sound is present, but nobody can deny the Prog Folk sound. Please somebody tell me if I'm crazy, but I listen some Beatles influence? Not Pure Prog though.
 
Castaways and Cutouts: Strange Celtic oriented album, some Indie but mostly Proggire to say the least.
 
Good band. the major part of their production is Celtic oriented Prog gently blended with Indie, maybe Folk Prog is still too much and Prog Related would be the best, but don't want to give a radical opinion until I get the DVD which is said will convince me.
 
Iván
 
 
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2007 at 07:59
I only heard one track from them (but I have seen them mention often on prog sites, very recently)  on a recent free Cd compilation of Classic Rock magazine and that track was anything but prog.
 
If Their appearance in prog forums discussions is recent, I 'd have to thjink that for a group being around for seven years, only their later albums would be prog. Just an assumption of mine, though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2007 at 16:18
I have the Crane Wife cd and in my most humble of opinions, the music should earn them a spot here in PA. Just by the first track and by the title track the album has to be here, not only for length but for structure and progressiveness...it sounds like a mixture of modern alternative with Jethro Tull but better (I dislike The TullBig%20smileEmbarrassed)..... The shorter songs bear some resemblance to REM but so well crafted, and with interesting instrumentation. I greatly support the inclusion of The Decemberists in the PA.... Big%20smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2007 at 18:44
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

I only heard one track from them (but I have seen them mention often on prog sites, very recently)  on a recent free Cd compilation of Classic Rock magazine and that track was anything but prog.
 

If Their appearance in prog forums discussions is recent, I 'd have to thjink that for a group being around for seven years, only their later albums would be prog. Just an assumption of mine, though.


Well I guess Prog Folk is out of the question then.

Micky, how about your team?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2007 at 22:56
Just wanted to voice my opinion that they DEFINITELY SHOULD be here.

Clem, by the way, thanks again to you and your son for helping to introduce me to their material.

They've definitely gotten "proggier" as time goes on, and I Was Meant for the Stage, The Tain (18 minute epic!), The Mariner's Revenge Song, and the entire Crane Wife album (particularly tracks 2 and 9) all give them strong prog credentials.

Their varied and eclectic instrumentation, and intelligent and conceptually deep lyrics help their case as well.

Personally, I'm not sure what category they'd best fit in, but it seems like either Art Rock, Prog Folk (if that's still a possibility), or Prog-Related would all be suitable.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2007 at 23:08
Originally posted by ClemofNazareth ClemofNazareth wrote:


Obviously I agree. I just bought their DVD this week and that convinced me. I was on the fence before. One of my sons told me I was being too much of a purist and that if we failed to embrace the newer progressive bands here, then we run the risk of becoming an irrelevent source as a progressive archive.

BTW, "I Was Meant for the Stage" on the DVD is the one that convinced me .


I just noticed the bolded text and wanted to say that your son (probably the same one that helped me out with exploring the Decemberists) is very wise.

Another example of a way in which this website is failing in that regard (IMHO of course ... I mean no disrespect to the site, which is generally great) is the lack of inclusion of Coheed & Cambria. Hopefully at least one of these two similar bands makes it on here. (I say similar because both has roots in a sound that is generally very much the opposite of prog ... in the case of Coheed, that root sound is "emo", and in the case of the Decemberists, the root sound is relatively simple indie-folk-pop).




Edited by enteredwinter - April 09 2007 at 23:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2007 at 15:34
Originally posted by enteredwinter enteredwinter wrote:

Originally posted by ClemofNazareth ClemofNazareth wrote:


Obviously I agree. I just bought their DVD this week and that convinced me. I was on the fence before. One of my sons told me I was being too much of a purist and that if we failed to embrace the newer progressive bands here, then we run the risk of becoming an irrelevent source as a progressive archive.

BTW, "I Was Meant for the Stage" on the DVD is the one that convinced me .


I just noticed the bolded text and wanted to say that your son (probably the same one that helped me out with exploring the Decemberists) is very wise.

Another example of a way in which this website is failing in that regard (IMHO of course ... I mean no disrespect to the site, which is generally great) is the lack of inclusion of Coheed & Cambria. Hopefully at least one of these two similar bands makes it on here. (I say similar because both has roots in a sound that is generally very much the opposite of prog ... in the case of Coheed, that root sound is "emo", and in the case of the Decemberists, the root sound is relatively simple indie-folk-pop).


 
ClapClap... I mean, an example: I LOVE Blackfield... but is it really proggier than The Decemberists? Listen please to the track The Crane Wife Pt 3, it is 100% prog!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2007 at 19:20

Just today I got the CD Crane Wife and that's Prog according to me. Like it very much! Definitely Prog Folk, and very good as well (IMO ofcourse). Great album!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 07:11
Unfortunately I believe we are at a standstill. There seems to be a leaning toward admitting them, but Sean Trane runs the folk group and isn't biting. I haven't heard back from Art Rock, but frankly I personally don't think that's where they belong.

If someone wants to pursue Prog-related feel free. I won't because that isn't a genre, and those bands aren't prog, so I don't believe that is a workable alternative.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 07:13
 hahhaha... I have my personal experiences with that Bob LOL  Suggest it to the admins... if Hugues won't budge and no other sub fits him...  they can make the call about PR or not.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 07:37
I would like to add my own 2 eurocents to what Micky just said. Almost every time someone suggests a band or artist they think should be included, they do so by almost 'accusing' the site of keeping them out on purpose. Add to it that everyone's got their own idea of what is prog and what is not, as well as the recurring spiel of 'X are much proggier than Y'.

However, 'the site' is not some metaphysical entity, but it is made up of a rather large group of people, each one with their own personality and ideas as to what prog is. Personally, I see myself as very broad-minded, rather than a 'prog purist' - but it is also true that I can't make decisions on behalf of other Collabs, especially if they are leaders of genre teams.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 08:04
Micky (touché), Raf (and Hugues),

If I come off sounding accusatory, please accept my apologies. I'm actually irritated (which is a completely different but equally disagreeable state of mind), and for some of the same reasons all three of you have raised at one time or another. So there is no point belaboring this.

Like I said, if someone wants to pursue bumping them to the admins, I'm quite sure they'll get admitted to PR. I simply lack the conviction to do that myself. PR isn't a genre, it's a tepid compromise, the bands in it would be somewhere else or not here at all were it not for one or two willful personalities in most of those band's cases. And since I would have to become one of those willful personalities to continue pursuing this inclusion, I simply choose not to. For me this remains a hobby - I have other places to apply my true passions.


Edited by ClemofNazareth - April 13 2007 at 08:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 08:07
bob.... that's why (behind the scenes) I suggested having admin oversight to the genre teams.   I lead two of them.... but we can't  forget that this site is OURS... and subs are not the fiefs of teams hahhaha.  If the admins said to add or not add something... I would respect that.

Edited by micky - April 13 2007 at 08:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 08:12
Bob, I'm afraid you misunderstood my post... Since I didn't quote you, I thought it was clear I was referring to other people and other opinions I'd seen on other occasions. If you look at the other posts in the thread, you'll see that quite clearly.

Personally, as I said earlier, I don't know the band but for the fact they are from my favourite city in the world, as well as from a couple of tracks I heard on MySpace. However, I trust your judgment enough to accept that they deserve to be included in a fully prog category. As far as I can remember, I have never been responsible for stonewalling a possible addition, therefore I was speaking in a general sense.

However, seen as I don't seem to be able to get my point across, I wonder whether it's productive for me to continue posting my opinions, since they do more harm than good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2007 at 08:20
I hate being right... in my PM to a member of the admin team. I said that this problem is not going to go away.  We respect genres teams... hell I'm the biggest proponent of them. That respect has to be mutual.. especially when ... if I may be blunt.. when SC's who work for this site suggest the bands.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2007 at 21:04
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

I hate being right... in my PM to a member of the admin team. I said that this problem is not going to go away.  We respect genres teams... hell I'm the biggest proponent of them. That respect has to be mutual.. especially when ... if I may be blunt.. when SC's who work for this site suggest the bands.  
 
I agree.
In two cases lately, I voted NO on two bands and one of them was proposed by Clem (Plastic People of the Universe). The other was supported by Sean (L'ensemble Raye).
But I said in both cases, that if my objection is in the only one in the way of addition and if the person proposing has presented a case for addition, I will not object to them being added, even though I do not agree with it.
I think that me not agreeing with a band being here is a small price to pay and makes much more sense to have them here for people to know of them, than for me to be "right" and nto have them here. That is if I am alone on this.
And maybe my subjectivity prevents me from seeing the prog in that particular band.
The same goes for other bands in PA I don't think should be in. If there are so many people who think it's prog and want them here and present a good case, let them have it.
 
As for this band, I have The Crane Wife. I think it's a good album, and like it and while it had it prog moments (The Island, The Crane Wife 1,2) the rest is mostly prog related to me. But again, as there's such strong feelings here and Bob did present his case, I'm fine with it.
Again, this is good (even very good) music and a case for prog-related is beyond a doubt. As for more, I want to listen to their other relaeses and read more opinions.
 
Another thing, I want you to read what the band wrote in their website:
 
"
Decemberists songwriter and frontman Colin Meloy first came across the story of The Crane Wife several years ago, in the children’s section of a bookstore in Portland. A venerable Japanese folk tale that has been handed down in countless variations and translations through the centuries (as venerable folk tales are wont to do), the deceptively simple story has stayed with Meloy ever since.

“I thought that it would be a great thing to try to put it to some sort of song form, be it a single tune or something longer,” he recalls. “So I struggled with that for years until finally I realized that it just needed more parts and set about building those.”

He had plenty to occupy him in the meantime: the past three years have seen his band, The Decemberists rise to the first rank of the indie music world with a series of bold, beautiful albums, including 2005’s Picaresque and Her Majesty, The Decemberists (2003). On these albums, Meloy’s crafty compositions marry an infallible melodic knack with a venturesome lyrical palette equally suitable for painting fantastical songs full of sea captains, legionnaires, chimney sweeps and seekers of all kinds.

Led by these songs, and by a group dynamic that embraces experimentation even as it celebrates classic pop and folk forms -- to say nothing of klezmer, Irish jig, sea chantey, and prog rock -- The Decemberists are firmly established as a completely original happening in the world of contemporary indie rock: sold out tours across the nation, widespread popular and critical acclaim, and an aesthetic all their own.

Still, as their star rose in the demimonde, Meloy noticed that the band -- himself, multi-instrumentalist Chris Funk, keyboardist Jenny Conlee, bassist Nate Query and drummer John Moen -- had its eyes trained on broader horizons. “It wasn’t like we needed to force the change,” he explains, “but the change was happening. I could tell when I was sitting down with the guitar… what was coming out wasn’t the same old stuff.”

The stuff that was coming out would become the band’s most ambitious record to date. Drawing on the long-simmering inspiration of the Crane Wife story, Meloy has written a collection of songs that leap off from the folk tale and into a rich, complex musical landscape. It’s tempting to think of The Crane Wife as a concept album, but that’s not really accurate. The album is more like an extrapolation of the folk tale, a re-imagining of its themes on a broader canvas. For every song that touches directly on Meloy’s interpretation of the Japanese legend (gorgeous album opener “The Crane Wife 3,” or its prequel, “The Crane Wife 1 and 2”), several more take their cue from the fabric of the story, only to stretch outward into other visions.

Sometimes the visions are of bleak urban murderers on the prowl in “The Shankhill Butchers”; sometimes the waterlogged mingling of love and death in “Summersong.” And though death, war, greed, and murder enshroud the album’s thematic framework, The Crane Wife is a resounding celebration of life. No matter how dark the words may get, the album’s spirit is buoyed by boundless energy and an expansive musical vocabulary. Styles and influences abound -- shades of Pink Floyd, Yes, and Fairport Convention trade off with more anthemic touchstones like middle-period R.E.M., The Waterboys, and even early U2 -- but the sound of The Decemberists is unique in contemporary pop music.

This blend of dark and light was informed by the recording process, during which the band was able, for the first time in its career, to take time building their arrangements in a well-equipped studio setting in Portland. Granted the luxury of preparation, the band and co-producers Chris Walla (guitarist/producer for Death Cab for Cutie) and Tucker Martine (Laura Veirs) cultivated an atmosphere of total creative freedom for the two-and-a-half months the group spent making The Crane Wife.

The album’s unquestionable centerpiece is the 13-minute murder ballad “The Island,” with its subsections “Come and See,” “The Landlord’s Daughter,” and “You’ll Not Feel the Drowning.” As the lyrics chronicle a tale of abduction, rape, and murder, the instruments chart a far-flung course through multiple musical genres and influences. In short, a masterpiece in itself. However, set alongside the urgent, anguished rock of “When the War Came,” and perfect pop confections like “O, Valencia” and “Sons and Daughters,” it begins to seem like a statement of purpose.





“There was a real strong sense among the band that we were not going to try to make a record that somebody would typically make for a major label,” Meloy explains. “We didn’t want the fact that we had signed onto a major label change our approach or aesthetic. In some ways, I think it pushed us farther to the left, farther out of the comfortable Decemberists zone.”

The Crane Wife may be many things -- a deconstructed folk tale, an intimate epic, a great new record by an essential American band -- but it could never be called typical.
"
 
 
Also read the DPRP review of the album - http://www.dprp.net/reviews/200705.php#decemberists
 
 
Think about it.
 Smile
 


Edited by avestin - April 14 2007 at 22:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2007 at 23:27
Clap Great post.
 
I agree. I would say that anybody who hears Crane Wife will understand why many of us ask fot the band's inclusion in the Archives. For me, of folk they only have the main tracks in the album, but thay should belong in the art-rock category, they're way past the related category.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2007 at 19:56
...have been added under Prog Folk.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2007 at 20:11
^^ Great news.  The Crane Wife is currently one of my favorite albums.
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