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Topic ClosedItalian Progressive Rock as a subgenre

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Poll Question: What is your opinion on that?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
16 [23.88%]
46 [68.66%]
2 [2.99%]
3 [4.48%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Tony R View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2006 at 17:57
The argument for RPI still seems to be one of facilitating discovery of Italian bands mixed with a vague sense that Italian Prog has some indefinable quality that makes it different.

Can we raise the bar,and ask for researched or contemporary anecdotal discussion containing factual support for the genre,something that nails this beyond pure opinion and wishful-thinking?

If we are going to support RPI or Italian prog 100% then some bands must surely go into other genres and as Sean Trane quite logically states,wouldnt non-Italian bands qualify for this genre,in much the same way that the Krautrock and Canterbury genres operate?
    

Edited by Tony R - September 09 2006 at 17:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2006 at 18:04
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

The argument for RPI still seems to be one of facilitating discovery of Italian bands mixed with a vague sense that Italian Prog has some indefinable quality that makes it different.

Can we raise the bar,and ask for researched or contemporary anecdotal discussion containing factual support for the genre,something that nails this beyond pure opinion and wishful-thinking?

If we are going to support RPI or Italian prog 100% then some bands must surely go into other genres and as Sean Trane quite logically states,wouldnt non-Italian bands qualify for this genre,in much the same way that the Krautrock and Canterbury genres operate?
    
 
Good point Tony and as a fact I believe there's an Italian School mainly inside Symphonic, Argentinean Prog (Hey most Argentineans are Italian descendants) is strongly influenced by Italian School.
 
But schools or influences should be mentioned inside each genre, we plan to mention some schools or currents of Symphonic Prog in our definition later, like the Classic Symphonic (Mostly the pioneers), Italian School, Scandinavian School (Mainly in the 90's), French School, etc.
 
But as an integral part of Symphonic, not as independent sub-genres.
 
Again, we don't yet know how we will do it, but Raffaella, Ht I believe even Micky and myself have already spoken about this posibility in previous ocasions.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 09 2006 at 18:05
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2006 at 20:51
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

The argument for RPI still seems to be one of facilitating discovery of Italian bands mixed with a vague sense that Italian Prog has some indefinable quality that makes it different.

Can we raise the bar,and ask for researched or contemporary anecdotal discussion containing factual support for the genre,something that nails this beyond pure opinion and wishful-thinking?

If we are going to support RPI or Italian prog 100% then some bands must surely go into other genres and as Sean Trane quite logically states,wouldnt non-Italian bands qualify for this genre,in much the same way that the Krautrock and Canterbury genres operate?
    



ahh Tony your wisdom is equaled by your smartassery... something I still strive for... hahaha

a group is being formed to serve that exact purpose...  give us some time.. we do have personal lives and work... and we'll deliver the goods for you and the rest of the admins... Clap

I also couldn't agree more and is a given that other 'primary' RPI influened groups from other groups will be included in it. Good points.

The thread served a nice purpose of seeing how is with us.. and who is against us LOL  and the numbers... pfff..  this  poll I certain  is no different than  any others that the vast majority.. vote... and then read through posts...   this for you... the admins to decide you all run the site.. we just do the work and make your decisions easier LOL  Good post Tony.. and I'm off to see if I can piece together my modem...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2006 at 21:59
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

knowing the Italian situation firsthand, I feel qualified to talk about the uniqueness of the Italian prog phenomenon in comparison to other countries.


I voted yes.  A quote from Peter Hamill from the liner notes of Pawn Hearts would seem to back up what GR is saying:

"Our music was kind of operatic and dramatic and it chimed with the Italian soul and chimed with the scene in Italy at the time.  In the early 70's Italy was going through many changes and a whole new country was emerging.  We had been adopted by some people in the country as being part of this new social movement."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2006 at 22:07
Originally posted by moonlapse moonlapse wrote:

Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

knowing the Italian situation firsthand, I feel qualified to talk about the uniqueness of the Italian prog phenomenon in comparison to other countries.


I voted yes.  A quote from Peter Hamill from the liner notes of Pawn Hearts would seem to back up what GR is saying:

"Our music was kind of operatic and dramatic and it chimed with the Italian soul and chimed with the scene in Italy at the time.  In the early 70's Italy was going through many changes and a whole new country was emerging.  We had been adopted by some people in the country as being part of this new social movement."


damn... good thing I have opened up in that album in months... or I be pissed for not thinking of adding that first LOL  Nice word from one who ....hahahha.. would know a thing or two about the Italian scene.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 05:46
Yes, Micky, you can discuss it endless or write huge statements but this is indeed what it is really all about:
 
"Our music was kind of operatic and dramatic and it chimed with the Italian soul and chimed with the scene in Italy at the time.  In the early 70's Italy was going through many changes and a whole new country was emerging.  We had been adopted by some people in the country as being part of this new social movement."
 
                    Nothing can beat these words ClapClapClap !!!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 12:19
Originally posted by moonlapse moonlapse wrote:



"Our music was kind of operatic and dramatic and it chimed with the Italian soul and chimed with the scene in Italy at the time.  In the early 70's Italy was going through many changes and a whole new country was emerging.  We had been adopted by some people in the country as being part of this new social movement."
 
GFor God's sake Moonlapse, Peter GHammill and Genesis were survibing in the early 70's only because of Italy and about his quote...well it could also had said:
 
"Our music was kind of operatic and dramatic and it chimed with the PORTUGUESE soul and chimed with the scene in PORTUGAL at the time.  In the early 70's PORTUGAL was going through many changes and a whole new country was emerging.  We had been adopted by some people in the country as being part of this new social movement."
 
Portugak has also a soul and a Prog scene ignored by most people here and in the 70's was going through a lot of changes plus accepted Prog Rock.
 
But that quote could also have said:
 
"Our music was kind of operatic and dramatic and it chimed with the Peruvian soul and chimed with the scene in Perú at the time.  In the early 70's Perú was going through many changes and a whole new country was emerging.  We had been adopted by some people in the country as being part of this new social movement."
 
In the early 70's Perú was going through a revoilution that tried to ban Prog Rock, has a clear and obvious sould and ethnic sound that blends perfectly with Prog and a lot opf People embraced Prog having lots of good bans.
 
The phrase aodf Peter Hammill says nothing except he likes Italian Prog, they were accepted in the 70's and they have a special soul
 
Something that can be said about a lot of countries.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 10 2006 at 12:52
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 12:29
Ivan, sorry to have to contradict you, but I'd like to remind you that I was there at the time, and what Peter Hammill says in that booklet (which I also have) is 100% true. There is no way to compare the situation of Portugal in the early '70s with that of Italy.

Anyway, this is only for the sake of historical correctness. As I said very clearly in my introductory post, I am not taking sides, but rather collecting information. As a matter of fact, I didn't even vote in the poll, in order to be as impartial as possible. However, having been an eyewitness, I am in a position to say that the Italian musical scene in that period was indeed quite unique - even though this is a simple, factual statement, and not an endorsement of one or the other point of view.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 12:38
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[QUOTE=moonlapse]
For God's sake Moonlapse, Peter GHammill and Genesis were survibing in the early 70's only because of Italy:
 


Genesis?

Exactly the point.  Why not other countries?

You say "it could be said this or could be said that"...well, no, it couldn't.  Because, like you say, they survived only because of Italy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 13:01
Originally posted by moonlapse moonlapse wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[QUOTE=moonlapse]
For God's sake Moonlapse, Peter GHammill and Genesis were survibing in the early 70's only because of Italy:
 


Genesis?

Exactly the point.  Why not other countries?

You say "it could be said this or could be said that"...well, no, it couldn't.  Because, like you say, they survived only because of Italy.
 
Italy had a special love for Progressive Rock, nobody can deny this, I wouldn't even try.
 
But this phrase only describes what happened in Italy, there was a social movement in most Europe and Latin America, Prog was embraced by most of the world.
 
Raffaella says the truth, it happened in Italy, but the same social movement was happening in Spain, Portugal and most Latin America,
 
Argentina had a incredible number of Prog bands in the 70's
 
 
Each band with their special sound and soul but it was too far away from Europe so England never noticed or cared and if you notived this list doesn't include iconic bands as El Reloj, Seru Giran or Pablo el Enterrador (Even when the last two are from the late 70's)
 
The end of Vietnam war, the Watergate case, are examples of the social movement in USA, Kansas added Hard Rock and Country music to Prog that's........adding their soul and ethnic identity.
 
But at the end it doesn't matter, Peter Hammill loved Italian Prog, I do also, but I also love French, Dutch, Argentinean and Portugal Prog.
 
Even Greece had a special Social movement and Aphrodite's Child is from there, 666 has to be one of the first Conceptual non Rock Opera album ever.
 
Peter Hammill loved Italian Prog, that's great, but this doesn't mean they are the only country in the world with a Prog scene so special that deserve being the only one in the world that has their own sub-genre, at least not IMHO.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 10 2006 at 13:39
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 13:03
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Ivan, sorry to have to contradict you, but I'd like to remind you that I was there at the time, and what Peter Hammill says in that booklet (which I also have) is 100% true. There is no way to compare the situation of Portugal in the early '70s with that of Italy.

exactly and have always found such comparisons to be.... laughable...  some people just do not seem to want to accept that Italy has a thriving independent prog movement that...yes did sustain through it's voracioius appetite groups that would have staved or played town halls in England.  That is I guess what is going to have to be shown... and addition to the unique nature of the music.

Anyway, this is only for the sake of historical correctness. As I said very clearly in my introductory post, I am not taking sides, but rather collecting information. As a matter of fact, I didn't even vote in the poll, in order to be as impartial as possible. However, having been an eyewitness, I am in a position to say that the Italian musical scene in that period was indeed quite unique - even though this is a simple, factual statement, and not an endorsement of one or the other point of view.

exactly.  and I, for one,  understand where you are coming from... your knowledge  is welcome and needed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 13:27
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Ivan, sorry to have to contradict you, but I'd like to remind you that I was there at the time, and what Peter Hammill says in that booklet (which I also have) is 100% true. There is no way to compare the situation of Portugal in the early '70s with that of Italy.
 
I agree Raffaella, but this also happened in Argentina as I showed lines above, but Europe didn't cared for the music of South America.
 
I lived in those years and I was wittnes of the movement in that country, SArgentina was the place from where we all had to get our albums if you couldn't afford a trip to USA.
 
No country is isolated, the social movements are worldwide, we were living a pre revolutionary reality in South America, social movements influenced by Cuban Revolution were strong, but neither Peter Hammill, Peter Gabriel or Pete Sinfield visited this part of the world, so nobody knew what was happening.

Anyway, this is only for the sake of historical correctness. As I said very clearly in my introductory post, I am not taking sides, but rather collecting information. As a matter of fact, I didn't even vote in the poll, in order to be as impartial as possible. However, having been an eyewitness, I am in a position to say that the Italian musical scene in that period was indeed quite unique - even though this is a simple, factual statement, and not an endorsement of one or the other point of view.
 
I absolutely respect your position and don't envy it but the truth is that every country had their own reality, people here doesn't know about El Reloj or Seru Giram from Argentina or Traffic Sound and Laghonia of Perú.
 
Each and every country is unique, some have more bands than others, some are closer to England so it was easier to notice them, but Prog was a worldwide movement.
 
Thank you.
 
Iván

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 13:57
Ivan, I'm not going to keep on contradict you in this thread... You're a sesitive reviewer and you know South America prog scene... So, please, try to write a "blog" about it... Let us know what are the most important bands... What bands supported Sendero Luminoso or Tupamaros (if there were at all)? What was the influence of Latin America folklore in SA prog scene? How reacted the political establishment to progrock? How strong was the censorship in the different countries and how did it work? What are the subject of the lyrics? What are the common points to all this bands?... I think that this could be helpful for the site...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 14:04
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Ivan, sorry to have to contradict you, but I'd like to remind you that I was there at the time, and what Peter Hammill says in that booklet (which I also have) is 100% true. There is no way to compare the situation of Portugal in the early '70s with that of Italy.
 
I agree Raffaella, but this also happened in Argentina as I showed lines above, but Europe didn't cared for the music of South America.
 
I lived in those years and I was wittnes of the movement in that country, SArgentina was the place from where we all had to get our albums if you couldn't afford a trip to USA.
 
No country is isolated, the social movements are worldwide, we were living a pre revolutionary reality in South America, social movements influenced by Cuban Revolution were strong, but neither Peter Hammill, Peter Gabriel or Pete Sinfield visited this part of the world, so nobody knew what was happening.

Anyway, this is only for the sake of historical correctness. As I said very clearly in my introductory post, I am not taking sides, but rather collecting information. As a matter of fact, I didn't even vote in the poll, in order to be as impartial as possible. However, having been an eyewitness, I am in a position to say that the Italian musical scene in that period was indeed quite unique - even though this is a simple, factual statement, and not an endorsement of one or the other point of view.
 
I absolutely respect your position and don't envy it but the truth is that every country had their own reality, people here doesn't know about El Reloj or Seru Giram from Argentina or Traffic Sound and Laghonia of Perú.
 
Each and every country is unique, some have more bands than others, some are closer to England so it was easier to notice them, but Prog was a worldwide movement.
 
Thank you.
 
Iván



hmmm... last post from me on this subject before phase two of this debate.... as a matter of fact will ask GR to close the thread... the debate here...is pointless....

Ivan.... what are are doing is the cyber equivalent of jumping up and down and crying it's not fair...

the question... on it's own merits.. does RPI merit being it's own sub-genre.. your posts ..when they actually deal with the subject at hand... support our claim..  what you insist upon is dragging every other nation that had prog groups.. and some that might have even had a central movement into this thread.  That is immaterial to the question at hand.  Does Italy merit .... yes or no.... I will show it does  having assembled over 40 websites with info to back me already. That will take time to go through obviously....   as far as the others.. that is for others to show... and not of concern at all for this question.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 14:13
Before this thread turnes into total confusion, I would like to post my final contribution here, a bit in the spirit of the last pages Wink :
 

               SEVENTIES ITALIAN PROGROCK:

 

                                (GLI) ALLUMINOGENI — Scolopendra

- Here's an often overlooked gem from the Italian Seventies prog! The seven compositions on this debut album are a very dynamic and alternating blend of Sixties, blues, rock and classic featuring excellent work on the Hammond organ and also great Italian vocals and raw electric guitar. The one moment you are carried away by bombastic a church organ sound, the other there is a bluesy electric guitar or pleasant and warm Sixties atmosphere, very exciting!

 

                                       ALPHATAURUS — Alphataurus

- Alphataurus evokes very pleasant memories becaue this is such a captivating album. Most of the tracks are long featuring great work on guitar and keyboards (mainly Hammond and Moog), the vocals (with a theatrical undertone) are strong and the rhythm-section sounds powerful and dynamic. Enjoy this wonderful blend of rock, blues, symphonic and psychedelia with hints from ELP and Uriah Heep.

 

                                           APOTEOSI - Apoteosi

- This is a fine one-shot Italian progrock band from the Seventies. The five tracks sound melodic and alternating, the female vocals are wonderful. In the mellow pieces you hear a lot of strings, piano and flute, this often gives the music strong classical overtones. The more up-tempo interludes contain a strong harmony between the keyboards and guitar, the solowork is also very worth listening, the guitar has some psychedelic hints. This album has many beautiful moments, thanks to the subtle and inventive approach from these good musicians.

 

                                         (IL) BALLETTO DI BRONZO-Ys

- In my opinion this is one of the most original Italian progrock albums from the Seventies but I'm sure that the music will not be everybody's cup of tea because of the complexity and variety of styles: a bombastic intro featuring a choir, psychedelic organ, ominous vocals, raw guitarplay, celestial Mellotron, propulsive drums, lots of surprising musical ideas, many accellarations and shifting moods and the style varies from jazzrock or avant-garde to symphonic or classical. If you are up to a stunning musical progrock adventure, this one is yours!

 

                    BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO - Seguendo Le Tracce

- This live-CD from 1975 by the Italian progrock legend BANCO showcases the band at their artistic pinnacle. Their sound is based upon the magnificent, omnipresent duo- keyboardplay (organ, synthesizers, acoustic – and electric piano, strings) by the Nocenzi brothers and the powerful voice from Francesco Di Giacomo, loaded with pathos. The tracking-list is great featuring “R.I.P.” (beautiful interlude delivering moving piano, vocals and acoustic guitar), “L’Alberto Del Pane” (splendid varied keyboards), “La danza dei gandi Rettilli” (a swinging blend of symphonic, blues and jazz), “Passagio”, “Non mi rompete” (pleasant acoustic guitarplay), “Dopo … niente e piu lo stesso (wonderful sumptuous keyboards and great vocals), “Traccia II” (fine acoustic pianoplay along trumpet and synthesizer) and an extended version (at about 26 minutes) of “Metamorfosi” (including a long and virtuosic piano solo and lots of exciting keyboards and shifting moods). If you do not own records from BANCO, this one is a perfect start. I have a lot of records from BANCO in my collection but this will be my favorite!

 

                                 BIGLIETTO PER L'INFERNO - Live 1974

- Biglietto Per L'Inferno is an interesting progrock band from the early Seventies featuring members who play a wide range of instruments: flute, flugelhorn, Gemorgan, Minimoog, Hammond organ, piano and acoustic – and electric guitars along drums and bass. As you would expect the music from Biglietto Per L’Inferno (Italian for Ticket To Hell) is varied and contains many shifting moods. The first song consists of a brass section, organ runs and fiery electric guitar. The other five tracks has echoes from Jethro Tull including cheerful rhythms, mellow organ and lots of flute play. The Italian vocals sound inspired. The recording quality is like a good bootleg and the compositions has more the structure of a jam. If you like Jehtro Tull and the early Italian progrock, this CD is recommended.

 

                                        CELESTE – Principe Di Un Giorno

- This album from 1976 is a very wonderful one but don’t expect the usual exciting keyboard excertions, complex breaks or unexpected shifting moods. No, the music on the seven elaborate compositions sound quite mellow and laidback with some Medieval and jazzy influences and fine work on acoustic guitars, flute, saxophone and often a Mellotron sound that evokes the great days of early King Crimson!

 

                                         CHERRY FIVE-Cherry Five

-  Cherry Five included three musicians who later founded Goblin.The music on Cherry Five’s eponymous album from ’75 is very YES-oriented but the keyboards sound more virtuosic than bands like DRUID, ENGLAND or MIRTHRANDIR. The album is a real treat for all progrock lovers: strong and fluent compositions, very melodic and flowing with many good ideas. The emphasis is on the keyboards (Hammond organ and vintage synthesizers), especially the ‘Tronmaniacs’ will be delighted! This is one of the gems of Italian progrock from the Seventies, a bit overlooked due to the attention for PFM, Le Orme, Banco and Goblin.

 

                         (I) DIK DIK-Suite Per Una Donna Assolutamente Relativa

- This is the only progressive album I Dik Dik (the name is derived from an African gazelle) made but it is an acclaimed one by the progrock aficionados and progheads. The 11 compositions sound melodic and alternating, from folky to bombastic prog. Although every musician plays very well the focus is on the magnificent keyboard play: sparkling piano, swinging clavinet, sensational synthesizer flights, strong organ floods and majestic Mellotron eruptions. If you like the wonderful sound of the Sixties (warm vocals, acoustic guitars, organ) blended with the progressive sound from the early Seventies (The Moody Blues, The Strawbs), this is a cd to check out!!

 

                                   FORMULA 3 - Sognando e Risognando

- This third album is my favorite one, mainly because it has the most symphonic rock climates of all four records. The Hammond organ is omnipresent, it often evokes Keith Emerson but also Deep Purple, due to the fiery electric guitarplay. The music is compelling and contains some propulsive accellarations featuring organ and electric guitar. At some moments Formula Tre goes back to the atmosphere of their two albums with a more psychedelic attitude (sweeping drums and ominous keyboards).

 

                          GOBLIN - Il Fantastico Viaggio Del Bagarozzo Mark

- I've never been a fan from Goblin but I appreciate this album very much because of its pure symphonic rock sound. It contains for the first time vocals and the sound is great. The eight compositions feature strong and beautiful interplay between a fiery and flowing electric guitar and sumptuous keyboards (lots of organ and some flashy synthesizers) with echoes from a certain Keith Emerson. Some songs are different and even contain rock and roll elements. Many progheads consider this album as the best Goblin ever produced.

 

                                          JACULA - Anno Demoni

- This is one of the weirdest Italian progrock albums from the Seventies. The prime mover is Antonio Bartoccetti (guitar, bass, vocals), his almost hallucinating compositions are based upon seances and the cooperation of a medium! Female singer Fiamma Dello Spirito (also flute and violin) sounds like a nice witch, keyboardplayer acts like the alter ego of Christopher Lee with his chilling church organ sound and medium Franz Parthenzy seems to come straight from hell. If you like horror and progrock and you want to sublimate some satanic urges, this CD could be a deadly serious experience!

 

                                     LATTE E MIELE - Aquile E Scoiattoli

- Latte E Miele is an acclaimed Italian band from the Seventies. On their first two albums we can enjoy cascades of shifting moods, breaks, accellarations and the climates changes from classical overtones to ELP-like keyboard work or even heavy metal. This third album is the most accessible one, I trace echoes from the early Genesis (especially the keyboards). The long and impressive composition "Pavane" (almost 25 minutes) reminds me of The Enid, Sky and Craft. If you prefer more complex and adventurous prog, I prefer the first two albums to start with but if you like more melodic prog, this is one to discover.

 

                   LOCANDA DELLE FATE - Forse Le Lucciole Non Si Amano Più

- In the other reveiws I read a lot of references but in my opinion Genesis is the most significant, especially Banks-like organplay and Hackett-like guitarwork, even the flute reminds me of Peter Gabriel. The music is drenched in the symphonic rock tradition from the Seventies, delivering very melodic and beautiful songs but the atmosphere is often very mellow. No doubt, this is very good Italian progrock but to me it sounds a bit too subdued.

 

                                  MUSEO ROSENBACH - Zarathustra

- This album had such euphoric reviews that I decided to order it in the early Nineties. Well, very soon I was mesmerized by the splendid title track, a 20 minute killer composition with echoes from GENESIS and KING CRIMSON. The foundation of this wonderful and moving song is a beautiful theme (like “Firth Of Fifth” from GENESIS) that returns in different climates (from dreamy to heavy and bombastic) and with different colouring of the instruments. The interplay between the electric guitar, keyboards (Hammond organ, synthesizer and piano), rhythm- section (propulsive and perfectly timed drumming) and strong and expressive Italian vocals is very captivating. It all creates a constant tension, topped by majestic eruptions of the Mellotron. These moments gives the title track the same compelling impact as it does on the early albums from KING CRIMSON, goose bumps all over my body! The other three (shorter) tracks sound flowing and powerful with a lot of Hammond organ and guitar play with echoes from Steve HACKETT. For me this CD is the absolute highlight of the lush and varied Italian prog rock scene in the Seventies. A MUST!

 

                                   NEW TROLLS - Searching For A Land

- This Italian progrock band has made a lot of albums, my favorite is this 2-LP (released on a 1-CD), what an exciting music! The tracks are very alternating: Bowie-like vocals in "Searching", warm twanging acoustic guitar in "Giga", splendid Mellotron waves in "In St. Peter's day", beautiful classical inspired pianoplay in "Once that I preayed" and raw and heavy rock with hints from Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple in "To Edith" (powerful Hammond and fiery electric guitar) and and "Lying here" (Ian Gillan-like vocals). Only few albums sounds so varied and captivating, this one deserve more attention!

 

                                           NUOVA IDEA - Clowns

- This is Nuova Idea their final effort, to me it sounds as their best one. The line-up has been changed, the music delivers a raw organ -and guitarsound that only has a few mellow moments. The vocals are powerful but sometimes a bit too screamy. The tiltetrack is the most cativating and alternating composition. Due to some experimental ideas (featuring brass instruments) Nuova Idea is not always a band with an accesible approach. Nonetheless, this is one of the better releases from the Italian progrock label Mellow records.

 

                                             ORME, LE - Collage

- After two psychedelic/Sixties inspired albums this third record was a true progrock gem. The 7 compositions features great Hammond organ play (Keith Emerson, early Jane and Ramses), very distinctive and warm vocals (with a melancholical undertone), some acoustic guitar and a dynamic rhythm-section. A very good element in the music from Le Orme is the tension between the mellow and bombastic climates. And Le Orme delivers a lot of musical surprises like a kind of Blackmore/Gillan-Page/Plant duel from the bass and Hammond organ in "Cemiento armato", wonderful Hammond organ work (from psychedelic to church organ) in "Evasione totale" and exciting interplay between organ and drums in "Era inverno". This album is not as refined like "Felona e sorona", "Uomo di pezza" or "Contapuntti" but it is very worth listening.

 

                                             ORME, LE - Felona e Sorona

- During the Seventies Le ORME turned from a very ELP inspired band into a more refined prog rock formation with a distinctive sound. The concept-album “Felona E Sorona” is their acclaimed ‘magnum opus’ featuring nine alternating and elaborated compositions with lush and varied keyboards (piano, organ, synthesizers and string-ensemble), wonderful changing climates and a strong and dynamic rhythm-section. The final part is one of the most compelling ‘grand finales’ I’ve ever heard: slow and fat Moog runs, repetitive organ chords, a powerful drumbeat, again slow and fat Moog sounds, then a propulsive rhythm- section, culminating in a very moving sumptuous climated featuring dazzling Moog flights and great string-sounds, what a mind blowing experience. This is the amazing Italians Seventies prog rock at its best!

 

                                                    LE ORME-Live Orme

- If I take a look at the Italian section of my progrock collection, it’s a battle between PFM and Le Orme to be honoured as my favorite band. I tend to choose (early) Le Orme because of their splendid compositorial qualities, their huge musical skills, their great dynamics and their perfect blend of technical and emotional elements. In the mid-Nineties I traced this 2-live-CD (at the level of a good bootleg) in the catalogue of Musea, the known French progrock label/mail-order service. Eventually it turned out to be both one of my most expensive orders (almost US $ 45,-) as one of my most precious Italian progrock documents because “Live Orme” contains great renditions of all the ‘classics’ like “Contrappunti”, “Maggio”, “Gioco di bimba”, “Era inverno”, “Truck of fire”, “Cementi armato”, “Collage” and the surprising (but unfortunaltely short) covers from Led Zeppelin (“Whole lotta love”) and Jethro Tull (“Aqualung”). I’m delighted about the wonderful changing atmospheres, from warm and melancholic (featuring the great, very distinctive Italians vocals and pleasant acoustic guitar) to compelling and bombastic in the vein of The Nice and ELP, what a stunning keyboardplay delivering lots of exciting Hammond organ and a dynamic rhytm-section.

 

                                           PANNA FREDDA - Uno

- This is an Italian one-shot band that made only one album entitled "Uno". You don't need an Italian dictionary to understand that this means 'one' but to my surprise Panna Fredda showcases two faces on their album! The first and final part features swelling and moving organ play and raw guitar work, to me it sounds a bit like early Eloy. It all sounds very sumptuous, mainly due to the heavy Hammond organ chords. But halfway this album Panna Fredda changes their sound to very mellow featuring acoustic guitar, sensitive vocals and medieval-like keyboards, wonderful. An unique album!

 

 PREMIATA FORNERIA MARCONI (PFM) - Storia Di Un Minuto

- The debut album “Storia di un minuto” has strong echoes from early King Crimson, especially the ‘feminine’ side. In general the seven compositions (all around the 5 minutes) contain beautiful and mellow climates featuring lots of acoustic guitar, soaring keyboards and warm vocals, interfered by bombastic Mellotron drenched eruptions and fat synthesizers. At other moments you can hear shifting moods with fiery electric guitar and swinging rhythms. The highlight is the track “Dove-Quando Part Two” delivering a great variety and a wide range of instruments, from flute, piano and violin to organ and electric guitar. It's only 34 minutes but i prefer quality above quantity, this is a classic album so I continue the five star party!!

 

       PREMIATA FORNERIA MARCONI (PFM) - Per Un Amico

- On the second album “Per un amico” PFM has even matured their sound: wonderful symphonic rock featuring acoustic instruments like the piano, violin, acoustic guitar and flute along electrified instruments like the Mellotron and the Minimoog synthesizer. The climates are more frequently changing including up-tempo rhyhtms with electric guitar or a surprising church-organ intermezzo. The songs are very melodic and harmonic and the vocals are powerful and expressive. Another classic and again five stars!!

 

    PREMIATA FORNERIA MARCONI (PFM) - Photos Of Ghosts

- On their third album we read that Pete Sinfield from King Crimson produced this record and also delivered the lyrics, not really a coincidence if you listen to the main influence for PFM! All songs sound strong and lush and are tasteful elaborated, it sounds as a pleasant mix of folk, classical and symphonic. The violinplay is excellent! A great song is the long “Il barchetto”, it contains lots of majestic Mellotron and sparkling classical piano work. I agree with the reviewers who wished that this album was sung in their native and more expressive language, so one star less than a masterpiece!!

 

      PREMIATA FORNERIA MARCONI (PFM) - L'isola di niente

- On the fourth album “L’isola di niente” (the English version is entitled “The world became the world”) I trace again an obvious influence from early King Crimson, and again the ‘feminine’ side in the vein of tracks like “Epitaph” and “In the court of the crimson king” featuring bombastic Mellotron and Moogs along folky parts with acoustic instruments. Another influence is from Yes: powerful and propulsive bass guitar and guitars and keyboards with echoes from Howe and Wakeman. And some climates even contain jazzrock-like music, so there’s a lot of varied styles on this album. Although at some moments my attention slips away, this album has many strong songs, especially the compelling mellotron-drenched titletrack, goose bumps!!

 

 

PREMIATA FORNERIA MARCONI - P.F.M. Live in U.S.A. (aka Cook)

- This CD is a registration of a concert from 1974 while touring in the USA, to me it’s a perfect compilation of their best work and showcases the band at its pinnacle. PFM starts with “Four Holes In The Ground”: a propulsive rhythm and a catchy melody, delivering fat Minimoog synthesizer runs, some fiery electric guitar and impressive Hammond organ and majestic Mellotron waves in the mellow interludes. The English vocals sound warm and the interplay between the skillfull musicians is great. Next is “Dove ... Quando” with a classical/jazzy intro on the Fender Rhodes electric piano, turning into a duet from sparkling piano and beautiful Italian vocals. “Just Look Away” has a splendid acoustic guitar intro (featuring elements like tremolo – and sensational rhythm guitar), followed by twanging acoustic guitar, soft Minimoog flights and warm English vocals. The build-up is great with Hammond and flute and a closing section with again tremolo guitar. The ‘crowd-pleaser’ “Celebration” is a cheerful and catchy composition, delivering spectacular Minimoog runs and swirling interplay. The ‘grand finale’ includes the moving final part of “The World Became The World”, enjoy the Mellotron floods! Then “Mr. Nine Till Five”, a track with PFM at their best with the distinctive interplay between flute, Moog and violin. The final song “Alta Loma Five Till Nine” includes a long and bluesy guitar solo with a strong build-up, supported by violin- Mellotron, featuring howling and biting licks, superb! The second part has a moving violin soli, culminating in a version of Rossini’s piece “William Tell Overture” with virtuosic play on the Moog synthesizer and violin, what a way to say goodbey. This is my favorite PFM CD!

 

      QUELLA VECCHIA LOCANDA - Quella Vecchia Locanda

- The debut-album belongs to the top of the acclaimed Italian progrock from the Seventies, it contains eight beautiful and original compositions. They are a bit short but it's such a splendid blend of folk, classical and symphonic. The music is build around the magnificent (inter)play from the sparkling piano, compelling violin and cheerful flute but some guitarplay (acoustic and electric) adds a pleasant dimension to the very warm atmosphere on this album. Simply wonderful!!

 

   ROVESCIO DELLA MEDAGLIA (RDM), IL - Contaminazione

- The third album from RDM is their best, it features lots of Keith Emerson inspired Hammond organ play. Along with the propulsive an dynamic rhythm-section, it evokes also TRACE and EKSEPTION (featuring Dutch pride Rick van der Linden). The instrumentation is very varied including violin, harpsichord, heavy guitar, a violin-section, piano, classical guitar and church organ. At some moments the music sounds a bit freaky or experimental but in general this is wonderful melodic Seventies based progrock. The Italian vocals are beautiful and have a warm sound. By the way, this album is a kind of tribute to Mr. JS BACH, especially the composition “Toccata in D-Fuga”.

 

                                RUSTICHELLI & BORDINI - Opera Prima

- Rustichelli & Bordini was a duo who made this wonderful album that turned out to be their swan song. The cover picture is very original: a nude and bald heavy weight man who tenderly holds a baby in his arms. To me this is a metaphor for the music, ranging from warm and tender with soaring violin-Mellotron and classical inspired piano to powerful and swinging with lots of Hammond. The interplay between the keyboards (Hammond, Mellotron, classical orchestrations, piano and synthesizers) is wonderful and the rhythm-section sounds great along emotional vocals in some parts.

 

                                                       SALIS-DOPO

- The name of this Italian progrock band is derived from the two Salis brothers, Francesco and Antonio. The music on their fourth album from 1979 sounds like dynamic symphonic jazzrock and reminds me of the splendid Spanish band Mezquita, it’s also based upon captivating interplay between fiery and powerful guitar and vintage keyboards, including a Steinway Grand piano, Fender Rhodes electric piano, organ, Minimoog, ARP string-ensemble. The level of the musicians is very high, we can enjoy strong soli on guitar and keyboards an dmany captivating moments: exciting shifting moods and virtuosic piano play in the titletrack, excellent guitarwork in the vein of Jan Akkerman (Focus) in “Peccato Che .. !”, a Spanish climate featuring strong vocals, howling electric guitar and orchestral keyboards in “El diablo” and swirling Fender Rhodes piano and fiery electric guitar in “Inquinamento”.

 

                                        SEMIRAMIS - Dedicato a Frazz

- Semiramis made only one album, what a pity because this Italian band sounded so strong and promising. The album contains pleasant and melodic compositions featuring a lot of strings and fiery electric guitarplay. The parts with twanging acoustic guitars and mellow keyboards has obvious echoes from early Genesis. Highlights are some spectacular breaks delivering organ and propulsive guitar riffs, a flashy synthesizer solo and swelling keyboards, followed by a church-organ-guitar. This emphasizes how original Semiramis sounded, this album is one of the most acclaimed Italian progrock gems from the Seventies, discover why!

 

               SENSITIVA IMMAGINE - E Tutto Comincio Cosi

- Almost every inch of this CD (transferred from 1976 tapes) has the spirit of the early GENESIS, only the Italian vocals let you realise that this album is not a kind of ‘lost “Selling England By The Pound” tapes’! Even a live picture on the inside of this digipack (I own the Japanese Melos label version) looks like the early GENESIS. The six compositions (the Musea re-release has three bonus tracks) sound pleasant and melodic featuring warm vocals, great sensitive electric guitar work and lush keyboards. They don’t have the elaborate compositional skills of the other famous GENESIS-inspired band NEUSCHWANSTEIN but I’m sure SENSITIVA IMMAGINE will not be a disappointment if you want to enjoy the 70-77 GENESIS-era.

 

                                      TRIADE - La Storia di Sabazio

- This is an obscure Italian trio that made only one album. Their music is keyboard driven progrock with strongs hints from the classical music and ELP (organ and synthesizers). The combination of the bombastic keyboards and the acoustic guitar sounds very pelasant. The pieces featuring strings and rhythm-guitar are really breathtaking. The running time is just over half an hour but here you can say: quality above quantity!

 

   I hope you like it, now you know why there should be a separate Italian prog section Thumbs Up 



Edited by erik neuteboom - September 10 2006 at 14:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 14:18
Originally posted by andrea andrea wrote:

Ivan, I'm not going to keep on contradict you in this thread... You're a sesitive reviewer and you know South America prog scene... So, please, try to write a "blog" about it... Let us know what are the most important bands... What bands supported Sendero Luminoso or Tupamaros (if there were at all)? What was the influence of Latin America folklore in SA prog scene? How reacted the political establishment to progrock? How strong was the censorship in the different countries and how did it work? What are the subject of the lyrics? What are the common points to all this bands?... I think that this could be helpful for the site...
 
Andrea, I'm not the one trying to prove that there's a need for Argentinean, South American or Latin American Progressive.
 
If you haven't heard Traffic Sound or Laghonia you can't know how advanced was Psychedelic scene in Perú. Laghonia sounded like Jethro Tull actually before Jethro Tull, you can ask Raffaella, she heard some samples I showed her.
 
If you haven't heard Pablo el Enterrador, Bubu, Sui Generis or El Reloj you can't know how incredible was the early Symphonic Movement in Argentina
 
You can ask Guigo how eclectic was the Prog scenario in Brazil.
 
Los Jaivas had to leave Chile because they would have been dissapeared by Pinochet.
 
Petrus Castrus and a lot of Prog bands in Portugal were banned by the Government because they were not politically correct.
 
 
But IMHO this doesn't say anything against the unique sound of Latin American Prog in each of those countries.
 
Here in the modest Perú in the mid 70's we had to go to theaters to watch videos of Prog bands because nobody vuisited us being that our country was not profitable and the Military Government tried to ban Rock as a bad influence, but still we had a Prog movement, hundreeds first and thousands later gathered to watch Frágil play Watcher of the Skies with Andrés Duluide dressed as Peter Gabriel and later they released despite all this problems one opf the best Symphonic albums I ever heard called Avenida Larco.
 
To deny every country expresses their own identity in their music is to ignore reality, some bands express political rebelion others pain and sadness produced by millions starvin, Argentina is a country with a rich poetic scene and that was reflected in their music, Brazil is a blend of races and cultures and that is also expressed in their music.
 
Iván
 
BTW: Sendero Luminoso or Shinning Path is a movement from the 80's that reached their peak around 1985 and MRTA was founded in 1984, so there's no relation with the Prog of the 70's.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 10 2006 at 14:29
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 14:27
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:



hmmm... last post from me on this subject before phase two of this debate.... as a matter of fact will ask GR to close the thread... the debate here...is pointless....
 
Micky, is it pointless because 74% of the people disagree with this proposition?

Ivan.... what are are doing is the cyber equivalent of jumping up and down and crying it's not fair...
 
Micky, you're expressing your opinions, I'm expressing mine, I don't believe ANY nation should have a special sub-genre, that's my point

the question... on it's own merits.. does RPI merit being it's own sub-genre.. your posts ..when they actually deal with the subject at hand... support our claim.. 
 
Yes and so does England, USA, France, Netherlands, Sweden, Latin America, but this is a site based in GENRES not in regions.
 
what you insist upon is dragging every other nation that had prog groups.. and some that might have even had a central movement into this thread.  That is immaterial to the question at hand. 
 
No Micky, it's not inmaterial, if you claim Italy deserves it I'm trying to prove that many countries deserve it but the organization of this site doesn't allow it.
 
 Does Italy merit .... yes or no....
 
In our context NOT (IMHO) because we gather bands by similar sounds and influences not by nations, if we did that with Italy, we would have to do it with every country in the world
 
 I will show it does  having assembled over 40 websites with info to back me already. That will take time to go through obviously....   as far as the others.. that is for others to show... and not of concern at all for this question.
 
Why not concern Micky, it's clear that most people doesn't agree with Italian Progressive but you want it, I respect that but I can't agree with you despite how much I would like and believe me I would love to agree with you.
 
The best prove of respect for a person is to diisagree with him/her and use your best arguments, I believe it would be disrespectful for you to ignore the thread.
 
You never stopped arguing with me about ELO and that's what I respected more of you, it would have been easier for you to say what the hell, Ivan and me are in the team so lets avoid the issue.
 
You never did it and that has a lot of merit for me.
 
Iván





Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 10 2006 at 15:43
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 14:34
First of all:

Ivan for President!! , seriously hardly anyone can compete with your arguments

if I had to choose between yes and no for this question, I would have said 'no'.
on the other hand, I have no big knowledge of the genre, its influences and its importance to prog

I suggest, a team of people who are familiar with Italian prog, sit around together and make a decision, depending on the genre's IMPORTANCE and UNIQUENESS (if there is one)

if the genre actually has some strong separate characteristics from the others, then it should be regarded as separate

and why has It. Symph. Prog been included at the first place? this is food for thought...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 14:49
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by andrea andrea wrote:

Ivan, I'm not going to keep on contradict you in this thread... You're a sesitive reviewer and you know South America prog scene... So, please, try to write a "blog" about it... Let us know what are the most important bands... What bands supported Sendero Luminoso or Tupamaros (if there were at all)? What was the influence of Latin America folklore in SA prog scene? How reacted the political establishment to progrock? How strong was the censorship in the different countries and how did it work? What are the subject of the lyrics? What are the common points to all this bands?... I think that this could be helpful for the site...
 
Andrea, I'm not the one trying to prove that there's a need for Argentinean, South American or Latin American Progressive.
 
If you haven't heard Traffic Sound or Laghonia you can't know how advanced was Psychedelic scene in Perú. Laghonia sounded like Jethro Tull actually before Jethro Tull, you can ask Raffaella, heheard some samples I showed her.
 
If you haven't heard Pablo el Enterrador, Bubu, Sui Generis or El Reloj you can't know how incredible was the early Symphonic Movement in Argentina
 
You can ask Guigo how eclectic was the Prog scenario in Brazil.
 
Los Jaivas had to leave Chile because they would have been dissapeared by Pinochet.
 
Petrus Castrus and a lot of Prog bands in Portugal were banned by the Government because they were not politically correct.
 
 
But IMHO this doesn't say anything against the unique sound of Latin American Prog in each of those countries.
 
Here in the modest Perú in the mid 70's we had to go to theaters to watch videos of Prog bands because nobody vuisited us being that our country was not profitable and the Military Government tried to ban Rock as a bad influence, but still we had a Prog movement, hundreeds first and thousands later gathered to watch Frágil play Watcher of the Skies with Andrés Duluide dressed as Peter Gabriel and later they released despite all this problems one opf the best Symphonic albums I ever heard called Avenida Larco.
 
To deny every country expresses their own identity in their music is to ignore reality, some bands express political rebelion others pain and sadness produced by millions starvin, Argentina is a country with a rich poetic scene and that was reflected in their music, Brazil is a blend of races and cultures and that is also expressed in their music.
 
Iván
 
BTW: Sendero Luminoso or Shinning Path is a movement from the 80's that reached their peak around 1985 and MRTA was founded in 1984, so there's no relation with the Prog of the 70's.
 
Well, I admit my ignorance on SA prog... I'm not proposing a new subgenre, but a blog would help me to learn something about it... Music can express the feelings of a generation, of a people, of a country... Probably a blog would help also the discussion about "Italian Prog"... Without it seems almost pointless...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2006 at 15:34
Originally posted by andrea andrea wrote:

 
Well, I admit my ignorance on SA prog... I'm not proposing a new subgenre, but a blog would help me to learn something about it... Music can express the feelings of a generation, of a people, of a country... Probably a blog would help also the discussion about "Italian Prog"... Without it seems almost pointless...
 
Thank you Andrea, that's my whole point.
 
" Music can express the feelings of a generation, of a people, of a country" and as a fact does, every country is unique, each band added something of their own ethnic reality, suffering, politics, folk, etc.
 
So if we add one, we would have to add all, and honestly I'm not trying to do that, Latin American Prog should not exist either in a site based in musical genres despite how unique it may be.
 
That's all and I love Italian Prog but I have strong convictions.
 
Iván 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 10 2006 at 15:55
            
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