Blind Guardian

^ I guess you can call Watchtower "Proto-Prog-Thrash" ... they recorded some pretty advanced stuff in a time when bands like Metallica and Slayer (I know ... and a bunch of other bands) defined the genre of Thrash Metal. They were pretty much ahead of their time ... much later many other bands influenced by Thrash began to mix that style with progressive elements, arriving at a sound which somewhat resembles what Watchtower did right from the start ... Spiral Architect are a good example.

Orion-GER wrote: Well, surely BG have some progressive elements in their sound, no problem at all with it. But only because they have, they don't play Progressive Metal. For example: If a band has Death Metal, Blues or Country elements in its sound, is it a Death Metal, Blues or Country band than? Is METALLICA Progressive Metal because of "The Thing That Should Not Be"? Is WATCHTOWER Thrash Metal because of "Energetic Disassembly"? Is IRON MAIDEN Progressive Metal because of "Rime Of The Ancient Mariner"? ... @MikeEnRegalia Well, MANOWAR are about -666 Prog IMHO

Metallica have done much more in a progressive sense than "The Thing That Should Not Be" (for instance, the entire "...And Justice for All" album). As to Iron Maiden, I advise you check their latest album "Dance of Death", with the title-track and "Paschendale" being prime examples of prog-metal. And, from what I've heard around the Web, their next album will definitely be even more progressive. But I know I'm fighting a losing battle here...

Not to be taken as critisim towards the addition or the Prog Metal team, these are my thoughts after reading this topic and the Prog Metal chart:

Since there are so many metal bands being added to the Prog Metal genre that doesn't always fit perfectly with that description, I think it would be a good idea to split up Prog Metal into several styles, like Prog Rock is split into Symphonic, Art Rock, Prog Folk, Neo Prog etc.  I think it would reduce the controversy surrounding some additions, and make it easier for people to accept the existance of Prog Metal. For example, Opeth, Dream Theater and Between the Buried and Me are all very different bands, and with such a diversity of styles labeled as one, there's no wonder that people start to turn against Prog Metal. Labeling multiple sub genres as one and thereby increasing the diversity within the sub genre so much so that sub sub genres are needed makes Prog Metal look very weak, and it's value as a valid sub genre very questionable.

Prog Metal surely started as a sub genre to Prog Rock, but as far as I'm concerned it has evolved so much since that it has grown into a genre of its own, with a host of sub genres such as Progressive Power Metal, Symphonic Prog Metal, Progressive Death Metal etc. I see prog metal as a parallel genre to Prog Rock rather than a sub genre, which is what this site lists it as. I think it might be time to separate the two, to sort of kick Prog Metal out of the nest, and acknowledge it as a valid genre.

It's nice to see someone agree with me!  I was afraid that I'd get a lot of bash for posting that.  Looks like I don't need to worry too much though. 

Philéas wrote: Not to be taken as critisim towards the addition or the Prog Metal team, these are my thoughts after reading this topic and the Prog Metal chart: Since there are so many metal bands being added to the Prog Metal genre that doesn't always fit perfectly with that description, I think it would be a good idea to split up Prog Metal into several styles, like Prog Rock is split into Symphonic, Art Rock, Prog Folk, Neo Prog etc.  I think it would reduce the controversy surrounding some additions, and make it easier for people to accept the existance of Prog Metal. For example, Opeth, Dream Theater and Between the Buried and Me are all very different bands, and with such a diversity of styles labeled as one, there's no wonder that people start to turn against Prog Metal. Labeling multiple sub genres as one and thereby increasing the diversity within the sub genre so much so that sub sub genres are needed makes Prog Metal look very weak, and it's value as a valid sub genre very questionable. Prog Metal surely started as a sub genre to Prog Rock, but as far as I'm concerned it has evolved so much since that it has grown into a genre of its own, with a host of sub genres such as Progressive Power Metal, Symphonic Prog Metal, Progressive Death Metal etc. I see prog metal as a parallel genre to Prog Rock rather than a sub genre, which is what this site lists it as. I think it might be time to separate the two, to sort of kick Prog Metal out of the nest, and acknowledge it as a valid genre.

Philéas wrote: AtLossForWords wrote:  Can I reccomend you the ratingfreak.com website?  Under the "ProgArchives" section you will see the Prog Metal Potential Additions chart and just a click away is the genre categorization of Prog Metal. It was after looking at it that I got these thoughts. So does anyone else agree?

It's a shame, really, that the owners don't seem to be interested. But maybe it's because the site after all is decribed as "Prog Rock Ultimate Discography". Perhaps a sister site is needed, to make a Prog Metal Ultimate Discography...

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Blind Guardian recorded at least one progressive album (depending on whom you ask it's either Nightfall or NatO), and that's why they will be included. Not because of single songs, or because of any particular element they use in their music. If you don't agree about that ... I don't mind at all!

that's the problem in PA IMO
if a band has one prog album and the rest is not prog, it's included
controversial...
    

AtLossForWords wrote:   I agree with the categorization, but I think two genres would give enough clues to a listener.  Progressive Metal and Extreme Progressive would be sufficient classicication for now on the site.

Why not do further splits while you're at it? With only those two genres people would still get these associations:

• You like Riverside -> maybe you'd like Tool
• You like Anathema -> maybe you'd like Ron Jarzombek
• You like Pain of Salvation -> maybe you'd like Rhapsody
• You like Cult of Luna -> maybe you'd like Dream Theater

ivansfr0st wrote: And if you like Kate Bush, you will like Emperor tbh.  -- Ivan

Sure, this is also a big problem ... caused by the database design. Proto-Prog and Prog-Related should be attributes of albums, not genres. So Kate Bush would be in Art Rock AND her albums would be marked "prog-related", and Emperor would be in Extreme Prog Metal and their albums would be marked "prog-related".

A bit like it is done on my website.