Blind Guardian
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25657
Printed Date: March 03 2025 at 12:36
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Blind Guardian
Posted By: mrdfield
Subject: Blind Guardian
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:17
| Will Blind Guardian be added to the archives?? |
Replies:
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:54
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^ yes, they have been cleared for addition. Have a look at the prog metal additions chart (link in my sig). ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 19:32
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I have contemplated working on a Blind Guardian addition for some time now, but since it is a contreversial addition I am waiting and currently adding more acceptable bands. -------------  
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Supertwister
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 00:48
 I like Blind Guardian a lot, but why should they be on here!?------------- http://www.last.fm/user/palepoli/?chartstyle=minimalDark - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/minimalDark/artists/palepoli.gif - |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 03:00
^ because of Nightfall in Middle-Earth and A Night at the Opera. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 12:11
...which are complex and bombastic Power Metal records, nothing more .
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 12:25
^ and nothing less. See my rating of the albums on my website ... I rated their progressiveness below 5 (on an 1-10 scale). Nevertheless they deserve to be here ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 12:28
| Surely not, bro, surely not... |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 12:31
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Their new stuff coming out soon is very prog metal in my opnion. ------------- |
Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 14:15
If you think so .
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 14:21
So where are those albums (the albums, not the whole band) on a prog scale from 1 to 10 for you? Remember that there are bands like Manowar, so don't tell me that Nightfall is 1/10. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Orion-GER wrote:Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 14:23
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BUT MIKEY MANOWAR HAVE PIANO SOLOS ------------- sig |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 14:24
Oh comeon Mike, if Triump Of Steel isn't prog then what is. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 16:38
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------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 16:49
A Night at the Opera is a very proggy album. ...And Then There was Silence is a great epic, surrouded by great matierial with structure, variation, and creativity. Blind Guardian isn't the most progressive band, but they certainly are not devoid of progressive traits. -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 17:12
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Well, surely BG have some progressive elements in their sound, no problem at all with it. But only because they have, they don't play Progressive Metal. For example: If a band has Death Metal, Blues or Country elements in its sound, is it a Death Metal, Blues or Country band than? Is METALLICA Progressive Metal because of "The Thing That Should Not Be"? Is WATCHTOWER Thrash Metal because of "Energetic Disassembly"? Is IRON MAIDEN Progressive Metal because of "Rime Of The Ancient Mariner"? ... @ member_profile.asp?PF=1923&FID=1 - MikeEnRegalia Well, MANOWAR are about -666 Prog IMHO |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 17:15
Blind Guardian recorded at least one progressive album (depending on whom you ask it's either Nightfall or NatO), and that's why they will be included. Not because of single songs, or because of any particular element they use in their music. If you don't agree about that ... I don't mind at all!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 17:25
Well... What about HELSTAR's "Nosferatu" than?  |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 17:29
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 03:24
You call WATCHTOWER Thrash Metal ?Anyway, come on, I'm just trying to provoke you, get angry ... |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 04:07
Of course they're thrash, albeit of an extremely technical and progressive variety. "Prog-metal" didn't really exist during their lifespan. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 04:11
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^ I guess you can call Watchtower "Proto-Prog-Thrash" ... they recorded some pretty advanced stuff in a time when bands like Metallica and Slayer (I know ... and a bunch of other bands) defined the genre of Thrash Metal. They were pretty much ahead of their time ... much later many other bands influenced by Thrash began to mix that style with progressive elements, arriving at a sound which somewhat resembles what Watchtower did right from the start ... Spiral Architect are a good example.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 04:13
It takes more than disagreeing with me to make me angry. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 04:18
Metallica have done much more in a progressive sense than "The Thing That Should Not Be" (for instance, the entire "...And Justice for All" album). As to Iron Maiden, I advise you check their latest album "Dance of Death", with the title-track and "Paschendale" being prime examples of prog-metal. And, from what I've heard around the Web, their next album will definitely be even more progressive. But I know I'm fighting a losing battle here...  |
Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 05:38
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@Ghost Rider Well, I actually own more albums than "Powerslave" and "Master Of Puppets". @Bryan/MikeEnRegalia Of course WATCHTOWER are Progressive Metal! Together with QUEENSRYCHE and FATES WARNING they "invented" this subgenre. I mean, is VENOM "Proto-Black Metal/Punk/NWOBHM"? |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 18:10
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Not to be taken as critisim towards the addition or the Prog Metal
team, these are my thoughts after reading this topic and the Prog
Metal chart: Since there are so many metal bands being added to the Prog Metal genre that doesn't always fit perfectly with that description, I think it would be a good idea to split up Prog Metal into several styles, like Prog Rock is split into Symphonic, Art Rock, Prog Folk, Neo Prog etc. I think it would reduce the controversy surrounding some additions, and make it easier for people to accept the existance of Prog Metal. For example, Opeth, Dream Theater and Between the Buried and Me are all very different bands, and with such a diversity of styles labeled as one, there's no wonder that people start to turn against Prog Metal. Labeling multiple sub genres as one and thereby increasing the diversity within the sub genre so much so that sub sub genres are needed makes Prog Metal look very weak, and it's value as a valid sub genre very questionable. Prog Metal surely started as a sub genre to Prog Rock, but as far as I'm concerned it has evolved so much since that it has grown into a genre of its own, with a host of sub genres such as Progressive Power Metal, Symphonic Prog Metal, Progressive Death Metal etc. I see prog metal as a parallel genre to Prog Rock rather than a sub genre, which is what this site lists it as. I think it might be time to separate the two, to sort of kick Prog Metal out of the nest, and acknowledge it as a valid genre. |
Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 18:13
Good point...
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 18:36
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It's nice to see someone agree with me! I was afraid that I'd get a lot of bash for posting that. Looks like I don't need to worry too much though.
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 19:37
Mike has been wanting to do this for ages, the site owners don't seem to be going for it though. |
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 20:23
Can I reccomend you the ratingfreak.com website? Under the "ProgArchives" section you will see the Prog Metal Potential Additions chart and just a click away is the genre categorization of Prog Metal. -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 22:51
It was after looking at it that I got these thoughts. So does anyone else agree? |
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 07 2006 at 00:19
I agree with the categorization, but I think two genres would give enough clues to a listener. Progressive Metal and Extreme Progressive would be sufficient classicication for now on the site. -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 07 2006 at 02:49
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Philéas: Have a look at this page: http://www.ratingfreak.com/home/progarchives/prog_metal_subgenres.xhtml - http://www.ratingfreak.com/home/progarchives/prog_metal_subgenres.xhtml about half a year ago we split the prog metal genre ... unfortunately the PA site owners don't seem to be interested in implementing it. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: July 07 2006 at 06:29
| It's a shame, really, that the owners don't seem to be interested. But maybe it's because the site after all is decribed as "Prog Rock Ultimate Discography". Perhaps a sister site is needed, to make a Prog Metal Ultimate Discography... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 07 2006 at 07:09
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^ maybe it's a little bit unfair to say that they're not interested ... they haven't said so. But it surely isn't one of their highest priorities ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 07 2006 at 20:35
that's the problem in PA IMO if a band has one prog album and the rest is not prog, it's included controversial... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 06:48
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^ if a band recorded one progressive album they MUST be included ... the archives intend to be a complete archive of prog, and the common "unit" of prog is albums. There is virtually no prog band/artist which remained totally consistent, most of them changed their style from album to album. That's why discussing the progressiveness of an artist is so difficult. I'm not saying that moving the discussion from the band level to the album level would solve all problems ... but it would make much more sense. Most importantly: People who don't really know the particular album but only other albums of the band would be forced to listen to the album in order to participate. There simply isn't any way to understand the addition of Blind Guardian without having listened in detail to Nightfall and NatO. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 06:54
Why not do further splits while you're at it? With only those two genres people would still get these associations:
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 07:01
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And if you like Kate Bush, you will like Emperor tbh. -- Ivan------------- sig |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 07:09
Sure, this is also a big problem ... caused by the database design. Proto-Prog and Prog-Related should be attributes of albums, not genres. So Kate Bush would be in Art Rock AND her albums would be marked "prog-related", and Emperor would be in Extreme Prog Metal and their albums would be marked "prog-related". A bit like it is done on my website. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 09:48
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Quote: There simply isn't any way to understand the addition of Blind Guardian without having listened in detail to Nightfall and NatO. Dude, that's what I did, but still I can't understand their addition here. If it's so easy to be added to the PA, than nearly every band would fit in, that's a fact! BTW: ANATO is added? Okay, why not Powerslave? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 09:59
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^ I also don't know why people think that ANATO is their most progressive album ... Nightfall is twice as prog.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 12:55
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Yes, totally, if not three times! Can't wait 'til WHILE HEAVEN WEPT get added, because they covered JANE.
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 17:28
I just think that's all we can really hope for right now. I'd like more genres too, but it just doesn't seem like it can be done right now. I just think by making two categories for extreme progressive metal an progressive metal, we will relieve the biggest misleading factor that
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2006 at 17:33
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^ fair enough. But from a technical standpoint it doesn't make much difference how many new categories you introduce ... you have to go through the list of PM bands and move them. BTW: I'm volunteering to do that ... all M@x would have to do is create the new categories. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 09 2006 at 17:33
When you move a band, do the reviews move as well? I would hate for my Into Eterniy, Opeth, Death, and Vintersorg reveiws to be lost forever.  -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 09 2006 at 17:36
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Why should the reviews be affected? It's like moving a band from Symphonic Prog to Art Rock.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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