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Topic ClosedDream Theater vs Tool

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Poll Question: Best Band ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 13:02

Dream Theater with no doubt, but Tool is great too

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 16:32
Tool, have more depth to their songs in my opinion. Vote to them, although Dream Theater are great also.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 23:16
DT!
 
BUT TOOL IS COOL!!...
Arriving somewhere but not here
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 23:51
Originally posted by UnknownFlow UnknownFlow wrote:

Tool, have more depth to their songs in my opinion. Vote to them, although Dream Theater are great also.
 
I beg to differ, has Tool done anything that matches the depth of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, A Mind Besides Itself, or A Change of Seasons.  Dream Theater is the much much more versitile band.  Dream Theater plays with more speed, but also plays very controlled songs like Disappear and Misunderstood.  Tool doens't have the ability to put togethor something like Space Dye Vest either.  All in all, Tool can't match Dream Theater when it comes to depth. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 15:33
Originally posted by AtLossForWords AtLossForWords wrote:

Originally posted by UnknownFlow UnknownFlow wrote:

Tool, have more depth to their songs in my opinion. Vote to them, although Dream Theater are great also.
 
I beg to differ, has Tool done anything that matches the depth of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, A Mind Besides Itself, or A Change of Seasons.  Dream Theater is the much much more versitile band.  Dream Theater plays with more speed, but also plays very controlled songs like Disappear and Misunderstood.  Tool doens't have the ability to put togethor something like Space Dye Vest either.  All in all, Tool can't match Dream Theater when it comes to depth. 



Sorry to break the enthusiasm from a fellow Dream Theater fan, but Tool can and do match Dream Theater in depth - even perhaps surpass them, considering Lateralus (the album). Although, DT are conspicuously supple, in their creations, in which Tool may not detain such quality at DT's level (but let us not disregard the number of albums each band has made throughout their career); and, yes, DT overlap Tool in technique (aside, maybe, from Maynard, as I've already said so) - which isn't related to speed as any other person might withdraw, in confusion, from the post -, but Tool are one of the most creative band ever witnessed performing brilliantly adroit music in artfully genius structures and conceptual originality, of which even Dream Theater aren't capable of emulating, unabridgedly, with the epics not so frequently portrayed from Tool. Also, mentioning tracks like Space Dye Vest and Disappear, you are intruding Tool's marked territory of excellence's habitat, whitin pusillanimously ghastly tracks of of somber shades, tinged in tints of "darkness".


Edited by Aspiring hope - June 03 2006 at 15:52

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 18:44
i choose Tool,  dislike dream theater
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 23:47
Originally posted by Aspiring hope Aspiring hope wrote:

Originally posted by Serguilloche Serguilloche wrote:

Dream Theater without a doubt, there is no contest.

Greater songs, more entertaining musicians.

Tool are just really annoying, I feel like punching that poseur who sings for them.




To consider your value for entertainment, in remonstrance for quality, within progressive bands' appreciation, I think the so-called "poseur" - whose identidy, uniquely imbedded with the group's coexistence, probably gets you off since he fails to appeal to what casts appreciation in his divergence from the average spectacle (rumours tend to imply his name is Maynard James Keenan), - wouldn't be the only one to reciprocate your thought, as even DT or any other valuable musician would come to advert/punchback about how he/she's quality isn't measured through the category of "circus artistry", hyperbolicly speaking. Perhaps I'm cathing an erroneous conception of your phrases' intention and I apologize if so, but that exuded barren views of musical importance, since, beyond your egregious subjectivity to define Tool, their originally crafted countenance, of consistently unwavering "artistic" integrity, defies premature auditions for the precociously critic ear, as to see what lies beneath more than meets the eye takes auditive sensibility and patiently placid sagacity, not just an overwhelmed feel contracted upon hearing instruments reach their highest grounds of impressive skill, which, although might prove useful in a guitar-virtuoso band, isn't sufficient towards prog or any less conspicuous flairs, in rock itself.
 
Jesus, man.  Thats what I'd call thesaurus-syndrome.  In your attempt to sound intelligent you made yourself sound like an idiot.  I hope your English teacher doesn't give you good grades for that crap.  There's a reason famous authors don't write like that.
 
Anyway I voted for Tool.  I think they have far more depth and could care less what anyone else thinks.


Edited by int_2375 - June 03 2006 at 23:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2006 at 05:08
Originally posted by AtLossForWords AtLossForWords wrote:

I beg to differ, has Tool done anything that matches the depth of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, A Mind Besides Itself, or A Change of Seasons.  Dream Theater is the much much more versitile band.  Dream Theater plays with more speed, but also plays very controlled songs like Disappear and Misunderstood.  Tool doens't have the ability to put togethor something like Space Dye Vest either.  All in all, Tool can't match Dream Theater when it comes to depth.
maybe, but tool's songs come off with a lot less 'cheese', maybe that is what he is trying to say

two entirely different bands imo, and i see no reason to compare them actually

edit: ew what the hell is up with quoting




Edited by hamham - June 04 2006 at 05:10
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2006 at 09:22
Originally posted by Aspiring hope Aspiring hope wrote:

Originally posted by Serguilloche Serguilloche wrote:

Dream Theater without a doubt, there is no contest.

Greater songs, more entertaining musicians.

Tool are just really annoying, I feel like punching that poseur who sings for them.




To consider your value for entertainment, in remonstrance for quality, within progressive bands' appreciation, I think the so-called "poseur" - whose identidy, uniquely imbedded with the group's coexistence, probably gets you off since he fails to appeal to what casts appreciation in his divergence from the average spectacle (rumours tend to imply his name is Maynard James Keenan), - wouldn't be the only one to reciprocate your thought, as even DT or any other valuable musician would come to advert/punchback about how he/she's quality isn't measured through the category of "circus artistry", hyperbolicly speaking. Perhaps I'm cathing an erroneous conception of your phrases' intention and I apologize if so, but that exuded barren views of musical importance, since, beyond your egregious subjectivity to define Tool, their originally crafted countenance, of consistently unwavering "artistic" integrity, defies premature auditions for the precociously critic ear, as to see what lies beneath more than meets the eye takes auditive sensibility and patiently placid sagacity, not just an overwhelmed feel contracted upon hearing instruments reach their highest grounds of impressive skill, which, although might prove useful in a guitar-virtuoso band, isn't sufficient towards prog or any less conspicuous flairs, in rock itself.


If you want people to think you're clever you should learn how to spell.

I stopped reading after 'identidy' - if you can't be bothered to learn how to spell (or type) properly, I can't be bothered to read the drivel you think makes you look tough.





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2006 at 09:40
I have too be honest, never was much of a Tool fan.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2006 at 13:38
Originally posted by Aspiring hope Aspiring hope wrote:

Originally posted by AtLossForWords AtLossForWords wrote:

Originally posted by UnknownFlow UnknownFlow wrote:

Tool, have more depth to their songs in my opinion. Vote to them, although Dream Theater are great also.
 
I beg to differ, has Tool done anything that matches the depth of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, A Mind Besides Itself, or A Change of Seasons.  Dream Theater is the much much more versitile band.  Dream Theater plays with more speed, but also plays very controlled songs like Disappear and Misunderstood.  Tool doens't have the ability to put togethor something like Space Dye Vest either.  All in all, Tool can't match Dream Theater when it comes to depth. 



Sorry to break the enthusiasm from a fellow Dream Theater fan, but Tool can and do match Dream Theater in depth - even perhaps surpass them, considering Lateralus (the album). Although, DT are conspicuously supple, in their creations, in which Tool may not detain such quality at DT's level (but let us not disregard the number of albums each band has made throughout their career); and, yes, DT overlap Tool in technique (aside, maybe, from Maynard, as I've already said so) - which isn't related to speed as any other person might withdraw, in confusion, from the post -, but Tool are one of the most creative band ever witnessed performing brilliantly adroit music in artfully genius structures and conceptual originality, of which even Dream Theater aren't capable of emulating, unabridgedly, with the epics not so frequently portrayed from Tool. Also, mentioning tracks like Space Dye Vest and Disappear, you are intruding Tool's marked territory of excellence's habitat, whitin pusillanimously ghastly tracks of of somber shades, tinged in tints of "darkness".
 
Well, allow me to retort.
 
While analyzing the creative abilities of the two subjects, it seems apparent that Dream Theater surpasses Tool in musical technique.  Therefore, Dream Theater has the ability to manipulate music in ways Tool cannot.  Tool is quite unique when compared to others, but compared to themselves Tool fails excel.  Tool's two most acclaimed albums, Aenima and Lateralus show not an increase in creativity, but a decrease.  First off, the two albums reflect each other.  Tool's use of original techniques, are consistently emulated throughout both albums.  The opposition (Dream Theater) consistently creates new and different matierial.  Dream Theater do not emulate previous techniques with such consistency as Tool does.  How can a band be considered to have more depth when they consistenly emulate their catalogue and the opposition does not.
 
In other words, what I'm saying is Tool is a creative band, but they never get any better or create anything different.  Aenima and Lateralus borrow a lot of the same musical techniques and hold the same consistent atmosphere.  Even 10,000 Days sounds more like previous albums.
 
Dream Theater on the other hand have consistenly produced albums different from previous works.  Dream Theater always breaks new ground.


Edited by AtLossForWords - June 04 2006 at 13:40

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2006 at 13:52
obviously the Theater
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 04 2006 at 21:05
Originally posted by AtLossForWords AtLossForWords wrote:

Originally posted by Aspiring hope Aspiring hope wrote:

Originally posted by AtLossForWords AtLossForWords wrote:

Originally posted by UnknownFlow UnknownFlow wrote:

Tool, have more depth to their songs in my opinion. Vote to them, although Dream Theater are great also.
 
I beg to differ, has Tool done anything that matches the depth of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, A Mind Besides Itself, or A Change of Seasons.  Dream Theater is the much much more versitile band.  Dream Theater plays with more speed, but also plays very controlled songs like Disappear and Misunderstood.  Tool doens't have the ability to put togethor something like Space Dye Vest either.  All in all, Tool can't match Dream Theater when it comes to depth. 



Sorry to break the enthusiasm from a fellow Dream Theater fan, but Tool can and do match Dream Theater in depth - even perhaps surpass them, considering Lateralus (the album). Although, DT are conspicuously supple, in their creations, in which Tool may not detain such quality at DT's level (but let us not disregard the number of albums each band has made throughout their career); and, yes, DT overlap Tool in technique (aside, maybe, from Maynard, as I've already said so) - which isn't related to speed as any other person might withdraw, in confusion, from the post -, but Tool are one of the most creative band ever witnessed performing brilliantly adroit music in artfully genius structures and conceptual originality, of which even Dream Theater aren't capable of emulating, unabridgedly, with the epics not so frequently portrayed from Tool. Also, mentioning tracks like Space Dye Vest and Disappear, you are intruding Tool's marked territory of excellence's habitat, whitin pusillanimously ghastly tracks of of somber shades, tinged in tints of "darkness".
 
Well, allow me to retort.
 
While analyzing the creative abilities of the two subjects, it seems apparent that Dream Theater surpasses Tool in musical technique.  Therefore, Dream Theater has the ability to manipulate music in ways Tool cannot.  Tool is quite unique when compared to others, but compared to themselves Tool fails excel.  Tool's two most acclaimed albums, Aenima and Lateralus show not an increase in creativity, but a decrease.  First off, the two albums reflect each other.  Tool's use of original techniques, are consistently emulated throughout both albums.  The opposition (Dream Theater) consistently creates new and different matierial.  Dream Theater do not emulate previous techniques with such consistency as Tool does.  How can a band be considered to have more depth when they consistenly emulate their catalogue and the opposition does not.
 
In other words, what I'm saying is Tool is a creative band, but they never get any better or create anything different.  Aenima and Lateralus borrow a lot of the same musical techniques and hold the same consistent atmosphere.  Even 10,000 Days sounds more like previous albums.
 
Dream Theater on the other hand have consistenly produced albums different from previous works.  Dream Theater always breaks new ground.
 
I don't think you have anything to back that up.  You're going to need to cite some specific examples. 
 
How has James Labrie done anything to innovate over the albums?  He uses the same melodramatic wail in every song.  Maynard mainly used a throaty growl on Undertow, now look what he's done on songs like The Grudge, Vicarious, The Pot, Rosetta Stoned, and especially Ticks and Leeches.
 
How about Portnoy?  What's he done to significantly change their sound?  Danny Carey used electronic drums, bells, the Mandala pad, and SE cymbals on the new album alone.  On Lateralus he began to use more complex polyrhythms, tabla, congo, and the wave drum.  Name something really unique that Portnoy has done on a DT song.  Carey's performance on Ticks and Leeches or Disposition/Reflectoini/Triad speak for themselves.
 
Give a listen to Justin Chancellor's fretless bass playing on Intension.  Now does that sound anything like his heavily distorted stuff on H?  Listen to Adam Jones on Wings for Marie/10,000 Days.  It sounds nothing like anything hes ever played before.
 
On to the songs as a whole.  Do you honestly think The Pot, or Wings for Marie sound like anything Tool's ever done?  They don't.  Each album is significantly different than the last.  Seriously, Tool wasn't playing slow, synth-drenched soundscapes before D/R/T, they filled out significantly on AEnima, and they are just completely different on 10,000 Days.  Do you honestly think Dream Theater has all that much new to put to music releasing an album every year?  Its always the same endlessly fast playing and soloing.  You say its always different, but you didn't give any examples.  As if I'm just supposed to take your word for it.  So what ground are they breaking?  Give me some specific examples.
 
Tell me exactly how Tool keeps emulating themselves, because I don't hear it.  While your at it, tell me what new techniques Dream Theater is using, because I don't hear that either.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2006 at 03:38
I'm sticking with DT on this one.
Mainly because of the fact that Tool hasn't grabbed my attention a single time, and I've tried to listen to them on numerous occassions. On the other hand, DT intrigued me from day one.

Finally an easy poll!

Focus on the music... Focus!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2006 at 13:32
Originally posted by int_2375 int_2375 wrote:

Originally posted by AtLossForWords AtLossForWords wrote:

Originally posted by Aspiring hope Aspiring hope wrote:

Originally posted by AtLossForWords AtLossForWords wrote:

Originally posted by UnknownFlow UnknownFlow wrote:

Tool, have more depth to their songs in my opinion. Vote to them, although Dream Theater are great also.
 
I beg to differ, has Tool done anything that matches the depth of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, A Mind Besides Itself, or A Change of Seasons.  Dream Theater is the much much more versitile band.  Dream Theater plays with more speed, but also plays very controlled songs like Disappear and Misunderstood.  Tool doens't have the ability to put togethor something like Space Dye Vest either.  All in all, Tool can't match Dream Theater when it comes to depth. 



Sorry to break the enthusiasm from a fellow Dream Theater fan, but Tool can and do match Dream Theater in depth - even perhaps surpass them, considering Lateralus (the album). Although, DT are conspicuously supple, in their creations, in which Tool may not detain such quality at DT's level (but let us not disregard the number of albums each band has made throughout their career); and, yes, DT overlap Tool in technique (aside, maybe, from Maynard, as I've already said so) - which isn't related to speed as any other person might withdraw, in confusion, from the post -, but Tool are one of the most creative band ever witnessed performing brilliantly adroit music in artfully genius structures and conceptual originality, of which even Dream Theater aren't capable of emulating, unabridgedly, with the epics not so frequently portrayed from Tool. Also, mentioning tracks like Space Dye Vest and Disappear, you are intruding Tool's marked territory of excellence's habitat, whitin pusillanimously ghastly tracks of of somber shades, tinged in tints of "darkness".
 
Well, allow me to retort.
 
While analyzing the creative abilities of the two subjects, it seems apparent that Dream Theater surpasses Tool in musical technique.  Therefore, Dream Theater has the ability to manipulate music in ways Tool cannot.  Tool is quite unique when compared to others, but compared to themselves Tool fails excel.  Tool's two most acclaimed albums, Aenima and Lateralus show not an increase in creativity, but a decrease.  First off, the two albums reflect each other.  Tool's use of original techniques, are consistently emulated throughout both albums.  The opposition (Dream Theater) consistently creates new and different matierial.  Dream Theater do not emulate previous techniques with such consistency as Tool does.  How can a band be considered to have more depth when they consistenly emulate their catalogue and the opposition does not.
 
In other words, what I'm saying is Tool is a creative band, but they never get any better or create anything different.  Aenima and Lateralus borrow a lot of the same musical techniques and hold the same consistent atmosphere.  Even 10,000 Days sounds more like previous albums.
 
Dream Theater on the other hand have consistenly produced albums different from previous works.  Dream Theater always breaks new ground.
 
I don't think you have anything to back that up.  You're going to need to cite some specific examples. 
 
How has James Labrie done anything to innovate over the albums?  He uses the same melodramatic wail in every song.  Maynard mainly used a throaty growl on Undertow, now look what he's done on songs like The Grudge, Vicarious, The Pot, Rosetta Stoned, and especially Ticks and Leeches.
 
How about Portnoy?  What's he done to significantly change their sound?  Danny Carey used electronic drums, bells, the Mandala pad, and SE cymbals on the new album alone.  On Lateralus he began to use more complex polyrhythms, tabla, congo, and the wave drum.  Name something really unique that Portnoy has done on a DT song.  Carey's performance on Ticks and Leeches or Disposition/Reflectoini/Triad speak for themselves.
 
Give a listen to Justin Chancellor's fretless bass playing on Intension.  Now does that sound anything like his heavily distorted stuff on H?  Listen to Adam Jones on Wings for Marie/10,000 Days.  It sounds nothing like anything hes ever played before.
 
On to the songs as a whole.  Do you honestly think The Pot, or Wings for Marie sound like anything Tool's ever done?  They don't.  Each album is significantly different than the last.  Seriously, Tool wasn't playing slow, synth-drenched soundscapes before D/R/T, they filled out significantly on AEnima, and they are just completely different on 10,000 Days.  Do you honestly think Dream Theater has all that much new to put to music releasing an album every year?  Its always the same endlessly fast playing and soloing.  You say its always different, but you didn't give any examples.  As if I'm just supposed to take your word for it.  So what ground are they breaking?  Give me some specific examples.
 
Tell me exactly how Tool keeps emulating themselves, because I don't hear it.  While your at it, tell me what new techniques Dream Theater is using, because I don't hear that either.
 
What has James LaBrie done, I think it's more amusing to speak about what Dream Theater has done vocally throughout their eight studio albums.  Charlie Dominci had a Billy Joel type tone to his vocals on the When Dream and Day Unite debut, they then found James LaBrie before Images and Words which added a much more operatic element vocally.  Images and Words has higher pitched vocals and richer harmonies than most DT albums.  Awake is very James LaBrie used more of a metal voice to suit a darker heavier album.  On Falling Into Infinity James LaBrie was forced to change his style from his food-poisoning.  Falling Into Infinity is a lower pitched vocal album with more vocal effects, and a guest apperance by Dug Pinnick of King's X.  Scenes From a Memory goes back to James previous style on Awake, higher pitched vocals with a strong metal tone.  Mike Portnoy and John Petrucci also started doing more singing on this album.  On Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence the vocals are much softer and melancholic, Mike Portnoy also does many more solo vocal spots.  I really liked the contrast between LaBrie and Portnoy on this album.  That's all I'll get into for now.
 
Portnoy has consistently changed the tone of his set throughout Dream Theater discography.  He ditched that triggered snare from and went to a deeper sound on Awake.  He lightened up a little bit on Falling Into Infinity using more cymabal work than before.  On Scenes From a Memory his style became much more groove oriented especially in a song like Home.  There's also much more of a jazzy touch in the ballads.  Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence featured a much more tom oriented approach.
 
I don't think you could say Tool has nearly as much diversity as Dream Theater does.  Does Tool change the dynamics from their heavier tunes to their ballads as much as Dream Theater does?  Tool seems to relentlessly hit a listener with a similar tonality all throughout an album.  I'm not saying is is bad, I'm just saying this doesn't show the variation that Dream Theater does.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2006 at 14:33
DT always
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2006 at 14:57
It's like to choose between the plague and the cholera!
    

Edited by oliverstoned - June 05 2006 at 14:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2006 at 15:06
I choose Pestilence, BTW:
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2006 at 15:12
I voted for the best band Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2006 at 03:51

To avoid the massive amount of quotes that might become bothersome, I'd just like to point out Tool don't have that scant variation, previously implied, as the sound may seem similar throughout one album, or even in comparison with other works, but that's mainly an "outward" layer of what your ears perceive, since the changes occur, shifting in subtle movements of tones, contextualized in their own ambience, though presenting not so conspicuously depicted nuances. Thus, unlike Dream Theater, where every album is clearly distinguishable from the rest, the motions in Tool's progress are more profound - hence why, I, for one, claimed Tool to have as equal or superior depth as DT, since I feel there's an intricately meticulous mechanism, coaxing the sound to be “decoded” in a deeper analysis, in order to perceive the changes. The diversity itself alone isn’t what defines depth, I believe, but, even so, Tool aren’t as monotonous as one might prematurely conclude, nor can there ever be a decrease from Aenima to Lateralus and, consequently, to 10,000 Days (where the musicians demonstrate their great instrumental capacity along with its elaborate composition, in psychedelic moods never displayed before), as int_2375 concretely referred to, yielding some considerably substantial examples.
However, DT aren’t solely poised on simplistic structures, saved by mind-blowing soloing, as one can also determine individual spirit and rich variety of sound, amongst one album, though, crafted to pursue the album’s identity and mood. As AtLossForWords rightfully indicated, the drumming (and the drums themselves) wasn’t that much stagnated to a specific technique: it’s fairly easy to discern Images and Words through its drum rhythm and tone; Scenes From A Memory detains faster and more diversified beats, accounting to the songs’ singular status (even though the style converges to a consistent sound, since it’s a concept album). The panoply of songs shouldn’t be defined as the “same endlessly fast playing and soloing”, as well, taking into mind tracks such as Hell’s Kitchen, Wait For Sleep, Space Dye Vest, Misunderstood, Trial Of Tears, etc, that combine the melodic façade with instrumental precision and vocally transmitted sentiment of a not-so-banal construction. There are, nonetheless, powerful instrumental sections that extend the average solo length and transcend the soloing component, leaving all instruments to get a taste of the “pedestal”, as is seen and discussed on Scenes From New York – there was too much happening at the same time that one instrument alone wasn’t enough to be caught on camera.
Anyhow, this is just the impression that I draw from two grand bands and, whether or not one overlaps the other is highly propitious to subjectivity, since both have distinctly different ambitions and directions from one another. As to my use of words, I apologize for the apparently troublesome speech, though I find it easier to enhance the purpose into clarity, through a larger number of words, when it comes to express myself in an alien language, especially transmitting abstract intentions and feelings to a tangible comprehension, although, I do recognize I have little flux, coming contradictory to the thought, but I’ll try to evolve, in such terms, or cause less discontent. It saddens me, though, that there are still those who mistake intelligence for garrulously written speeches (often depicted in poorly written scripts for unoriginal movies, where scientists wear a bow-tie and profess the term “atomic” 10 times per sentence), as it is or should be demonstrated by one’s mentally logical pattern, but, then again, maybe that’s just a criteria exclusive for IQ tests.  


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