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Topic ClosedWhat is so wrong with Prog metal

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Barla View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 22:27
It's predictable that in a Progressive Rock web site like ProgArchives, most of the people like the 70's bands, because they're classics and the ones that started all of this ...
But I like almost all prog, and I don't have any problem with Prog Metal (DT and Symphony X are AWESOME). I think people that have problems with heavy guitar specially, and high-speed solos, don't like Prog Metal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 22:37
Originally posted by AtLossForWords AtLossForWords wrote:

Originally posted by Xenoxen Xenoxen wrote:

I love metal. But my veiw is there's no such thing as prog metal. Metal is Metal, Prog Is Prog.
 
Hold on a second here.  Progressive is a prefix to a genre, it isn't a genre itself. That's why we talk about Prog Rock, Prog Metal, Pychodelic Prog Rock, and etc.  There's quite a difference between a metal band like Dream Theater or Pain of Salvation and In Flames or Deicide.  What is it, that Dream Theater and Pain of Salvation are taking different elements into their music to class it as progressive metal.  Metal is not metal, there are different types of metal just as there are different types of rock.
 
Agreed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 22:52
The problem for me with Prog Metal is that no matter how prog it is, it's still metal; and while I sometimes like a metal edge (like Porcupine Tree), or perhaps more than just an edge, full-fledged metal is too loud for me. I think that may be the case for many people here, although there are lots of prog-metal fans.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 23:09
a big thumbs down to prog metal from Micky....


for the simple fact... I don't like the sound of it.... in general it is overproduced with crappy keyboards (show me a Hammond organ anyday, I love the old vintage keyboards.. that is a large part of the prog sound).. .the guitars are completely overdone with effects... and so on. Plus I get the sense that all the emphasis on the technical nature of the music... and somehow writing a great song got lost along the way.   I'm a big fan of the old analog sound.. digital isn't always better.   I don't waste time here  slammiing it, we all like what we like, ....   In short that's why I couldn't get into it... and I like metal.. but when in the mood.. I pull out some old Ozzy or Judas Priest.  If I want to bang my head silly.. I'll take the classic metal stuff.  
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 23:10
    I don't bash it, but as of yet, I still don't find it appealing. There is some metal I do like, but most of it is the "classic" type (Black Sabbath). I just don't like the new style of metal. It's the constant gutteral thrumming in the lower registers that really puts me off. It also seems as if the vocalists are just trying to sound metal, rather than truly being emotive. On the advice of a friend, I tried Tool again. I still can't make it through an entire song.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2006 at 23:20
Although I love prog- metal, especially the stuff from the 80s through mid 90s I find the genre stale nowadays, it seems most bands are copying Dream Theater/Symphony X or playing something that, while it blows everything youve heard in your life away technically, lacks even remotly decent songs. (Devin Townsend and Riverside exceptions to this.) Its sort of sad that there is no band Ive heard out whos first album came out in the last 5 years (again excepting Riverside) that can combine technicality with genuinly good songs like Fates Warning, Dream Theater and Shadow Gallery did in their prime. I would much rather listen to something with an actual song instead of some Julliard Jazz Major showing off his technical abilites. I think thats the reason most peope dislike prog-metal nowadays. Anyway at least the main body of metal, is getting much more intelligent nowadays with bands such as Asmegin, Arcturus and Sunn 0)))
If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 03:13

I think people are forgetting that music is entirely based upon taste, a very important point especially in a genre as diverse as prog. In fact, progressive music is not a style of music rather an approach to music even if there are particular sounds we define as "prog." Prog metal is simply another evolution of prog, for better or worse, that stands as a testament to the power of progressive music. There is certainly something for everyone. Prog metal may be your cup of tea, and maybe it isn't. But don't attack the merit of a type of music simply because you don't like it. As purists we all fall into the trap of degrading another style of music that does not fit our particular tastes. After all, we all listen to prog because we like a little diversity from the standard pop radio mass produced sound. Does that mean that music on the radio is bad? Absolutely not. If it were such "bad" music it would not have such a large audience. I personally don't care for pop music, but that is my personal taste. Prog metal can come off as to aggressive and technically oriented to some "prog-snobs" and that's okay. Some people like the sound, others don't. And attacking Dream Theater for being too technical? One could pose the same argument for the Mahavishnu Orchestra. Like the sound or hate it, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that we respect each others musical tastes even if it does not conform with our idea of "prog" or "good music". All of these groups are here because enough people consider them progressive but more importantly people like them. We could give 100 different definitions of prog, all correct, but each an individual definition within the broad scope. All I am saying is respect the music and the opinions of others. That said, you don't have to like it.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 03:32
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

a big thumbs down to prog metal from Micky....


for the simple fact... I don't like the sound of it.... in general it is overproduced with crappy keyboards (show me a Hammond organ anyday, I love the old vintage keyboards.. that is a large part of the prog sound).. .the guitars are completely overdone with effects... and so on. Plus I get the sense that all the emphasis on the technical nature of the music... and somehow writing a great song got lost along the way.   I'm a big fan of the old analog sound.. digital isn't always better.   I don't waste time here  slammiing it, we all like what we like, ....   In short that's why I couldn't get into it... and I like metal.. but when in the mood.. I pull out some old Ozzy or Judas Priest.  If I want to bang my head silly.. I'll take the classic metal stuff.  


Symph Prog specialists should stick together, therefore I endorse everything you said WinkThumbs Up. I'm not a big Prog-Metal expert, but what I've heard so far hasn't impressed me too much - with some notable exceptions. For instance, I'd like to explore Tool's output, which intrigued me much more than anything I've heard by DT so far. I also love Queensryche, which I got to know right after the release of their "Queen of the Reich" EP. That said, like my partner in crime Micky, I'd rather listen to classic metal, or even bands like Metallica or Megadeth (I was listening to "Rust in Peace" yesterday, and it smokes!) - and I can't wait to see Maiden again in December. It's not the heaviness of the sound that puts me off, rather the pointless noodling and (often) poor songwriting.


Edited by Ghost Rider - June 03 2006 at 03:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 03:50
I personally don't think much of prog metal, with the odd exception perhaps. I like it hard and fast at times, but there is an overdose of that in prog metal, and I quickly get bored of it. Another reason, and perhaps the most important one, is that despite all its hardness and fastness the music sounds way too "clean" for me; it is not really "dirty" (at least not what I have heard of prog metal). It may have to do with modern production methods (especially the sound of the bass), but that's why I personally stick to "Sea Shanties" by High Tide or the likes if I want it hard and fast.

Edited by BaldFriede - June 03 2006 at 03:50


BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 05:22
I got into prog metal in the 90`s because I was tired waiting for bands like Yes and Kansas to get their prog "attitude" back together again  . I found out about a band called Fates Warning and also Images and Words by Dream Theater had just been released . I knew that in the 90`s prog metal was the direction my tastes wanted to go . Unfortunately in the early 90`s great new prog bands like Echolyn were very hard to find in record stores in my country , there was no internet nothing to refer to only friends who shared similar tastes and my local CD store Radical Records  (who seem to be very pro active with prog metal items) So for me prog metal kept the progressive dream alive during a time when the world was not as connected as it is today.
These days I explore modern prog and I also discovered 70`s prog  that I missed and its all thanks to the internet. 

Prog Metal  is progressive rock in evolution   Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 06:17
Originally posted by blue powder 777 blue powder 777 wrote:

After all, we all listen to prog because we like a little diversity from the standard pop radio mass produced sound.
Which is why I have to wonder why so much of what passes for Prog Metal is so very much like "regular" music. It seems counter-productive.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 06:34
Originally posted by Teaflax Teaflax wrote:

Originally posted by blue powder 777 blue powder 777 wrote:

After all, we all listen to prog because we like a little diversity from the standard pop radio mass produced sound.
Which is why I have to wonder why so much of what passes for Prog Metal is so very much like "regular" music. It seems counter-productive.
 
It just depends on the particular band. I don't call bands like Nightwish or Kamelot progressive but rather straight metal bands with the occasional "progressive" moment. I agree that the term "progressive metal" has been misused to a large extent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 06:36
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

a big thumbs down to prog metal from Micky....


for the simple fact... I don't like the sound of it.... in general it is overproduced with crappy keyboards (show me a Hammond organ anyday, I love the old vintage keyboards.. that is a large part of the prog sound).. .the guitars are completely overdone with effects... and so on. Plus I get the sense that all the emphasis on the technical nature of the music... and somehow writing a great song got lost along the way.   I'm a big fan of the old analog sound.. digital isn't always better.   I don't waste time here  slammiing it, we all like what we like, ....   In short that's why I couldn't get into it... and I like metal.. but when in the mood.. I pull out some old Ozzy or Judas Priest.  If I want to bang my head silly.. I'll take the classic metal stuff.  


Symph Prog specialists should stick together, therefore I endorse everything you said WinkThumbs Up. I'm not a big Prog-Metal expert, but what I've heard so far hasn't impressed me too much - with some notable exceptions. For instance, I'd like to explore Tool's output, which intrigued me much more than anything I've heard by DT so far. I also love Queensryche, which I got to know right after the release of their "Queen of the Reich" EP. That said, like my partner in crime Micky, I'd rather listen to classic metal, or even bands like Metallica or Megadeth (I was listening to "Rust in Peace" yesterday, and it smokes!) - and I can't wait to see Maiden again in December. It's not the heaviness of the sound that puts me off, rather the pointless noodling and (often) poor songwriting.


If only people would listen to Heaven's Cry ... every thread that I start about them quickly dies away. Look them up on my homepage if you're interested, there are two complete songs available on the homepage of their label (DVS).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 06:41
Originally posted by Teaflax Teaflax wrote:

Originally posted by blue powder 777 blue powder 777 wrote:

After all, we all listen to prog because we like a little diversity from the standard pop radio mass produced sound.
Which is why I have to wonder why so much of what passes for Prog Metal is so very much like "regular" music. It seems counter-productive.

Do you really think bands like Pain of salvation and Opeth are very much like regular music? I don't.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 06:47
I don't think anything is wrong with progressive metal actually... but than again, I also don't think there's anything wrong with art rock, symphonic prog, prog electronic, space rock, post-rock... etc Wink
Interested in my reviews?
You can find them HERE

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 06:49
Originally posted by Teaflax Teaflax wrote:

Originally posted by blue powder 777 blue powder 777 wrote:

After all, we all listen to prog because we like a little diversity from the standard pop radio mass produced sound.
Which is why I have to wonder why so much of what passes for Prog Metal is so very much like "regular" music. It seems counter-productive.


No offense, but that's a perfect example of prog snobbism. It also happened to me before: If a person listens mostly to prog, including or maybe even focusing on really complex prog (Jazz-Fusion, RIO, Avant-Prog etc) then that person sometimes forgets how simple non-prog, commercial music can be. And then that person might confuse "light" prog with non-prog.

I suggest to you to listen To Nightwish - Once and then to Evanescence - Fallen. Then tell me that Nightwish - Once is not progressive compared to that album. And then consider that there is even much more simple metal than Evanescence ...

What I'm trying to say here is that exclusively listening to prog can make you blind to what real non-prog sounds like ... and that makes it really difficult to judge bands/albums which are not that complex but still prog, or a little bit progressive but still non-prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 06:53
Originally posted by blue powder 777 blue powder 777 wrote:

It just depends on the particular band. I don't call bands like Nightwish or Kamelot progressive but rather straight metal bands with the occasional "progressive" moment. I agree that the term "progressive metal" has been misused to a large extent.
But even  Dream Theater do this to a large extent. Octavarium is the only album I've spent some time on, probably because the opening track is great, with some nice Alice in Chains-like minor-key melodies and heavy riffing (although they really could do with detuning their guitars to really get that heavy chug, if you ask me - it sounds a little empty to me).

But then; The Answer Lies Within - that's just so bad even for what it tries to be: a Diane Warren Power ballad. The bridge and chorus of These Walls could go well with any Hard Rock band in the world - too bad, because the rest is good. I Walk Beside You sounds like an overworked U2 song - all the boredom with twice the ideas. The chorus is criminally bad except for a bit of chordal play underneath the melody.

The rest of the album actually manages to mostly stay out of those traps, so I usually start at Panic Attack and listen from there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 07:04
Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

Originally posted by imoeng imoeng wrote:

Originally posted by Xenoxen Xenoxen wrote:

I love metal. But my veiw is there's no such thing as prog metal. Metal is Metal, Prog Is Prog.
 
so what about progressive rock? what about pop rock? its just 2 elements become 1... ohh and look the subgenres on the main page,, u can find lots of "no such thing ness"


Just ignore him, he's one of those close minded snobs stuck in a time period. Let 'em rot there.
 
First of all I am not stuck in anytime period nor am I a snob and closed minded. I happen to listen to a lot of metal such as Tool, Opeth, etc. I own over 2000 prog albums/Cds dating from 1965 to 2006. If anything I am very knowledgeable about Prog and Metal music just isn't prog, There is no fusion of genres in metal it's just one called metal. IMO prog is a fusion of genres to create an original sound. That is also why there are no sub genres either. Humans make things complicated.
 
"I am the voice of reason against a howling mob"


Edited by Xenoxen - June 03 2006 at 07:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 07:06
Originally posted by Teaflax Teaflax wrote:

Octavarium is the only Dream Theater album I've spent some time on


And you want to discuss Prog Metal?Confused


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - June 03 2006 at 07:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2006 at 07:23
The problem with Genres such as 'Prog Metal' is that they are to restictive. Sure they give an indication of the sort of music, but only an indication.  Every genre has bands that 'don`t fit the genre' anyway.

Forget the Genre listen to the music.

I like music from all genres, not because the bands are in a genre but because the music interests me. In addition not all bands cds are of the same standard or interest!

Forget the bands name, listen to the music.

I would rather discuss good music by any band than worry about genres. They are only indicators of what people 'might' expect.

Allomerus. Music with progressive intent.

http://allomerus.bandcamp.com
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