Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Suggest New Bands and Artists
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - BLACK SABBATH
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedBLACK SABBATH
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 18:53
Originally posted by Tristan Mulders Tristan Mulders wrote:

Still not thinking about a topic or something else to let people know what bands are rejected, before they decide to post about that band??? Embarrassed

Would save us a lot of time Approve

Not sure it would...wouldn't every trjection just start far morre "outreaged" threads?
Back to Top
WaywardSon View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2006 at 09:38
I think in the future Black Sabbath will have to be at least considered Prog Related.
Apart from being the pioneers of heavy metal they have put the metal into Prog Metal .
Some stuff on Never say Die is quite progressive like the song Airdance.
Back to Top
PROGMAN View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 03 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 2664 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 06:46
They'll probably get terminated in the next collaborator poolLOL
CYMRU AM BYTH
Back to Top
Trickster F. View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 12:37
I agree with putting Sabbath to Prog-Related actually. SBS, Sabotage, Technical Ecstacy and Never Say Die are quite proggy albums in their discography, and so can be called Master Of Reality too.
 
I'm not the one making a decision though, and I wasn't there during their Prog-Metal addition.
 
 -- Ivan
sig
Back to Top
AtLossForWords View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 13:06
My personal opinion on Black Sabbath being progressive: ABSOLUTELY NOT!  I'm not going to dispute Sabbath was innovative and important to developing musical genres we know today. This however does not make a band progressive.  Should we add Miles Davis because his type of jazz was smoother and slower that lead to a new division of jazz? 
 
About Proto-Prog Metal
I don't think such a thing really exists, but with few exceptions.  There are metal bands that have influences on progressive metal bands that's for sure, but I don't think many were the reason for the development of progressive metal.  Metallica, Megadeth, and Iron Maiden would be possible exceptions to this.  Those three bands were actually making music with a progressive element.  Look at Metallica's epic instrumental tracks, look at Megadeth's virtuosity (from all members), and look at Maiden's variant career.  Black Sabbath career didn't have epic instrumental tracks, didn't have virtuoso musicians, and didn't have a very variant career.  Not everything Sabbath did was the same, but nothing really broke away from the original formula.
 
We need Mike's genre by album classification to sort out a mess like proto-prog metal.  We could say an album like The World Needs a Hero or Youthanasia by Megadeth is proto-prog metal, but we definatley can't say that about Killing Is My Buisness. 

"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 13:35
^ if such a thing as proto-prog-metal exists, Black Sabbath don't qualify for it. At the very most they are proto-metal ... prog metal came to be in the 80s, and a typical proto-prog-metal album could be Master of Puppets ... 
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
Trickster F. View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 14:07
I don't know, Superztar and Symptom Of The Universe from the Sabotage album seem like a definition of Progressive Metal atmospheres and fundamentels a decade before it was actually born!
 
 -- Ivan
sig
Back to Top
AtLossForWords View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:09
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ if such a thing as proto-prog-metal exists, Black Sabbath don't qualify for it. At the very most they are proto-metal ... prog metal came to be in the 80s, and a typical proto-prog-metal album could be Master of Puppets ... 
 
We agree.  Rather than Master of Puppets, I see ...And Justice For All as the definition of Proto-Prog Metal.  There's a lot of contrast in guitar tones, keys, composing.  If only there was a bassist. LOL

"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:15
Jody agrees with you ... but I still think that Master of Puppets is a better candidate for the title of "THE proto-prog-metal album". The most convincing reason: It came first!Big smile
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
Trickster F. View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:18
I wouldn't say vitruosity is some kind of a Progressive Music only trait. If that was the case, we would all be members of Shred Archives.
 
I consider Sabbath to be a more progressive group than either Metallica, Megadeth or Maiden, and by that I do not mean their innovation - rather the sound itself.
 
 -- Ivan
sig
Back to Top
Minkia View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 30 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 174 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:27
Hey Abstrakt, are you sure that's Frank Zappa (next to Hendrix) and not Frank Marino?    
RELIGION IS HATE, RELIGION IS FEAR, RELIGION IS WAR,RELIGION IS RAPE, RELIGION'S OBSCENE,RELIGION'S A WHORE
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:31
Let's assume for a second that Black Sabbath were proto-prog-metal on these albums. Then, almost 10 years later, prog metal came to be. What happened in between? There must have been bands that built upon the style of those albums ... are they also prog metal, or proto-prog metal?
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
Trickster F. View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 16:51
Don't ask me, there's a huge gap between my perception of early 70's music and late 80's metal! There must have been groups who followed Sabbath's new direction at the time, although they perhaps had no popularity because of the new tendencies of music at the time. Actually, I have no idea and I don't see how it matters and, on top of that, I'm off to bed.
 
 -- Ivan
sig
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:00
LOL fair enough - maybe someone else knows what happened between Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and master of Puppets.Wink
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
Trickster F. View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:09
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

LOL fair enough - maybe someone else knows what happened between Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and master of Puppets.Wink
 
Sabotage happened between SBS and MoP. LOL
 
 -- Ivan
sig
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:12
I'm a total Black Sabbath noob ... but I listened to most key tracks. And I played War Pigs on the GuitarPort for like 100 times.LOL

BTW: Listening right now to War Pigs, covered by the Hayseed Dixies. Howdy!
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
AtLossForWords View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 17:56
Iron Maiden happened inbetween Sabbath and Master of Puppets.  When I look for a band that truly lead to the direct development on heavy metal it's Iron Maiden.  Black Sabbath was an influence for metal, but I never considered them to play metal.  Iron Maiden and Judas Priest took Sabbath's heavy hard rock combined it with aggressive parts and thus became heavy metal.

"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:08
^ So if you think that Sabbath are Proto Prog Metal, wouldn't that make Iron Maiden Prog Metal?
Release Polls

Listened to:
Back to Top
AtLossForWords View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 19:29
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ So if you think that Sabbath are Proto Prog Metal, wouldn't that make Iron Maiden Prog Metal?
 
I don't think Sabbath is proto prog metal.  I do think that Maiden is proto prog metal.  If we have classification by genre, I would say X Factor is a prog metal album.

"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 09:00
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ if such a thing as proto-prog-metal exists, Black Sabbath don't qualify for it. At the very most they are proto-metal ... prog metal came to be in the 80s, and a typical proto-prog-metal album could be Master of Puppets ... 


ClapThumbs Up

As much as I love BS and admit they had their proggy moments, I wouldn't put them in any "Proto-Prog-Metal" category. I absolutely agree about the mighty "Master of Puppets", and possibly also about its predecessor, "Ride the Lightning". And what about Priest's "Sad Wings of Destiny"?

Thumbs Up
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.168 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.