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Blacksword 
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 Posted: July 16 2004 at 08:46 |
 Certif1ed wrote:
How come Hawkwind never had that problem...?
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What are you talking about!!?? They fell apart when Dik Mik left....
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Certif1ed
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 08:47 |
Progarchives without Velvetclown would be like mushy peas without the mush...
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Certif1ed
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 09:00 |
Blacksword wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
How come Hawkwind never had that problem...?
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What are you talking about!!?? They fell apart when Dik Mik left....
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I (seriously) don't understand;
Dik Mik left in 1973 and Hawkwind released loads of great stuff after that date, including "Hall of the Mountain Grill", "Warrior On The Edge Of Time", "Levitation", "Sonic Attack", and the much-lauded "Chronicles of the Black Sword" (not one of my favourites, but a lot of people seem to like it).
And have you heard "SpaceBrock" (2001)? I think it's a superb album, which just says "Hawkwind" all over to me.
...Hawkwind were always falling apart, but obstinately kept rising like the phoenix from the ashes...
I think Hawkwind suffered more when Lemmy was booted out - the albums he made with the band are all legendary in their own ways.
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emdiar
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 09:20 |
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"Duke" is their first almost unlistenable album, for me. I voted, however, for Hackett's departure. (That is to say, as the point of decline, not as a recomended line up change of course.) This is the point that they fell off the shark. The shark in question was swimming at such an incredible speed that sheer conservation of momentum kept them skimming along for a couple of albums, 'though a gradual deceleration was evident, before finally and irrevocably sinking like a stone.
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Blacksword
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Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 09:25 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
How come Hawkwind never had that problem...?
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What are you talking about!!?? They fell apart when Dik Mik left....
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I (seriously) don't understand;
Dik Mik left in 1973 and Hawkwind released loads of great stuff after that date, including "Hall of the Mountain Grill", "Warrior On The Edge Of Time", "Levitation", "Sonic Attack", and the much-lauded "Chronicles of the Black Sword" (not one of my favourites, but a lot of people seem to like it).
And have you heard "SpaceBrock" (2001)? I think it's a superb album, which just says "Hawkwind" all over to me.
...Hawkwind were always falling apart, but obstinately kept rising like the phoenix from the ashes...
I think Hawkwind suffered more when Lemmy was booted out - the albums he made with the band are all legendary in their own ways.
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Sorry, I dont think I conveyed my sarcasm very effectivly
The Hawks did of course make their best stuff after he left. I once owned a copy of Dont Panic, the biography by Kris Tait. I couldn't believe how many line up changes they went through. Some of my fave HW albums are the three that Bob Calvert sang on in the mid seventies (Astounding sounds, Quark.. & PXR5) These are now deleted and beyond our reach  HW proved they could play well on these albums, and take production seriously.
But HW did never suffer from losing key members. They just carried on in what ever form they could, and they did, for while get better after Calvert left (Live '79, Levitation) I loved Chronicle of the Blacksword!! Even better was the 'Live Chronicles' album from that tour. I caught them on tour a year later at the Majestic in Reading (your turf, if I'm not mistaken Certif1ed?) It was the loudest noise I had ever heard in my life..
Hang on wasn't this thread about Genesis..??
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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emdiar
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Joined: June 05 2004
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 09:31 |
Hawkwind survive lineup mutations because it's not an ego fuelled band. Solos are usually more a part of a whole, rather than "listen to me shred it up for 5 minutes at a complete tangent to the rest of the song".
For me though, Hawkwinds greatest loss was the late Bob Calvert. "Cpt. Lockheed and the Starfighters" is my favourite Hawkwind album, and Lemmy is as good as ever. Plus, a brilliant vocal contribution fron Arthur Brown. Class!
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Certif1ed
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 15:25 |
Blacksword - I musta missed the sarcasm 
Still - Space Ritual and Doremi are both incredible albums...
I was at that Majestic gig - it was the last time I saw Hawkwind 'coz it was too much like heavy metal for me! I preferred the 1982 "Sonic Attack" tour gig at Reading's Hexagon. Although the Stonehenge sets were legendary...
er yeah. This thread's about Genesis. TBC in the Hawkwind thread
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Certif1ed
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 15:26 |
emdiar wrote:
"Duke" is their first almost unlistenable album, for me. I voted, however, for Hackett's departure. (That is to say, as the point of decline, not as a recomended line up change of course.) This is the point that they fell off the shark. The shark in question was swimming at such an incredible speed that sheer conservation of momentum kept them skimming along for a couple of albums, 'though a gradual deceleration was evident, before finally and irrevocably sinking like a stone. |
Heh!
Even though I don't totally agree, that's very eloquently put, emdiar!
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emdiar
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 17:33 |
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Ta Cert. Nice of you to say so.
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 16 2004 at 22:25 |
Richard wrote:
| but aren't Genesis fans allowed to like the later albums as well and still retain their status as 'Real Genesis Fans'? |
If you read my last post, you'll find I never said that and I quote myself:
There are faithful fans of the pop era also, but they are very few, because the esence of pop music is precisely to listen what is fashion and forget it soon.
As you see I know and accept there are faithful later Genesis era fans and that's great, they are honest and follow their band, but they are not the majority. I know at least 30 guys and girls who bought every Genesis release post Duke, but if you ask them today about the band, they simply answer "They are dead".
The last ones are the not real fans I was talking about, the millions of posers who buy an album just because it's a top 10 and then they leave to find a new band, those are not real fans.
| I enjoy listening to a variety of music |
I also do, I like to listen Meatloaf despite his cheesy lyrics, or Jackson Browne, Boomtown Rats and even Enola Gay (OMD). But that's not the point.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Cesar Inca
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Posted: July 22 2004 at 21:00 |
... When Hackett left in order to see his good material out in the market. What were his band mates thinking when they decided that Please Don't Touch didn't make a good Genesis number?... See what happens when you ignore a genious in your own band consistently for so long?...
While Genesis was releasing ATTWT, Duke and Abacab, Hackett released stuff like Please Don't Touch, Spectral Mornings, and Defector. Now Genesis is dead, and all that is left from them is Collins' ballads for Disney movies and Rutherofrd's Mechanics. But still, on the other side of the former 76-78 era quartet, Hackett has released Guitar Noir, Darktown, To Watch the Storms, and some prettu damn good acoustic stuff.
Regards.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 22 2004 at 22:59 |
| While Genesis was releasing ATTWT, Duke and Abacab, Hackett released stuff like Please Don't Touch, Spectral Mornings, and Defector. Now Genesis is dead, and all that is left from them is Collins' ballads for Disney movies and Rutherofrd's Mechanics |
Sadly I have to agree with you, the art left Genesis at the same time Steve went out.
But to be honest and due to the massive taste, those crappy Ballads left Collins and his session musicians (Banks and Rutherford) several millions to be happy.
Iván
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artbass
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Posted: July 23 2004 at 05:59 |
For me Genesis jumped the shark when Gabriel left, though Hackett tried to keep them up. I don't really like Trick Of The Trial (and never heared Wind & Wuthering), but it is much better than the stuff after Seconds Out.
When Hackett left, Genesis died a long death (though they were very succesfull with this ).
Edited by artbass
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she feels wind around her
she feels a warming sun
she feels some raindrops wet her leaves
since that time she lost her griefs
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Cesar Inca
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Posted: July 23 2004 at 09:11 |
To be fair, the trio were still capable of writing good stuff and make it sound better live (Say It's Alright Joe, Burning Rope, Deep in the Motherlode, Behind the Lines/Duchess, Duke's Travels, Heathaze - even the first Ritherfors solo album), but again, they were remainders of a musica lgreatness that they were no longer interested on exploring further.
Regards.
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dropForge
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Posted: July 26 2004 at 00:46 |
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Interesting. I come back after a few days, and it just so happens that I listened to ...And Then There Were Three a little earlier. More people have voted for this album in the poll than any other. Ten isn't many, but you're all still nuts! A brilliant album, one of my Genesis faves. Tony's synthwork is great! "Deep In The Motherlode" and "Down And Out" are two of Genesis' best songs.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 26 2004 at 01:16 |
| More people have voted for this album in the poll than any other. Ten isn't many, but you're all still nuts! |
Well as a fact there are 18 who believe the same because the 8 guys who voted for the moment when Peter left will also believe ATTWT is a terrible album, this meens 58.07 of the voters.
I go a bit further, I HATE IT
But you are right Drop Forge, we may all be nuts.
Iván
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richardh
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Posted: July 26 2004 at 02:41 |
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Genesis had to change musically.It was inevitable.Be grateful they recorded some great masterpeices like 'Suppers Ready'.ATTWT is a perfectly 'sevicable' album even if it isn't as 'progressive' as the others.Sometimes I like to listen to music that isn't so 'progressive' even if it is made by a progressive rock band.But if people want to hate it then that is their perogative I suppose.Seems a terrible waste of energy though!
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Possessed
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Joined: July 10 2004
Location: United States
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Posted: July 26 2004 at 03:31 |
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When they released Abacab. Duke had it's moments.
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James Lee
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Posted: July 26 2004 at 07:34 |
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On ATTWT through Abacab there's varying levels of disappointment based on how much better the earlier albums were, but after "Invisible Touch" there's just plain embarassment...
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Jim Garten
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Posted: July 26 2004 at 07:42 |
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I do feel they should have called it a day after Abacab, and made 3 Sides Live their final album.
TSL, admittedly does contain some of the dross from the previous 2 albums (turn it on again, and misunderstanding, for example), but overall, this would have been a fitting swansong from a once great band.
A couple of years later, Genesis played Knebworth Park...... with a horn section!
Not only jumping the shark, but vaulting the entire marine-world.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Genesis – Jumping the shark
