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micky 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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 Posted: February 05 2006 at 12:04 |
 micky wrote:
erik neuteboom wrote:
Hello Micky.
If I compare Italian to Spanish prog I would say about Italian that
on one hand the bands are more obvious influenced by ELP, Genesis and
VDGG but on the other hand the bands often sound very adventurous, more
complex and very alternating, sometimes less accessible.
The Spanish prog often contain folky elements from the several
regions (as Carakhallo mentiones) including the different languages
like Catalonian (Dr. No) and Basque (Itoiz). Especially the integration
of the exciting flamenco is wonderful (Triana, Cai, Azahar). In my
opinion the Spanish prog sound very original, often it's hard to
find obvious influences (most of the time King Crimson and Camel). |
thanks for the feedback.....looks like I've found my newest area of exploration.  Sounds like I'll really enjoy it.
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Erik (or anyone) - any theories as to why Spanish prog has never
attained the 'status' that Italian prog has, at least here
at PA's. Could it be the lack of apparent influences that might
have led fans of Genesis, G.G, VDGG and ELP to the next progression of
their music. It sounds like, based on your post, that is is a seperate
branch of prog and should be recognized as such (remember I'm sort of
new here and have missed any previous discussions/debates about it)
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Carakhallo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 12:35 |
Well, Spanish prog bands usually sound completely different to any other kind of prog ever made, because of the Spanish flamenco influences. If Italian prog (which is basically symphonic prog) is considered a branch of prog rock itself, then Spanish prog should also be, since it's more original, whithout any doubt.
The thing is prog came to Spain quite late (actually, everything that is fashionable in UK or US will finally arrive to Spain 3 or 5 years later...). So Spanish bands started to play prog about 1975. Before that year you could find basically psychodelic rock or proto-prog bands (some of them would finally end playing prog). So the golden era of Spanish prog lasted only 5 years, untill 1980. And as you know, prog was not fashionable anymore after 1977... It was a short life, and I think that's why it hasn't already got the status of Italian prog, for example. Too late... to short.
Anyway, I am so delighted that people is becoming more and more interested on this style. There are about 30 must-have Spanish prog CDs, so I think the adventure should be interesting enough for everyone!
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Carakhallo
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Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 12:42 |
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Actually, I think Spanish prog should be considered as a genuine style... Erik, do you know who should I contact to make this proposal?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 12:43 |
Carakhallo wrote:
Well, Spanish prog bands usually sound
completely different to any other kind of prog ever made,
because of the Spanish flamenco influences. If Italian prog (which is
basically symphonic prog) is considered a branch of prog rock itself,
then Spanish prog should also be, since it's
more original, whithout any doubt.
The thing is prog came to Spain quite late (actually, everything
that is fashionable in UK or US will finally arrive to
Spain 3 or 5 years later...). So Spanish bands started to play prog
about 1975. Before that year you could find basically psychodelic
rock or proto-prog bands (some of them would finally end playing prog).
So the golden era of Spanish prog lasted only 5 years, untill
1980. And as you know, prog was not fashionable anymore after
1977... It was a short life, and I think that's why it hasn't already
got the status of Italian prog, for example. Too late... to short.
Anyway, I am so delighted that people is becoming more and more
interested on this style. There are about 30 must-have Spanish prog
CDs, so I think the adventure should be interesting enough for everyone! |
I'm in the process of decided what to get, and where to get them
from.. This thread has been helpful. Thanks for the
thoughts on the question.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Carakhallo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 12:48 |
By the way (today I'm posting waaaay too much)  , does anybody know the record CAL (from the band with the same name)? I really like it, it's another Spanish band with kind of a flamenco touch, not as good as the classics (Triana, Alameda, Cai...) but they are OK. They even play "pasodoble", a typical Spanish style in a prog way. I must admit they are less proggy than the others I have mentioned, but still interesting to know.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 12:52 |
I am glad that this well visited thread (thanks to everyone who joined ) has made clear that Spanish progrock should, like Italian, be considered as (as Carakhallo said) a seprate branch of progrock. I will discuss and I hope that many fellow collaborators have visited this thread and will give their opinion too about
SPANISH PROGROCK SHOULD HAVE AN OWN BRANCH LIKE ITALIAN!!!!
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Pagasarri
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 02 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 34
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 13:02 |
Carakhallo wrote:
By the way (today I'm posting waaaay too much), does anybody know the record CAL (from the band with the same name)? I really like it, it's another Spanish band with kind of a flamenco touch, not as good as the classics (Triana, Alameda, Cai...) but they are OK. They even play "pasodoble", a typical Spanish style in a prog way. I must admit they are less proggy than the others I have mentioned, but still interesting to know. |
yesssss they're very good, i love that "progdoble" jajajja You're right, they aren't as good as the classics, but, definetly they are highly recommended Erik, you should try'em
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Lord of lords king of kings has returned to lead his children home to take them to the new Jerusalem
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Pagasarri
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 02 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 34
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 13:08 |
Carakhallo wrote:
Actually, I think Spanish prog should be considered as a genuine style... Erik, do you know who should I contact to make this proposal? |
I totally agre with you. Spanish prog is a world apart (like italian  , i love italian prog too, so...) thanks to the flamenco influences and that special feeling... you know.. it's hard to describe. I find some spanish albums that are unique in their own style, for example Ibio "Cuevas de Altamira" it's a perfect blend of cantabrian folk and the best symph prog ever written, as well as Crack... Spanish prog needs its own category. It's so cool imagining the substyle "spanish symphonic prog" 
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Lord of lords king of kings has returned to lead his children home to take them to the new Jerusalem
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Carakhallo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 13:20 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
SPANISH PROGROCK SHOULD HAVE AN OWN BRANCH LIKE ITALIAN!!!!
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Whoever is responsible for creating prog genres in Progarchives may consider this proposal.
I love Italian prog, but although it's clearly symphonic prog it's usually considered as a different style. Here, in progarchives, it's classified as "Italian prog". Maybe "Italian symphonic prog" would be more correct, since it's a unique way of playing symphonic prog, with a certain feeling. And every Spanish prog band is here classified as "Symphonic prog", when Spanish music shows something really unique: that flamenco influence you can't find anywhere.
I think someting should be done, this style deserves being a genre by itself. Wouldn't it be nice that Progarchives decided to change this, creating the "Spanish prog" genre?
Of course, not every Spanish band would deserve being inside that category, just basically bands from the south of Spain, showing flamenco influences (Cai, Alameda, Cal, Triana, Zaguán, Imán, Mezquita, Medina Azahara, etc.). Fusioon, Eduardo Bort, Iceberg or Canarios, for example, would not fit in that style. Just like Area are not included in the archives inside the "Italian prog" genre.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 13:41 |
Carakhallo wrote:
erik neuteboom wrote:
SPANISH PROGROCK
SHOULD HAVE AN OWN BRANCH LIKE ITALIAN!!!!
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Whoever is responsible for creating prog genres in Progarchives may consider this proposal.
I love Italian prog, but although it's clearly symphonic prog
it's usually considered as a different style. Here, in progarchives,
it's classified as "Italian prog". Maybe "Italian symphonic prog"
would be more correct, since it's a unique way of playing
symphonic prog, with a certain feeling. And every Spanish prog
band is here classified as "Symphonic prog", when Spanish music shows
something really unique: that flamenco influence you can't find
anywhere.
I think someting should be done, this style deserves being a genre
by itself. Wouldn't it be nice that Progarchives decided to change
this, creating the "Spanish prog" genre?
Of course, not every Spanish band would deserve being inside that
category, just basically bands from the south of Spain, showing
flamenco influences (Cai, Alameda, Cal, Triana, Zaguán, Imán, Mezquita,
Medina Azahara, etc.). Fusioon, Eduardo Bort, Iceberg or Canarios, for
example, would not fit in that style. Just like Area are not included
in the archives inside the "Italian prog" genre. |
sign me up for the 'revolution'.... I make and toss a mighty mean Molotov cocktail
I'll leave the strategy to you all, I'll be the punk in the
street posting signs and causing general mayhem hahahah. It
should be it's own sub-genre though.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 14:17 |
OK, I just posted this in the Collaborators Discussion (Old Lounge):
"Hello progheads.
Last week I opened a thread entitled Spanish Prog!, after a slow start it has grown until at least six pages, even band members joined the thread. I can make one conclusion:
IS IT POSSIBLE TO CREATE AN OWN CATEGORY FOR SPANISH PROG BECAUSE OT ITS UNIQUE AND VERY DISCTINCTIVE BLEND OF PROGROCK AND FOLK, ESPECIALLY FLAMENCO?
Would you give your opinion?
Thanks in advance!"
I am looking forward to reactions, this is the first step!
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: February 05 2006 at 14:19 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
OK, I just posted this in the Collaborators Discussion (Old Lounge):
"Hello progheads.
Last week I opened a thread entitled Spanish Prog!, after a slow
start it has grown until at least six pages, even band members joined
the thread. I can make one conclusion:
IS IT POSSIBLE TO CREATE AN OWN CATEGORY FOR SPANISH PROG BECAUSE OT
ITS UNIQUE AND VERY DISCTINCTIVE BLEND OF PROGROCK AND FOLK, ESPECIALLY
FLAMENCO?
Would you give your opinion?
Thanks in advance!"
I am looking forward to reactions, this is the first step! |
good job... and if you need me to crack a few heads let me know... one
of my lesser known talents hahahaha. Us southern boys know a
thing or two about fighting dirty...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Carakhallo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: February 06 2006 at 04:11 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
OK, I just posted this in the Collaborators Discussion (Old Lounge):
"Hello progheads.
Last week I opened a thread entitled Spanish Prog!, after a slow
start it has grown until at least six pages, even band members joined
the thread. I can make one conclusion:
IS IT POSSIBLE TO CREATE AN OWN CATEGORY FOR SPANISH PROG BECAUSE OT
ITS UNIQUE AND VERY DISCTINCTIVE BLEND OF PROGROCK AND FOLK, ESPECIALLY
FLAMENCO?
Would you give your opinion?
Thanks in advance!"
I am looking forward to reactions, this is the first step! |
GREAT, Erik, thanks for your support!
And you know the force is at our side, we have Micky-Rael, the aerosol
kid, to kick some asses 
Please, keep us informed, will you? Let's fight to death!
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Carakhallo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: February 06 2006 at 05:40 |
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I have listened again to Mezquita, it's ok, a good album, but not one
of the best IMO. It was edited quite late (1980?), so it's more rock
than other spanish albums (although it's still prog). The thing is it
shows very few new things, since Triana, Alameda, Cai, Imán... and all
the great bands from the Spanish prog scene were already there. The
only interesting thing I think is the FORCE of this record, more
guitar-oriented. But I find the voice quite rough, too strong for my
taste... more ROCK-oriented. In fact, next Mezquita CD was plain ROCK.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: February 06 2006 at 05:42 |
OK, a matter of taste Carakhallo , I love the Morish inspired atmosphere !
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Carakhallo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: February 06 2006 at 05:45 |
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Yes, I forgot!! It's true, that's the other new and interesting thing, the Morish atmosphere, you're right!
But, as you know, flamenco is a mixture from Morish and gipsy music, that's why sometimes andalusian music sounds Morish.
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Pagasarri
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 02 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 34
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Posted: February 06 2006 at 05:52 |
I love mezquita's Recuerdos de mi tierra. At first, it didn't impressed me, but this christmas a rescue it and give it a chance. I was totally amazed with that wondeful music I love the voice, specially in the first song, operatic style. But, i's a matter of tastes Well done erik. I wish they take care of your proposal and in a short period spanish prog will recognize as a unique prog style
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Lord of lords king of kings has returned to lead his children home to take them to the new Jerusalem
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: February 06 2006 at 09:49 |
Can we organize a progrock convention in the Alhambra in Granaga ? I have been there once during a trip through Andalusia, it is the best and most wonderful proove of the Morish influence. And we have visited the gypsies their luxurous houses in the caves, very wierd experience, especially when they all started to play guitar and singing and dancing! I only missed the Hammond organ, Mellotron and Minimoog synthesizer!
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Carakhallo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 114
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Posted: February 06 2006 at 10:18 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
Can we organize a progrock convention in the Alhambra in Granaga ?
I have been there once during a trip through Andalusia, it is the best
and most wonderful proove of the Morish influence. And we have visited
the gypsies their luxurous houses in the caves, very wierd experience,
especially when they all started to play guitar and singing and
dancing! I only missed the Hammond organ, Mellotron and Minimoog
synthesizer! |
Hehehe!
Yes, Granada is a beautiful place. I live very far from that city (about 1000 Km) but I've been there twice and it is beautiful
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Pagasarri
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 02 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 34
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Posted: February 08 2006 at 07:59 |
So, is that the definitive end?? I have discovered a new interesting band form Jerez de la Frontera (Cádiz) called Onza. They have 3 albums, one of them is a demo. The first is called "Reino rocosos" from 1990, the second (demo) "Onza 2000" from the year 2000 and the third "Zona Crepuscular" it was released in 2003 Musicians: Jaime Padilla: Guitars and vocals David Navarro: Drums Alberto Márquez: keyboards Alfonso Romero: Bass Germán González: vocals Spanish folk-tinged fusion band on the Musea-Parallele label. A
three-piece, their sound is fairly unique, doesn't compare to
much else out there: sorta light and fresh, with plenty of sophisticated
musical muscle, extremely tight playing, and a well-balanced sense of
direction. Tends to be acoustically oriented, and should appeal to fans
of Metheny, DiMeola, and like that.
Onza is not another clone of Triana, that's for sure. Very personal music
They are quite good, with flamenco touches so erik... they are waiting for you to be discovered ajja
Another interesting band is mediterráneo, which makes a jazz fusion prog rock, but very relaxing. I mean, with no stridencies. That type of music fom the levantine coast of spain is called "rock layetano"
A few bands of that genre: Mediterraneo, coses and the majority of catolinan prog bands bands during the 70s
Layetanian rock mix progressive rock with jazz touches and catolonian folk tendencies resulting a very interesting and quite good prog movment. More catolinan bands with strong jazz and fusion influences: "musica urbana", max sunyer, "compañia electriuca dharma", "barcleona Traction", Juame sisa, etc.
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Lord of lords king of kings has returned to lead his children home to take them to the new Jerusalem
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Spanish prog!