Prog & Alternative Rock don`t mix

I think it is time I stopped and wondered why everybody links alternative to punk. While there are links, they are other origins for this 'movement' and some of it come from post-punk, new wave, pop rock (taking from the Beatles inspired tunes) etc......

It is relatively generic name to describe rock (englobing also some pop) from 85 until now.

Slipper3ry

I'd give up if I was you!!!

Chris knows his subject quite well and I fully agree on his arguments. Punk was not born to destroy prog!!! It was simply the pendulum movement of public taste. However it did ridicule it a bit, needing the spotlight - bold comments picked upon by the press who saw this as heavenly-dropped - but needing also the airplay to make a living

Prog killed itself by releasing awfull , bloated and terribly overly (and overtly) self-conscious pompous and bombastic music from 75 onwards.

 rubbish. Punk was a reaction against acts like the Stones, Who, Rod Stewart etc becoming distant from their roots and playing overpriced stadium gigs. Punks were either indifferent to prog (the big symphonic acts) or actually liked some of it - Johnny Rotten was a fan of VDGG/Hammill and Krautrock, the Damned were Soft Machine fans and were produced by Nick Mason and so on>>

This is the most thoughtful and insightful blurb I have read in a while. It goes against the grain of mainstream thinking in many ways and since most mainstream thinking about prog or music, including that of the hollowed (sic intended) Ivory Towers, is crap, I must applaud, applaud applaud.

One of the reasons I like it is because for years, perhaps decades, I have been trying to figure out why Johnny Rotten would be anti-prog when prog, especially his nemesis Pink Floyd, was criticizing the same thing that punk was, the crass over commericalization of modern life. I've heard him say on several occassions that he was not against what Yes or Pink Ployd were doing. We must divorce our thinking about music from marketing concepts that filter every thought we have about everything. 

Wasn't Bob Geldoff in the "Bottom Rats" when Roger Waters called him for "The wall"?

s1ipp3ry wrote: In My Opinion Prog & Alternative Rock don`t mix  and heres why .... Alternative Rock is born out of whatever intelligence can be found in Punk Rock , Punk being the genre that tried to KILL prog in the 70`s  (but failed) is a good reason why Prog and Alternative rock should never be mentioned in the same sentence , as a mark of respect to our ELITE form of art (Prog) and those Progressive Titans who got screwed by commerce around that time ....  I have been trying to get you guys to see the light on this subject for awhile now, I hope this topic makes you think about it or perhaps give some interesting thought and ideas to perhaps Enlighten me.   After all I wouldn`t mix my finest Scotch whisky with some cheap no name brand Cola would you ?  because thats what you are doing when you mix Prog with Alternative rock you are making the Prog lesser quality, oh sure art is about expression, thats granted ... but is a fart art ?

I'm not sure I fully understand why so many seem to be down on punk, modern rock, etc. just because it isn't prog. Is all you listen to prog? That would be a shame. Why not listen to anything and if it sounds good to your ears, listen to it again and not worry if it's prog or if it's some elaborate musical passage or some three chord rock?

Listening to something that is two chords repeating and enjoying it doesn't make you less of an intellect or make people think less of you.  If you like some prefabricated, overproduced, studio trickery-laced pop by the latest pop prince (or princess) and lilke it, so what? 

You eat a variety of foods (I hope), don't you? Sometimes you have toast and jam, sometimes you go out and have a gourmet meal. Sometimes you have your fine Scotch, sometimes you have orange juice. You wouldn't subject your tastebuds to the same food everytime you sit down for a meal, why are you doing the same for your ears? Does eating a ham sandwich take away from the fact that one loves French cuisine?

And I don't think punk was really out to destroy prog. Punk was a reaction to the popular forms of rock at the time. Punk was against the stadium rock where most of the audience was half a kilometre from the stage. Punk brought it back to the clubs. Punk brought rock back to the basics of 50's and 60's rock, where anyone could pick up a musical instrument and rock, rather than go through years of music lessons. Punk was against the 70's notion that concerts should include a long, lingering guitar solo, a drum solo or even (shudder) a bass solo. After all, shouldn't music be about how it makes you feel, rather than how well someone could play mixolidian modal passages in 19/4 timing? Most of the punk rage against prog was just to hit some sacred cows and simple bravado.

OK, rant over, sorry to ramble. Last thought: Since relatively few people listen to prog as opposed to other forms of rock, wouldn't that make prog "alternative" by definition?

sl1ppery's argument against the fusion of punk/alt rock and prog is self-contradictory. he compares it to mixing something "pure" with something "impure" or "common". he should ask himself: how was prog itself born? a: it was the "pure", "wholesome", "high" art of classical and jazz music mixed with the "common", "pedestrian", "low" art of rock music. Only by fusing genres, recycling old ideas together, can new styles be invented. Every time new genres are bred, the result is greater and newer, a step forward. That's why the all-inclusive Mr. Bungle is my favorite group at the moment, as are the punk-prog Mars Volta, the alt rock-prog Radiohead, etc. Ignoring and brushing aside the new is just something done to simplify the world, to keep your old world perfectly framed and undamaged. It resists change, truth, and right. The old and new must be seen equally.