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Ivan_Melgar_M 
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 Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:30 |
 micky wrote:
Progger wrote:
Judging by this thread alone, people's oppinions is almost over whelmingly in favour of Fragile being the better of the two.So why is Nursery Cryme higher in the prog chart? Tactical reviewing by Genesis fanatics?????? |
You don't have to be here long to realize the site is a haven for the prog-metal fan, and the Genesis fan hahahah.
To follow up on a previous post on Fragile v. Nursery Cryme... some historical perspective.
UK
NURSERY CRYME
Date: 11/05/1974 - Run: *39* (1 wk)
Re #01: 31/03/1984 68 (1 wk)
Total # of weeks: 2-1c ( Top 40: 1)
US
Nursery Crime..did not chart or wasn`t released
UK
FRAGILE
Date: 04-12-1971 - Run: *7*-15-28-0-0-31-24-24-16-36-15-26-47-18-26-0-50-0-21-39-0-0 -0-24 (17-10c/1 wks)
Total # of re-entries: 4 US:#4/46/15
US
FRAGILE
Date: 22-01-1972 - Run: 177-51-17-11- 8-*4*-4-4-4-6-6-6-4-4-5-5-4-7-7-12-15-27-36-4 4-55-68-72-85-88-88-95-102-108-108-110-120-134-134-139-152-1 49-153-161-172 (44/15 wks)
Re #01: 14-04-1984 191-188 (2 wks)
Total # of weeks: 46-44c (Top 10: 15, Top 20: 19 Top 40: 21) UK:#7/17/1
Artist Title Cert. Date Label Award Desc. Format Category Type
YES FRAGILE 03/10/72 ATLANTIC GOLD ALBUM GROUP Std
...neither album charted in France or Germany...
...cannot find any chart information on Nursery Crime other than the one week at #39 in 1974 and as you see above it re-entered the charts at #68 for one week in 1984....other than that...I can`t find it anywhere else in the world..Japan,Canada,Spain , Australia , Norway etc...
some info on how these albums were received back 'in the day'. Nursery Cryme didn't even chart in their home country until what... 3 years after it was released. Why... who knows, bad production, a rep as a boring group  , or the more likely view, they were a 2nd or 3rd rate prog group at the time. Doesn't prove much I know, other than while many hear find Nursery Cryme to be an equal of Fragile, in any kind of objective 'analysis' ... it isn't.
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Your deduction only proves that Thriller and Sturday Night Fever are the best albums of all times, almost a year holding N° 1 position.
If I believed in charts or top 40 lists, I wouldn't be listening Progressive Rock.
Iván
BTW: If I haven't done it, I vote for Nursery Cryme, has the best Genesis song ever and Fragile sounds as an early version of Works by ELP, where every member is allowed to do a solo track, not among my favorite Yes albums.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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stonebeard
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Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
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Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:33 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Winter Wine wrote:
AngleofRepose wrote:
Nursery Cryme. As scattered as it is, all the songs are great. Fragile
contains a majority of bad songs which makes it definitively lower. |
There's not ONE bad song on fragile! 
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Cans and Brahms
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50% for Nothing...if you can call it a song.
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
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Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:34 |
stonebeard wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Winter Wine wrote:
AngleofRepose wrote:
Nursery Cryme. As scattered as it is, all the songs are great. Fragile
contains a majority of bad songs which makes it definitively lower. |
There's not ONE bad song on fragile!
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Cans and Brahms
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50% for Nothing...if you can call it a song.
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We Have Heaven
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avestin
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Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:37 |
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stonebeard
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Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:37 |
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Anyways....I vote for Nursery Cryme wholeheartedly. Fragile is messy as hell, and has only two songs I completely like ("Mood for a Day," "Heart of the Sunrise"). Nursery Cryme, on the other hand, has "The Musical Box," "The Return of the Giant Hogweed," "Seven Stones" "The Fountain of Salmacis" and everything else is either good or benign...no bad tracks.
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stonebeard
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Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:38 |
The Miracle wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Winter Wine wrote:
AngleofRepose wrote:
Nursery Cryme. As scattered as it is, all the songs are great. Fragile
contains a majority of bad songs which makes it definitively lower. |
There's not ONE bad song on fragile!
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Cans and Brahms
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50% for Nothing...if you can call it a song.
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We Have Heaven
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So we've established that, track-wise (not total album time-wise) that Fragile is 1/3 sh*te. 
Edited by stonebeard
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Progger
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Joined: April 26 2005
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Points: 1188
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Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:51 |
stonebeard wrote:
The Miracle wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Winter Wine wrote:
AngleofRepose wrote:
Nursery Cryme. As scattered as it is, all the songs are great. Fragile
contains a majority of bad songs which makes it definitively lower. |
There's not ONE bad song on fragile!
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Cans and Brahms
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50% for Nothing...if you can call it a song.
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We Have Heaven
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So we've established that, track-wise (not total album time-wise) that Fragile is 1/3 sh*te.
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wHILST WEV'E ESTABLISHED NURSERY CRYME IS 100% sh*t. Listening to it is like watching a Carry On movie.
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stonebeard
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Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
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Points: 28057
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Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:55 |
Progger wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
The Miracle wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Winter Wine wrote:
AngleofRepose wrote:
Nursery Cryme. As scattered as it is, all the songs are great. Fragile
contains a majority of bad songs which makes it definitively lower. |
There's not ONE bad song on fragile!
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Cans and Brahms
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50% for Nothing...if you can call it a song.
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We Have Heaven
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So we've established that, track-wise (not total album time-wise) that Fragile is 1/3 sh*te.
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wHILST WEV'E ESTABLISHED NURSERY CRYME IS 100% sh*t. Listening to it is like watching a Carry On movie.
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That's ignorant and you know it's not true. If you believe Nursery Cyme is 100% sh*te, then I don't know what you're doing listening to prog.
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stonebeard
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Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: December 28 2005 at 23:58 |
Progger wrote:
Judging by this thread alone, people's oppinions is almost over whelmingly in favour of Fragile being the better of the two.So why is Nursery Cryme higher in the prog chart? Tactical reviewing by Genesis fanatics?????? |
Stop with the conspiracy theories already. Only a fool would try to do something like that, and frankly we don't have that many fools on this site, though some threads would point to something different. Simply put, it's a good album. So is Fragile. But the individual tracks (except perhaps Jon's) are toss-aways.
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Zac M
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 00:02 |
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^Good to know that somebody shares the same sentiments as me!
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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The Miracle
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Joined: May 29 2005
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 00:06 |
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Well, Nursery Cryme is a great, solid album, with no filler(except the two minutes of For Absent Friends, which IMO is a good short song). Fragile has, as Ivan mentioned above a few songs that are individual solo tracks by members which are pretty weak and boring. Fragile is easily the weakest album of Yes' 71 - 77 period. They made their true triumph with CTTE, which I prefer over Nursery Cryme. CTTE is #1 on the chart, so it's fair enough.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 00:18 |
Progger wrote:
Judging by this thread alone, people's oppinions is almost over whelmingly in favour of Fragile being the better of the two.So why is Nursery Cryme higher in the prog chart? Tactical reviewing by Genesis fanatics?????? |
Do you know how to count??????
Nursery Cryme
- Ricochet
- Supper's Ready
- Prog Jester
- Dalex 61
- Angel of Repose
- Flipstone
- BJ-1
- Meurglys III
- At Loss for Words
- Tony Fisher
- Fragile DT
- Solaris
- R De Niro
- Atkingani
- A'Swepe
- Chamberry
- Stonebeard
- Octamarium
- The Miracle
- Herbie 53
- Ivan_2068
- Avestin
Fragile:
- Winter Wine
- Progger
- Moatilliatta
- Buckethead
- Paulieg
- XT Chuck
- NetsNJFan
- Gentletull
- Tommy
- Raindance
- Micky
- Walrus333
- Olympus
- Rover
- Oliverstoned
- Fandango
- AtlanticCatFan
- Los Endos
- Harold Dupont
It was a hard job, but just wanted to prove that you talk without doing research, you just say Fragile wins and we must believe you EVEN WHEN YOU'RE NOT SAYING THE TRUTH.
When you wrote this post NURSERY CRYME WAS WINNING 19 AGAINST 17 VOTES EXPRESSED IN THIS THREAD.
AT THIS MOMENT NURSERY CRYME IS WINNING 23 AGAINST 19. (Counting the last vote for Nursery Cryme after I posted this reply)
Before you bark, read and count, unless you want to count the many times you, Micky and , Winter Wine wrote how great was Fragile and what a crap was Nursery Cryme.
Even if I missed 1 or two votes (What I douubt, because double checked, your "almost over whelmingly triumph of Fragile in this thread" is CRAP.
Iván
EDIT: Sorrry Stonebeard, I missed your vote, even worst for Progger's credibility, I corrected it.
Edited by ivan_2068
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stonebeard
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 00:24 |
Ivan:
Nursery Cryme:
22. stonebeard
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Mikerinos
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Joined: August 11 2005
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 00:25 |
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Tough choice, but I like Nursery Cryme a bit better. I like Roundabout and South Side of the Sky more than anything on Nursery Cryme, but NC is the better overall album in my opinion.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 00:51 |
Hey Progger: According to the top 100, Fragile is 9 and Nursery Cryme is 10, so we Genesis fans could be ranting against that after this thread in which NURSERY CRYME IS WINNING (I will check how many newbies vote this night ), but no way, opinions change and statitistically this is a virtual tie, something that is reinforced by this thread.
You created a Top 20 alternative thread, and I proved you that other reliable web sites have similar results, you only make a point in threads were anonymous votes can be altered, here where everybody has to post with his nick, we are in the right path.
So you better take your conspiracy theories to other places, Prog Archives is the most reliable source for Prog and MOST members are decent people.
Iván
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Progger
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Joined: April 26 2005
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Points: 1188
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 01:24 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
Hey Progger: According to the top 100, Fragile is 9 and Nursery Cryme is 10, so we Genesis fans could be ranting against that after this thread in which NURSERY CRYME IS WINNING (I will check how many newbies vote this night ), but no way, opinions change and statitistically this is a virtual tie, something that is reinforced by this thread.
You created a Top 20 alternative thread, and I proved you that other reliable web sites have similar results, you only make a point in threads were anonymous votes can be altered, here where everybody has to post with his nick, we are in the right path.
So you better take your conspiracy theories to other places, Prog Archives is the most reliable source for Prog and MOST members are decent people.
Iván
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Ivan,
Your statistics prove that 'Fragile' is by far the superior album. BTW, you forgot another reason why the public and the critics didn't rate it in it's heyday....the songs [except the closing section of 'Musical Box' is rubbish!
Goodnight!
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 01:34 |
Progger wrote:
ivan_2068 wrote:
Hey Progger: According to the top 100, Fragile is 9 and Nursery Cryme is 10, so we Genesis fans could be ranting against that after this thread in which NURSERY CRYME IS WINNING (I will check how many newbies vote this night ), but no way, opinions change and statitistically this is a virtual tie, something that is reinforced by this thread.
You created a Top 20 alternative thread, and I proved you that other reliable web sites have similar results, you only make a point in threads were anonymous votes can be altered, here where everybody has to post with his nick, we are in the right path.
So you better take your conspiracy theories to other places, Prog Archives is the most reliable source for Prog and MOST members are decent people.
Iván
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Ivan,
Your statistics prove that 'Fragile' is by far the superior album. BTW, you forgot another reason why the public and the critics didn't rate it in it's heyday....the songs [except the closing section of 'Musical Box' is rubbish!
Goodnight!
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1. How????
2. An ignorant generalization.
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FragileDT
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VIP Member
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 01:35 |
Progger wrote:
ivan_2068 wrote:
Hey Progger: According to the top 100, Fragile is 9 and Nursery Cryme
is 10, so we Genesis fans could be ranting against that after this thread in
which NURSERY CRYME IS WINNING (I will check how many newbies vote
this night ), but no way, opinions change and statitistically this is a
virtual tie, something that is reinforced by this thread.
You created a Top 20 alternative thread, and I proved you that other
reliable web sites have similar results, you only make a point in threads
were anonymous votes can be altered, here where everybody has to post
with his nick, we are in the right path.
So you better take your conspiracy theories to other places, Prog
Archives is the most reliable source for Prog and MOST members are
decent people.
Iván
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Ivan,
Your statistics prove that 'Fragile' is by far the superior album. BTW,
you forgot another reason why the public and the critics didn't rate it in
it's heyday....the songs [except the closing section of 'Musical Box' is
rubbish!
Goodnight! |
Progger, is your point just to piss everyone off in this forum? If you read
the statistics that Ivan has given, you must not have a brain if you
respond the way you did.
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 01:49 |
^Apparently, that's exactly his point
How are they rubbish? Are the compositions weak? is the musicianship poor? is the production bad?
On Nursery Cryme every song is solid and balanced, while Fragile has a bunch of filler. It was an experimental album, with each member having his solo track. (Cans And Brahms for Wakeman, We Have Heaven for Anderson, 5% for nothing for Bruford, The Fish for Squire, Mood For A Day for Howe) There are only four complete quality songs. Out of those, Roundabout and Long Distance Runaround are really nothing special. Fragile is the weakest of classic Yes. Nursery Cryme is one of Genesis' greatest albums. Isn't that obvious?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
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Posted: December 29 2005 at 02:02 |
Please guys, calm down.
There's no way to win with Progger, he LIES about the results to show how Fragile is "suposedlly" better.
After proving him he was talking crap NURSERY CRYME HAD MORE VOTES (verified name by name), he changes his sermon.
Now, even when statistics prove he is wrong he says that Nursery Cryme is a one song album.
According to this guy:
- If Fragile gets more votes Fragile is better
- If Nursery Cryme gets more votes it's more popular and for that reason it's worst.
The funnier thing is he doesn't said why he lied (Maybe it's that he never learn to count), and before anybody askes him why??? He says good night and runs.
He has no arguments except lies and aggression, as The Who wrote for Tommy:
We ain't gonna take you,
Never did and never will!
We ain't gonna take you,
(...)
Let's forget you better still!
Tommy by The Who lyrics (We're not gonna take it)
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Nursery Cryme vs Fragile
