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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Harmonica and prog
    Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:02
Greetings everyone.

I play harmonica and I am therefore interested in any progressive bands that incorporates the harmonica?  Not necessarily in a progressive way however.

I know the mandolin player from Lindisfarne plays Harmonica for VdGG in their late line-up, but is there any more instances?

I'm curious to hear harmonicas used in a different way (if that is possible), from the standard blues sound.

Any help would be appreciated.
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lucas View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:06
Check out the polish fusion band SBB, Jozef Skrzek, their leader plays mouth-organ on most of their albums.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:09
Cheers Lucas, I shall do.

Is it normal type playing, or more experimental playing?  Harmonicas are limited, I realise, but I've always thought there maybe a way of incorporating it into prog.  Multi-layered harmonica, recording it backwards..., I guess these things have been done before.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:22

It's rather normal playing, Jozef Skrzek is mainly known for his skills for keyboards (and he is also a good vocalist !) and the mouth-organ is very occasional.

"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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iguana View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:37
progressive harp playing: john popper of blues
traveler, but you probably knew that already...

most folks here might cringe at the subject because
it conjurs up visions of chris squire during the scond
verse of "and you and i" ("the preacher the teacher"
section)

ian anderson of jethro tull is known to play a fair bit of
harmonica alongside his usual paraphernalia of
instruments – YES employed james zavala – the
bloke who played the wicked solos on "missionary
man" by eurythmics – on "love will find a way" (squire
mimes the harp solo in the video, actually). other
than that, mark feltham's work with talk talk and mark
hollis is very interesting. can't think of anyone else
right now.

prog rock with its wide spectrum should be able to
accomodate the odd harmonica as long as it stays
clear of the blues cliche. i like the instrument, it is
simple yet effective and i play a bit myself. have fun!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:49
Ah, I've heard of John Popper and Mark Feltham (he played on some Rory Gallagher albums I think).

I agree about the blues cliché thing.  I love the blues and I can play blues riffs, but I want to use the instrument for different styles.  I normally try and play along to everything (not necessarily successfully mind), whether it be prog, blues of ballads.

I can play along to a bit of VdGG's 'The Aerosol Grey Machine'.

I also agree that there is room for more harp in prog, not over blown mind, but the odd experiments would be cool... If only I had CuBase, I could make my own harmonica based tunes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:56
A lot of blues based proggers used the harp, since the instrument was integral to a lot of delta and subsequent Chicago blues. One of my favourite blues based numbers is Zappa's Crew Slut. Jaco Pastorius in his solo career used harp players such a Toots Thielmann, e.g  nice harp and bass duo of Blackbird - although the sax is far more expressive instrument for jazz fusion.
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iguana View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:03
Originally posted by Geck0I also agree that there is room for 
<br />more harp in prog, not over blown
<br />mind, but the odd experiments would be cool... 
<br />[/QUOTE Geck0I also agree that there is room for
more harp in prog, not over blown
mind, but the odd experiments would be cool...
[/QUOTE wrote:




do you specifically mean the "overblow" technique? i
can bend a few notes to add some distorted bluesy
flavour but i'm n


do you specifically mean the "overblow" technique? i
can bend a few notes to add some distorted bluesy
flavour but i'm nowhere near as far as that. any
suggestions how to start? we'd probably have to
move to a harp forum for this...

just thought of a few more: there is a harmonica on
peter gabriel's "kiss that frog" and it is PG playing it
(saw it live). there is a short harp riff in the beginning
of "paper blood" by ELP (played by greg lake) – keith
emerson played some harmonica on the recent THE
NICE tours. nothing to write home about, though.
plus there is a pretty impressive solo during the
middle part of "jungle ride" by fish. steve hackett is
known to be a very keen harp player, although most
people seem to prefer that he wasn't ok, that's a
wrap!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:08
There's a harmonica on Peter Hammill's Viking (from Fool's Mate)
and a nice solo at the end of Procol Harum's Your Own Choice (from
Home). Gary Brooker also played harmonica on other tracks (not
necessarily prog though). Oh, I forgot Supertramp!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:18
Ah yes, I made a glaring error..., of course I meant the Mandolin player from Lindisfarne played Harmonica on Fool's Mate by Peter Hammill and not with VdGG.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Erm, I can bend notes, but it's not all about that, I find blow notes can be used effectively too.  I've taught myself mind (initially had a book, but left it behind ages ago), so I maybe do it completely wrong.  I play on the top half of the harp, so I get a single note, but of course, using a variety is good too.  Plus I can make a clicking noise with my tongue, that has an interesting affect too.

I think some cool sounds could be used in prog, if one was to put their mind to it

Are there any harmonica players in this forum that supply tips on playing?  I know it's a tad off topic...
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iguana View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:26
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Erm, I can bend notes, but it's not
all about that, I find blow notes
can be used effectively too.  I've taught myself mind
(initially
had a book, but left it behind ages ago), so I maybe
do it completely
wrong.  I play on the top half of the harp, so I get a
single
note, but of course, using a variety is good too.  Plus
I can make
a clicking noise with my tongue, that has an
interesting affect too.



ok, let's milk this before we get chucked out the
effect of rolling an "R" (like rammstein's singer does)
has a really cool snarling or growling effect and
makes the harp sound pretty menacing. shame that i
can't really afford a tube amp. but attaining overblows
on the top scale has so far evaded me. i know that
the downbends can be achieved by altering your
jaw's position and mouth cavities but i can't seem to
find a way of doing the upward overblow. i always
end up totally out of breath and it is slowly becoming
quite unhealthy, so please help if you can

@ everyone else: just ignore this...
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:33
Erm, I'm not sure, as I've said, I've taught myself...

I have the same issues with getting out of breath.  I've been told to learn circular breathing (if you can play a didgeridoo, then you can do this) but I'm not sure how to.

And yes, I can do the rolling R effect, but I don't use it all that often, because it makes the jaw ache.

Could you explain what you mean by overblows and downbends?  I'm just a bit braindead this morning.

I just wish I was as good as Duster Bennett was.  I can play the beginning of Christo Redemptor by Charlie Musslewhite (if anyone knows that), but get a bit lost later on when the harp comes back in and I can play Chain Gang by Paul Jones (of the Blues Band) and the Old Gray Whistle Test theme (the band who did that has escaped me).

One more thing: I can kind of play blow notes in a different way..., it's hard to explain, but I'm not breathing in and out like one would when normally playing, it's like playing whilst breathing through the nose I think.  I'm kind of using my top lip and not doing the whistling type mouth position.


Edited by Geck0
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iguana View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:42
are you by any chance on yahoo!-messenger? you
can text me via relayer_hh (my yahoo!-ID), it's
probably more convenient to exchange harp lessons
there, before we truly get kicked out here for being
decidedly un-proggy – i am online now.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:44
Hehe, yes, hang on, I'll try and get it to work, I've not used it in ages.

Right people, back to prog... I'm still open to ideas about harps (not the string instrument) in prog though.
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chopper View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:15
As someone else mentioned, listen to Mark Feltham on Talk Talk's "Spirit of Eden".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:22

some ELP song has harmonica in it... i dont remember which one but it was on the late ELP album... and it is on the Original Bootleg Series From The Manticore Vaults pt3.

 

We want... a shrubbery!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:33
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

As someone else mentioned, listen to Mark Feltham on Talk Talk's "Spirit of Eden".


Fantastic album and some excellent blow harp courtesy of Mr Feltham (he also plays, I think, on Mind Bomb by The The).
I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:35

Captain Beefheart is an amazing harmonica player, although he mostly used the instrument on his more blues based albums. Try Safe as Milk or Strictly Personal. He can also be heard on a blistering live version of The Torture Never Stops on You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol 4.

Peter Hope-Evans was one half of eccentric British duo Medicine Head, who weren't exactly prog but who were around during the glory years 1969-76. He has also worked with Pete Townshend, and occasionally acts as Mark Feltham's stand-in with Robbie McIntosh's band. He has his own bizarre website, which includes some strange sound samples - click on the blurry shapes www.peterhope-evans.co.uk .

Can used harmonica on Outside My Door (Monster Movie) and Edgar Froese plays a blast of harp on one of the tracks on Stratosfear. One of Kraftwerk's early albums featured a track called Harmonika, but it was just a scale blown on a diatonic recorded at half speed.

 

 

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom


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lucas View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:39
Also worth mentioning is the short mouth organ opening section on one of the tracks of Supertramp's 'crime of the century'.

Edited by lucas
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 09:09
It's not about the harmonica, it's not even about prog.
I just have to say it again...

THE COWBELL IS UNDERRATED!
I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them fall away.
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