Harmonica and prog
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14864
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Topic: Harmonica and prog
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Subject: Harmonica and prog
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:02
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Greetings everyone. I play harmonica and I am therefore interested in any progressive bands that incorporates the harmonica? Not necessarily in a progressive way however. I know the mandolin player from Lindisfarne plays Harmonica for VdGG in their late line-up, but is there any more instances? I'm curious to hear harmonicas used in a different way (if that is possible), from the standard blues sound. Any help would be appreciated. -------------   
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Replies:
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:06
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Check out the polish fusion band SBB, Jozef Skrzek, their leader plays mouth-organ on most of their albums. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:09
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Cheers Lucas, I shall do. Is it normal type playing, or more experimental playing? Harmonicas are limited, I realise, but I've always thought there maybe a way of incorporating it into prog. Multi-layered harmonica, recording it backwards..., I guess these things have been done before. -------------
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:22
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It's rather normal playing, Jozef Skrzek is mainly known for his skills for keyboards (and he is also a good vocalist !) and the mouth-organ is very occasional. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:37
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progressive harp playing: john popper of blues
traveler, but you probably knew that already... most folks here might cringe at the subject because it conjurs up visions of chris squire during the scond verse of "and you and i" ("the preacher the teacher" section) 
ian anderson of jethro tull is known to play a fair bit of harmonica alongside his usual paraphernalia of instruments – YES employed james zavala – the bloke who played the wicked solos on "missionary man" by eurythmics – on "love will find a way" (squire mimes the harp solo in the video, actually). other than that, mark feltham's work with talk talk and mark hollis is very interesting. can't think of anyone else right now. prog rock with its wide spectrum should be able to accomodate the odd harmonica as long as it stays clear of the blues cliche. i like the instrument, it is simple yet effective and i play a bit myself. have fun! |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:49
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Ah, I've heard of John Popper and Mark Feltham (he played on some Rory Gallagher albums I think). I agree about the blues cliché thing. I love the blues and I can play blues riffs, but I want to use the instrument for different styles. I normally try and play along to everything (not necessarily successfully mind), whether it be prog, blues of ballads. I can play along to a bit of VdGG's 'The Aerosol Grey Machine'. I also agree that there is room for more harp in prog, not over blown mind, but the odd experiments would be cool... If only I had CuBase, I could make my own harmonica based tunes. -------------
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 03:56
| A lot of blues based proggers used the harp, since the instrument was integral to a lot of delta and subsequent Chicago blues. One of my favourite blues based numbers is Zappa's Crew Slut. Jaco Pastorius in his solo career used harp players such a Toots Thielmann, e.g nice harp and bass duo of Blackbird - although the sax is far more expressive instrument for jazz fusion. |
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:03
do you specifically mean the "overblow" technique? i can bend a few notes to add some distorted bluesy flavour but i'm nowhere near as far as that. any suggestions how to start? we'd probably have to move to a harp forum for this... just thought of a few more: there is a harmonica on peter gabriel's "kiss that frog" and it is PG playing it (saw it live). there is a short harp riff in the beginning of "paper blood" by ELP (played by greg lake) – keith emerson played some harmonica on the recent THE NICE tours. nothing to write home about, though. plus there is a pretty impressive solo during the middle part of "jungle ride" by fish. steve hackett is known to be a very keen harp player, although most people seem to prefer that he wasn't ok, that's a
wrap! |
Geck0I also agree that there is room for
Posted By: paulindigo
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:08
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There's a harmonica on Peter Hammill's Viking (from Fool's Mate)
and a nice solo at the end of Procol Harum's Your Own Choice (from Home). Gary Brooker also played harmonica on other tracks (not necessarily prog though). Oh, I forgot Supertramp! |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:18
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Ah yes, I made a glaring error..., of course I meant the Mandolin
player from Lindisfarne played Harmonica on Fool's Mate by Peter
Hammill and not with VdGG. Thanks for the tips guys. Erm, I can bend notes, but it's not all about that, I find blow notes can be used effectively too. I've taught myself mind (initially had a book, but left it behind ages ago), so I maybe do it completely wrong. I play on the top half of the harp, so I get a single note, but of course, using a variety is good too. Plus I can make a clicking noise with my tongue, that has an interesting affect too. I think some cool sounds could be used in prog, if one was to put their mind to it Are there any harmonica players in this forum that supply tips on playing? I know it's a tad off topic... -------------
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Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:26
ok, let's milk this before we get chucked out the
effect of rolling an "R" (like rammstein's singer does) has a really cool snarling or growling effect and makes the harp sound pretty menacing. shame that i can't really afford a tube amp. but attaining overblows on the top scale has so far evaded me. i know that the downbends can be achieved by altering your jaw's position and mouth cavities but i can't seem to find a way of doing the upward overblow. i always end up totally out of breath and it is slowly becoming quite unhealthy, so please help if you can @ everyone else: just ignore this... |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:33
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Erm, I'm not sure, as I've said, I've taught myself... I have the same issues with getting out of breath. I've been told to learn circular breathing (if you can play a didgeridoo, then you can do this) but I'm not sure how to. And yes, I can do the rolling R effect, but I don't use it all that often, because it makes the jaw ache. Could you explain what you mean by overblows and downbends? I'm just a bit braindead this morning. I just wish I was as good as Duster Bennett was. I can play the beginning of Christo Redemptor by Charlie Musslewhite (if anyone knows that), but get a bit lost later on when the harp comes back in and I can play Chain Gang by Paul Jones (of the Blues Band) and the Old Gray Whistle Test theme (the band who did that has escaped me). One more thing: I can kind of play blow notes in a different way..., it's hard to explain, but I'm not breathing in and out like one would when normally playing, it's like playing whilst breathing through the nose I think. I'm kind of using my top lip and not doing the whistling type mouth position. -------------
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Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:42
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are you by any chance on yahoo!-messenger? you
can text me via relayer_hh (my yahoo!-ID), it's probably more convenient to exchange harp lessons there, before we truly get kicked out here for being decidedly un-proggy – i am online now. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 04:44
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Hehe, yes, hang on, I'll try and get it to work, I've not used it in ages. Right people, back to prog... I'm still open to ideas about harps (not the string instrument) in prog though. -------------
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:15
| As someone else mentioned, listen to Mark Feltham on Talk Talk's "Spirit of Eden". |
Posted By: nimrodel
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:22
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some ELP song has harmonica in it... i dont remember which one but it was on the late ELP album... and it is on the Original Bootleg Series From The Manticore Vaults pt3. ------------- We want... a shrubbery! |
Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:33
Fantastic album and some excellent blow harp courtesy of Mr Feltham (he also plays, I think, on Mind Bomb by The The). ------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision. - Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:35
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Captain Beefheart is an amazing harmonica player, although he mostly used the instrument on his more blues based albums. Try Safe as Milk or Strictly Personal. He can also be heard on a blistering live version of The Torture Never Stops on You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore vol 4. Peter Hope-Evans was one half of eccentric British duo Medicine Head, who weren't exactly prog but who were around during the glory years 1969-76. He has also worked with Pete Townshend, and occasionally acts as Mark Feltham's stand-in with Robbie McIntosh's band. He has his own bizarre website, which includes some strange sound samples - click on the blurry shapes http://www.peterhope-evans.co.uk - www.peterhope-evans.co.uk . Can used harmonica on Outside My Door (Monster Movie) and Edgar Froese plays a blast of harp on one of the tracks on Stratosfear. One of Kraftwerk's early albums featured a track called Harmonika, but it was just a scale blown on a diatonic recorded at half speed.
------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 08:39
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Also worth mentioning is the short mouth organ opening section on one of the tracks of Supertramp's 'crime of the century'. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: jackinthegreen
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 09:09
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It's not about the harmonica, it's not even about prog.
I just have to say it again... THE COWBELL IS UNDERRATED!  ------------- I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them fall away. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 09:17
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 12:39
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from the early 70's Switzerlands KROKODIL
produced one of the best fusions of progressive rock and blues based rock with the album An Invisible World Revealed. Harpheads should try that one, pretty much a classic! Curiously Krokodil is still not in the PROGARCHIVES. 
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Posted By: Chipiron
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 12:43
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I can only remember the beginning and the end of the album "Crime of the century" (Supertramp) and I'm not even sure. Sorry. ------------- [IMG]http://www.belderrain.es/GIFs/tora.gif"> |
Posted By: stag
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 13:23
| The Finnish jazz/rock band "Wigwam" has some nice/romantic harmonica playing on their record "Tombstone Valentine" (1970) in the beginning track of the record "Tombstone Valentine". Not too progressive though. |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 14:05
The OGWT theme was Stone Fox Chase by Area Code 615. I forget the name of the harmonica player though ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 24 2005 at 21:31
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Ah, I shall google it Syzygy! Thanks for the ideas guys, I'll have a look out for some of them. Ah, I do remember a Supertramp track with harp on, it gets played on Planet Rock on Digital Radio sometimes... And Cowbells remind me of Ski Sunday... Is any of this avant-garde type playing? I'm after weirdness with my harp playing, if that is possible? I may have to download that Area Code 615 track, as it sounds like a one-hit wonder type band to me and sort after... I remember the harp playing, but not much else. My father has it on a cassette tape somewhere. If Duster Bennett is your thing, listen to "Fresh Country Jam", it's amazing. He plays harp whilst playing guitar and high-hat, it's a little thought provoking how he could do all that at once! Also listen out for his versions of "Summertime" by George Gershwin. -------------
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Posted By: Olympus
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 04:52
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Chris Squire plays it in a few Yes albums but I can't think of anyone else who plays it. ------------- "Let's get the hell away from this Eerie-ass piece of work so we can get on with the rest of our eerie-ass day" |
Posted By: Genesisprog
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 05:06
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Its not forbidden.We listen music where can musicians experiment every musical instruments what ever they like. Cowbell ,Harmonica,Ukulele what ever. There are no rules what musical instruments has to been used. I know metal band that uses pagpipes....
------------- Frank Zappa,Pink Floyd,Yes,Genesis,Rush,King Crimson,Jethro Tull,E.L.P,Rick Wakeman -They have one similarity- I Love Them all ! |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 05:13
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The Dead Kennedys use bagpipes, but they're not prog and they're not my thing... Interesting instruments that maybe able to be used in prog: Tuba Sousaphone Lute Spoons... I actually really like the sound of the Glockenspiel and Xylophone and I know King Crimson and Colosseum use them, but have yet to hear anyone else use them as a percussion instrument. -------------
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 05:28
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Taj Mahal on his first double live album had a backing band of 3 tubas - checking out Diving Duck from that gig. Acoustic guitar master Stefan Grossman occasionally used tuba backing many years ago, e.g. Hot Dogs. What did Django Bates use in Earthworks and Loose Tubes which sounded like a tuba, but wasn't (E???? horn?)?
And what of the hurdigurdi - Richard Thompson for a start?
BTW we have already done the harmonium |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 05:35
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Which version (i.e. which album): the Blue Horizon Sessions or Blue Inside? I played It's Man Down There from Blue Inside, back to back with the Allman Brother's electric version last night - Duster's version is one of three songs on Blue Inside recorded at a Surrey gig in 1969, including Fresh Country Jam and some great reporte with his audience. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 05:37
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On my Gov't Mule DVD, one of the guest performers (within the brass
band) is playing a Sousaphone, an interesting sound that thing
makes..., plus it's rather large and looks very uncomfortable. Tubular Bells - obvious that one. I guess that album had a lot of instruments on, I cannot remember them all for the moment. I've also seen the Tubular Bells concert on television, it's a must see for anyone who hasn't seen it and is curious. Penny whistle, now that must be very hard to use in prog... Re Duster Bennett: The live version played at The Toby Jug, Godalming I believe, yes the one with Bright Lights Big City, It's A Man Down There and Fresh Country Jam on it. The normal version is Country Jam I believe..., it's not so manic. -------------
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Posted By: M. B. Zapelini
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 05:40
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As for the harp: Moody Blues's Ray Thomas played a nice solo on "22.000 days" ("Long Distance Voyager"). ------------- "He's a man of the past and one of the present" PETER HAMMILL |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 05:43
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Actually, I don't think Bright Lights Big City was played, it was
another tune, the name escaped me for the moment. Bright Lights
Big City was from another gig, which included Just Like A Fish and Just
Like A Treat You and some others and they're on the original Justa
Duster album I believe and now on the Blue Horizion Sessions CD.
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Posted By: Genesisprog
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 05:52
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The list of musical instruments that we can use in prog can be very very long
------------- Frank Zappa,Pink Floyd,Yes,Genesis,Rush,King Crimson,Jethro Tull,E.L.P,Rick Wakeman -They have one similarity- I Love Them all ! |
Posted By: paulindigo
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 06:21
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As for pennywhistle, it's featured on Supertramp's (again!) first
album and on Tubular Bells. In both cases it's referred to as a flageolet. I know that in origin flageolet was a different instrument from the tin whistle/pennywhistle, now I think the word is used as a homonym. As for the cowbell, listen to Procol Harum's Whiskey Train, it's almost the main instrument. Supertramp have harmonica on several songs: School from Crime of the Century, Take the long way home from Breakfast, something from their first (don't remember the title...) etc. Tuba was used by Herbie Flowers on Camel's Nude |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 10:16
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I think the three live tracks on offer on Blue Inside, have a slight edge on those found on the Blue Horizon Sessions - there must be 5 or more CDs of Duster Bennett outtakes, demos etc, released by Indigo, although at least one of the later releases looks to be a repackaging and shuffling of tracks from the first 3 albums. |
Posted By: CandyAppleRed
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 10:36
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I'm pretty sure it was on the opening of "School", but I may be wrong - not heard it for years!
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 10:50
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does anyone have a clue why Krokodil(Switzerland),
which made the best example of progressive rock using the harmonica as a central instrument, is not in the ProgArchives? Is it TOO NOT Symphonic English styled?
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 12:30
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I have all the Indigo CDs (well, I have one, my brother has the others,
but their at the house at the moment, because I've borrowed them) as
well as the Australian only release. I now also own the Blue
Horizon Sessions too, so I have most of his stuff. I agree, the Toby Jug, Godalming recordings are better than the official Blue Horizon live tracks (from Justa Duster album originally). There's a Man Down There and Fresh Country Jam are just the best examples of his one man band playing. I really want to hear experimental harp playing, especially on a prog tune. Keep the bands who played harmonica coming, it's much appreciated. -------------
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Posted By: Froth
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 15:54
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I guess multi-layered harmonicas would sound not unlike a harmonium (which essentially is a giant harmonica) and they have been used frequently in prog. Whith Gryphon using them heavely on their first album and Greenslade use them on 'Spyglass Guest'. i think Mike Oldfield uses one as well. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 18:34
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They aren't prog and I know he has been mentioned before but who plays a harmonica better than John Popper of Blues Traveller?No one that I have ever heard. -------------  |
Posted By: ldlanberg
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 22:57
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Early J. Geils Band! Yeah, I know, you'll probably going to say that is strict blues. Ok, let's compromise: Progressive blues (Seth Justman did play some mean organ / kybds.). ------------- LDL |
Posted By: ChadFromCanada
Date Posted: November 25 2005 at 23:39
| Someone already mentioned it, but Supertramp do use harmonica. I can only think of it in School at the moment, but they probably use it for more than that. |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: November 26 2005 at 01:55
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whammer jammer by J. Geils Band
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: November 28 2005 at 00:18
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i don't think there is harmonica on Vangelis' Ballad (Spiral album), but the keyboards really sound like an harmonica. just hear the singer: "ti da....twe do do du do"..."ta da da da da ti!"
HOWEVER, HAVE YOU NOTICED THE HARMONICA IN THE BEGINNING & END OF TANGERINE DREAM 'S "3am At The Border Of The Marsh From Okefenokee" TRACK (stratosfear album)? YEP! ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: tardis
Date Posted: November 28 2005 at 01:31
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Don't know if this had been mentioned already, but Archive features a nice little harmonica bit in the introduction of Again (from the album You All Look The Same To Me) |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: November 28 2005 at 13:10
| Mats Öberg of the Mats/Morgan Band, apart from doing some phenomenal keyboards, and the usually Stevie Wonder impression on vocals, also does a great harp, as I was reminded this weekend having at last found a copy of their album Trends & Other Diseases. |
Posted By: DEzerov
Date Posted: November 28 2005 at 13:38
"Paper Blood" from Black Moon. For a while the band had a Greg Lake autographed harmonica available for purchase on line. Ray Thomas played some sweet harp on "Under Moonshine" on the Moodies' Octave besides on "22.000 Days"...  ------------- The moon is made by some lame cooper and you can see the idiot has no idea about moons at all - Nikolay Gogol |