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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 15:28 |
Manunkind wrote:
Unfortunately the fact that a band is remembered longer doesn't say anything about its quality, only perhaps about the marketing that has gone into promoting it. Proof? Bands like Bubu, Indian Summer, Raw Material, Khan or Catapilla who were just as talented as the Big Five but were simply out of luck. Same goes for all walks of art, IMO - how many people remember such classics of literature as William Gaddis' 'The Recognitions' or Samuel Beckett's novels?
And it's obvious that a more accessible artist will almost always remain in social consciousness longer than a less accessible one, if only because it can enter this consciousness faster and on a larger scale. Of course thousands of acts light up and fail every year, but there are very interesting acts that only light up in very small circles.
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I don't disagree with all that you've said, but I don't believe that many of the great prog bands who's names have carried thru the years.. are any more accessible than the ones you've mentioned. Bands like Gentle Giant, Camel, or VDGG have never been considered very accessible bands, but they're names still carry some weight.
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THIS IS ELP
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 14:55 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
It's funny to see some prog metal fans criticizing Yes, Genesis or even the Italian Symphonic bands and then saying Prog metal is great.
Without British and Italian Symphonic bands, Prog' Metal wouldn't exist or at the most would be just some more obscure metal bands unknown by most of the world.
Some guys like Fantomas try to provoke reactions calling the great bands cheesy, but they don't achieve their goal because such absurd comment can't provoke anything but laugh.
The band Fantomas is good (A bit too loud though), I can't deny this fact, but ithey are only an obscure subterranean group than in 2 or 3 years will be forgotten forever, while people keep talking about Yes, Genesis or PFM 30 + years.
Iván
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Unfortunately the fact that a band is remembered longer doesn't say anything about its quality, only perhaps about the marketing that has gone into promoting it. Proof? Bands like Bubu, Indian Summer, Raw Material, Khan or Catapilla who were just as talented as the Big Five but were simply out of luck. Same goes for all walks of art, IMO - how many people remember such classics of literature as William Gaddis' 'The Recognitions' or Samuel Beckett's novels?
And it's obvious that a more accessible artist will almost always remain in social consciousness longer than a less accessible one, if only because it can enter this consciousness faster and on a larger scale. Of course thousands of acts light up and fail every year, but there are very interesting acts that only light up in very small circles.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Fantômas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1859
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 14:38 |
ivan_2068 wrote:
It's funny to see some prog metal fans
criticizing Yes, Genesis or even the Italian Symphonic bands and then
saying Prog metal is great.
Without British and Italian Symphonic bands, Prog' Metal wouldn't exist or at the most would be just some more obscure metal bands unknown by most of the world.
Some guys like Fantomas try to provoke
reactions calling the great bands cheesy, but they don't achieve
their goal because such absurd comment can't provoke anything but
laugh.
The band Fantomas is good (A bit too loud though), I
can't deny this fact, but ithey are only an obscure subterranean
group than in 2 or 3 years will be forg... |
Edited by Fantômas
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And above all, is punk
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 14:33 |
It's funny to see some prog metal fans criticizing Yes, Genesis or even the Italian Symphonic bands and then saying Prog metal is great.
Without British and Italian Symphonic bands, Prog' Metal wouldn't exist or at the most would be just some more obscure metal bands unknown by most of the world.
Some guys like Fantomas try to provoke reactions calling the great bands cheesy, but they don't achieve their goal because such absurd comment can't provoke anything but laugh.
The band Fantomas is good (A bit too loud though), I can't deny this fact, but ithey are only an obscure subterranean group than in 2 or 3 years will be forgotten forever, while people keep talking about Yes, Genesis or PFM 30 + years.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 14:23 |
Fantômas wrote:
NetsNJFan wrote:
exactly........they are insanely talented.............much moreso than the group FANTOMAS and their noise posing as music
I hate how if someone says they are 'avant-garde' ppl think they are intellectual and deep, when in reality they are making boring noise not music.
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PFM is the worst piece of crap that ever existed on earth. Appena Un Po makes me laugh, it's ridiculous...
If PFM is music, and Fantomas is "not-music", you can deduce that "not music" is SO MUCH better than "cheesy music".
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...whatever Fantöööööööööööööööööööööööööömass!!!!
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Fantômas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1859
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 14:17 |
NetsNJFan wrote:
exactly........they are insanely talented.............much moreso than the group FANTOMAS and their noise posing as music
I hate how if someone says they are 'avant-garde' ppl think they are
intellectual and deep, when in reality they are making boring noise not
music. |
PFM is the worst piece of crap that ever existed on earth. Appena Un Po makes me laugh, it's ridiculous...
If PFM is music, and Fantomas is "not-music", you can deduce that "not music" is SO MUCH better than "cheesy music".
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And above all, is punk
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 13:00 |
Tony Fisher wrote:
Pete Hamill's voice is a disaster looking for somewhere to happen. I like most prog but VDGG do NOTHING for me. |
You obviously never really listened to Peter Hammill. He can sing very beautifully and often does, when his songs are about tenderness and love. But when his songs are about anger, hate or angst his voice reflects that as well. Which is why he is definitely my favorite singer, he brings the emotions across. Singers who always try to sing "beautifully" suck, in my honest opinion.
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Rhayader
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 79
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:29 |
memowakeman wrote:
supertramp!!! |
Well, they're hardly a prog band.... I still like 'em, they make pop pretty well.
The worst prog band I've heard? Probably one of the many crap prog
metal bands I've heard whos names I have (thankfully) forgotten.
Another thing: why is everyone constantly bashing Asia? Just because
they're prog musicians (well, Geoff Downes isn't really) does that mean
they can't play other sorts of music? It's prog musicians making pop,
and I think it's done quite well. There's nowt wrong with that is there?
Edited by Rhayader
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"Sadder still to watch you die than never to have known it..."
Rush - Losing It
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:22 |
Tony R wrote:
threefates wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Guess:
The cheesiest prog group with the cheesiest album covers and the cheesiest fans...
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And this coming from the cheesiest member of this board....
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You've not had much cheese-if you think that I'm the cheesiest!
I bet cheese makes you dream....
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No, but that picture does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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THIS IS ELP
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:19 |
Tony R wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
Miaugion wrote:
Almost anything with Clive Nolan in it, e.g. Shadowland, Casino, Arena as well as any band that tries to sound like Arena. |
That is what is wrong with threads like this. One man's nectar is another man's poison. I happen to like Arena and Clive Nolan very much and when I read posts like this, it puts me off a bit.
Miaugion...you are entitled to like whoever and dislike wehoever you want. I am not bitching about your post as I am more bitching about this thread.
No good can come from a negative thread such as this.
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Well,quit bitchin' then!!!
And stop being negative about other people being negative-that's soooo negative!
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I thought this thread was supposed to be about bands that were trying so hard to be progressive that they came off as cheesy...i.e...like a Spinal Tap. Instead it degenerated into blasting legitimate bands such as Arena. Now, all I see is a bunch of bickering.
Tony R...you insufferable @#$!.( I saw Shaun of the Dead...I laughed my ass off on that stupid thing. Loved it!!)
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:16 |
frippertronik wrote:
CARVAN - pretty good band i thought
ASIA - sucks
GTR - sucks more |
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:14 |
threefates wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Guess:
The cheesiest prog group with the cheesiest album covers and the cheesiest fans...
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And this coming from the cheesiest member of this board....
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You've not had much cheese-if you think that I'm the cheesiest!
I bet cheese makes you dream....
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:13 |
gdub411 wrote:
Miaugion wrote:
Almost anything with Clive Nolan in it, e.g. Shadowland, Casino, Arena as well as any band that tries to sound like Arena. |
That is what is wrong with threads like this. One man's nectar is another man's poison. I happen to like Arena and Clive Nolan very much and when I read posts like this, it puts me off a bit.
Miaugion...you are entitled to like whoever and dislike wehoever you want. I am not bitching about your post as I am more bitching about this thread.
No good can come from a negative thread such as this.
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Well,quit bitchin' then!!!
And stop being negative about other people being negative-that's soooo negative!
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:13 |
Tony R wrote:
Guess:
The cheesiest prog group with the cheesiest album covers and the cheesiest fans...
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And this coming from the cheesiest member of this board....
But thanks for posting it... looking at Greg's chest always makes me all warm inside...
Edited by threefates
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THIS IS ELP
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frippertronik
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 173
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:13 |
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a plague of lighthouse keepers
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 12:10 |
Miaugion wrote:
Almost anything with Clive Nolan in it, e.g. Shadowland, Casino, Arena as well as any band that tries to sound like Arena. |
That is what is wrong with threads like this. One man's nectar is another man's poison. I happen to like Arena and Clive Nolan very much and when I read posts like this, it puts me off a bit.
Miaugion...you are entitled to like whoever and dislike wehoever you want. I am not bitching about your post as I am more bitching about this thread.
No good can come from a negative thread such as this.
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 11:47 |
exactly........they are insanely talented.............much moreso than the group FANTOMAS and their noise posing as music
I hate how if someone says they are 'avant-garde' ppl think they are intellectual and deep, when in reality they are making boring noise not music.
Edited by NetsNJFan
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Miaugion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 22 2004
Location: Christmas Island
Status: Offline
Points: 295
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 11:44 |
Almost anything with Clive Nolan in it, e.g. Shadowland, Casino, Arena as well as any band that tries to sound like Arena.
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You house proud town mouse
ha ha, charade you are
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mirco
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2005
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 819
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 11:19 |
Now you are being just provocateur...
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Please forgive me for my crappy english!
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Fantômas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1859
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Posted: May 28 2005 at 11:17 |
flowerchild wrote:
Fantômas wrote:
Genesis or Yes. |
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Ok, I'm sorry... I found two bands that are worse (in fact, I like Yes' Drama and Relayer a bit):
PFM and Banco.
Now, these 2 are the worse bands EVER.
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And above all, is punk
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