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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 18134 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike
    Posted: April 11 2011 at 20:38
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
Gah! Bad maths - just because some albums are $35 it does not follow that they all are. Not sure what the exchange rate is at the moment, but I guess 35 aud is about 20 gbp - I rarely pay more than £10 for a CD at the moment.
 
It isn't an imperative that you review 100s of albums, and it certainly isn't a PA requirement.
 
Shw1 was referring specifically to illegal downloads from torrents and blogs, not promo-copies and official streams - both of which are perfectly legal.
 
It is very clear in the site rules and guidelines that the PA does not support or permit illegal activities - and that means that we also do not encourage or condone reviews of illegally obtained albums. Any site member who states that it is okay to review a stolen album is technically infringing site rules.
 
 
And sometimes I question some of those reviews that we are seeing posted with over-rated marks and comments ... when the album was not even bought more than likely ...
 
You do know that you probably could drop several hundred bands from the PA archives on the MP3 thing alone, right? And that most of the reviews done are by people that have downloaded the mp3 off a service that allows them to ... and sometimes you don't have to ... there are plenty of them on the internet ... and again ... the main reason for my requesting a tightening on the belt of reviews, is because many of those reviews are based on one song ... not an album ... which, of course, as you say, is against the PA guidelines .... but what me worry when someone wants to give his friends a good rating and PA allows them to?
 
Again ... the review process needs to be looked at I imagine ... and like I mentioned in the other thread, that review by the same person of 2 Caravan albums is so off base as to be silly .... and I seriously doubt that person even heard one song in either album ... and when they didn't hear For Richard ... they turned it off! Sorry ... FAIL! And process ignored!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 05:24
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
 
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Apocalyptica don't have a vocalist ... and most of their guest vocalists don't growl, even the female ones.
I agree again (geeeee, this ain't my day isn't it??).... When they're in my bed, they don't growl.... they meoowwwwBig smileLOLWink
Lucky you - they have had some stunning female guest vocalists too. Cristina Scabia, Linda Sundblad, Claudia Uhle Heart ... however, I doubt Nina Hagen would meoowwww, even in your bed. LOL
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 05:22
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

You'd better delete my "Incantations" review as I never owned a copy of my own.
The point is we cannot prove that - it may have been a borrow from the library (many of Hugues's reviews are) or from a mate at work/school/rotary club/brother/dad etc... again, all of which are perfectlyh legal. We have no mechanism for detecting reviews of illegal downloads - as everybody has implied - the review is of the content, not where it came from - there is no backward tracability. All we can say is don't do it, and don't encourage it in others.

I won't encourage others certainly. Cannot promise anything else.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 05:19
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

You'd better delete my "Incantations" review as I never owned a copy of my own.
The point is we cannot prove that - it may have been a borrow from the library (many of Hugues's reviews are) or from a mate at work/school/rotary club/brother/dad etc... again, all of which are perfectlyh legal. We have no mechanism for detecting reviews of illegal downloads - as everybody has implied - the review is of the content, not where it came from - there is no backward tracability. All we can say is don't do it, and don't encourage it in others.
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Points: 20436 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 05:10
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

2. The criterium should be if the album's format is listenable and if the reviewer listens carefully, not the way is it obtained (although a legal way would be fine, of course).
Reviewing an album obtained illegally is distasteful and disrespectful in my opinion, regardless of the rating it's given.
 

For the first time ever (I think) Dean...I disagree with you.
For the first time ever (I think) Dean...I agree with you.LOLTongueWink
 
 
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Apocalyptica don't have a vocalist ... and most of their guest vocalists don't growl, even the female ones.
I agree again (geeeee, this ain't my day isn't it??).... When they're in my bed, they don't growl.... they meoowwwwBig smileLOLWink
 
Actually I agree about the ammoral issues of illegal downloading, but if the reviewer doesn't admit to it... not much we can do about it...
 
 
 
 
A


Edited by Sean Trane - April 09 2011 at 05:22
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 05:09
You'd better delete my "Incantations" review as I never owned a copy of my own.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 05:09
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Any site member who states that it is okay to review a stollen album is technically infringing site rules.
 
 

Oops!
It's okay - I spotted and corrrected my mistake, you can review as many of these as you like:
 
 
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 05:07
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Any site member who states that it is okay to review a stollen album is technically infringing site rules.
 
 

Oops!
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 05:04
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Originally posted by ShW1 ShW1 wrote:

"stop reviewint etc":
In my opinion, there are two conditions for posting a good, relaible review, or rating:
 
1 - listening to an album at least 4 times. Even album you dislike.
 
2 - The album should be ligally perchased. as CD, MP3, or any other format.
If one person DL an album from I-dont-know-where, listened to it bearly once, doing other things while listening and not fully concentrated, and than say 'yauchhhk, what a disgusting album', and than send a review/rating, well I dont think it's reliable.
 
Indeed, these two terms are biased the ratings up a bit, but I prefere this situation than annoying case as described by the OP.
 
So you are saying we have to buy hundreds of albums just so we can review them?
 
Not possible unless you are dripping with wealth. One CD can cost $35. Multiply that by 100 and you have a small fortune. 
 
I get Cds sent to me by artists, or they send links to download, or I just borrow albums, as well as listen online and purchase some CDs. Admittedly I have a huge CD collection but I did not take risks and buy without hearing first online in most cases.
 
Whats the problem with that - the album still gets a fair hearing. Whats it matter where you get it from?
Gah! Bad maths - just because some albums are $35 it does not follow that they all are. Not sure what the exchange rate is at the moment, but I guess 35 aud is about 20 gbp - I rarely pay more than £10 for a CD at the moment.
 
It isn't an imperative that you review 100s of albums, and it certainly isn't a PA requirement.
 
Shw1 was referring specifically to illegal downloads from torrents and blogs, not promo-copies and official streams - both of which are perfectly legal.
 
It is very clear in the site rules and guidelines that the PA does not support or permit illegal activities - and that means that we also do not encourage or condone reviews of illegally obtained albums. Any site member who states that it is okay to review a stolen album is technically infringing site rules.
 
 


Edited by Dean - April 09 2011 at 05:07
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 04:43
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Apocalyptica don't have a vocalist ... and most of their guest vocalists don't growl, even the female ones.
Ah there you go, I have not heard any of their albums and assumed they were growlers according to the genre.
Which is why people unfamiliar with a subgenre or artist should excercise caution when making blanket statements in their reviews. However, we all do it, life is too short to go through every album of a band when the first thing we heard by them was something we didn't like, so we make assumptions and move onto something we do like.
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 04:30
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Apocalyptica don't have a vocalist ... and most of their guest vocalists don't growl, even the female ones.
Ah there you go, I have not heard any of their albums and assumed they were growlers according to the genre.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 04:28
Apocalyptica don't have a vocalist ... and most of their guest vocalists don't growl, even the female ones.
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 04:27
Originally posted by ShW1 ShW1 wrote:

"stop reviewint etc":
In my opinion, there are two conditions for posting a good, relaible review, or rating:
 
1 - listening to an album at least 4 times. Even album you dislike.
 
2 - The album should be ligally perchased. as CD, MP3, or any other format.
If one person DL an album from I-dont-know-where, listened to it bearly once, doing other things while listening and not fully concentrated, and than say 'yauchhhk, what a disgusting album', and than send a review/rating, well I dont think it's reliable.
 
Indeed, these two terms are biased the ratings up a bit, but I prefere this situation than annoying case as described by the OP.
 
So you are saying we have to buy hundreds of albums just so we can review them?
 
Not possible unless you are dripping with wealth. One CD can cost $35. Multiply that by 100 and you have a small fortune. 
 
I get Cds sent to me by artists, or they send links to download, or I just borrow albums, as well as listen online and purchase some CDs. Admittedly I have a huge CD collection but I did not take risks and buy without hearing first online in most cases.
 
Whats the problem with that - the album still gets a fair hearing. Whats it matter where you get it from?
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2011 at 04:12
I read a few posts above but 8 pages worth ... nah!
 
My take is that we can review any genre any album any artist. If we dont like the artist we can review it anyway. If we dont like the sub genre we can still review it. It keeps the album honest, and not just one that receives fanboy reviews which are annoying at best. I review albums from sun genres I dont like - RIO, though I find there are some goos albums in the gnre. the same with jazz that I am not that into, but there are some good albums. I dont like growls in metal vocals but I can appreciate how they sit in certain genres and whether the album will appeal to those who do like growls. I think we have to remain impartial and present honest reviews acording to those who will buy the albums not those who will avoid them. So if you dont like growls you wont buy Opeth, or Death or Apocalyptica for example. I do like Opetrh though for sheer musicainship and the fact they dont growl continuously.
 
Its a matter of taste of course. But a reviewer has to tell it how it is according to their tastes and the tastes of the general buying public.
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Points: 12794 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2011 at 17:00
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by scophone scophone wrote:

LOL I can't agree
Stern Smile I'm watching you.

I'd be scared that emoticon creeps me out.

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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2011 at 16:45
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

Originally posted by frippism frippism wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by scophone scophone wrote:

LOL I can't agree
Stern Smile I'm watching you.

I'd be scared that emoticon creeps me out.

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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2011 at 14:00
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

2. The criterium should be if the album's format is listenable and if the reviewer listens carefully, not the way is it obtained (although a legal way would be fine, of course).
Reviewing an album obtained illegally is distasteful and disrespectful in my opinion, regardless of the rating it's given.
 

For the first time ever (I think) Dean...I disagree with you.
For the first time ever ( I think) SD.....I agree with you

Oh come on...it's not that bad!LOL
TrueSmile we can be very forgiving. My friend says cardiff was awesome weather today. Cool.....sorry back on topic.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2011 at 13:47
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

2. The criterium should be if the album's format is listenable and if the reviewer listens carefully, not the way is it obtained (although a legal way would be fine, of course).
Reviewing an album obtained illegally is distasteful and disrespectful in my opinion, regardless of the rating it's given.
 

For the first time ever (I think) Dean...I disagree with you.
For the first time ever ( I think) SD.....I agree with you

Oh come on...it's not that bad!LOL
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2011 at 13:40
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

2. The criterium should be if the album's format is listenable and if the reviewer listens carefully, not the way is it obtained (although a legal way would be fine, of course).
Reviewing an album obtained illegally is distasteful and disrespectful in my opinion, regardless of the rating it's given.
 

For the first time ever (I think) Dean...I disagree with you.
For the first time ever ( I think) SD.....I agree with you
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2011 at 11:30
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 

 
It's quite true that there aren't many albums (in those genres I cited) that I actually like, but then again most of those genres keep flinging out new albums that are beating the same old ground... and that's bloody boooooooring to me, and extended boredom sessions drive me to sort of dislike the album that drives to that state.
 
That's the main reasn why I would rate badly an album... and I'd tend to want to warn potential victims to stay away from it, whatever genre it might be in.
 
 
if we weren't allowed to rate things we like less, then every rating left would be good ratings and therefore useless to the decerning prospective proghead...
 
 
 


This is actually the root of the 'problem' people complaining about negative reviews for prog metal have. They don't have any problem or at least not as much of a problem with bands going over the same ground as long as it's prog metal.  But that cannot be a valid reason for people not to post reviews stating this and therefore giving a somewhat low rating. 

Not directed at this post, but about growls... I used to think before that that is not a valid reason to bring down the rating but, there's another way to look at it. Addressing that 'issue' tells listeners that it's not an album with broad appeal.  We can discuss this 10 years from now and growls will still polarise listeners and there will still be many listeners who don't like growls. So, it's not even a question of open mindedness, growls simply aren't for everyone and an album with narrower appeal should ideally have a lower average rating than another great album with broader appeal.  An album appealing to only a certain section of listeners and still occupying the top 10 of PA doesn't make a lot of sense. 

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