iPod Legality Question

În Germany we have a somewhat unique "exception" in our laws: Some of the restrictions usually defined by the rights holders don't apply for private use. That means that no matter whether a rights holder allows you to make private copies, you can do it. Also, differently to most other countries, you are allowed to make private copies of CDs and then sell the original, or borrow CDs from friends and copy them.

Personally I don't think this is ok ... in essence it means that for any burned/copied CD you have you can always say that you copied it from a friend, and nobody could prove you downloaded it from p2p (unless the files are watermarked of course).

Asses do bite arses, though.

Also illegal, Ghandi 2, because then two separate consumers are benefitting from paying once for the work. To take it to an extreme, what if the person you sold the CD to then copied it and sold it to someone else who then copied it and sold it to someone else who...

In the UK, if I remember correctly it's currently illegal to copy a CD to MP3 even for yourself, but the UK Government intends to (may have done so recently?) change the law because that particular law 'is an ass', to use the popular saying, and everyone is ripping their CDs to MP3 for their iPods.


EDIT: Yep, my memory was correct:

Daily Telegraph 30 Oct 2006 - Why you are breaking the law every time you copy a CD to your iPod

But, as I said, the current law is an ass and will no doubt be changed.

Edited by Fitzcarraldo - January 01 2007 at 22:17

Fitzcarraldo wrote: Vompatti, I don't know about your libraries, but in the libraries where I have used a photocopier, I had to complete and sign a form saying that I was photocopying a page or article for the purposes of academic research, for example. If you look in the front of every book you will find a clause stating something similar to the following: "All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reprinted, or reproduced or utilized in any form or by any electronic, mechanical or other means, now known or hereafter invented, including photocopying and recording, or in any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from the Publisher." The above is from a book I just picked at random from my bookshelf. It's very clear: you cannot copy it. Full stop. Same applies to CDs and LPs.

Wikipedia article on copyright

Universal Copyright Convention

Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works

Rome Convention for the Protection of Performers, Producers of Phonograms and Broadcasting Organisations

World Intellectual Copyright Treaty

Member states of the World Intellectual Property Organisation

In the majority of countries (you can find links on the above Web pages to lists of the signatories) the above four treaties mean that the copying of a music album in which the artist and/or producer has asserted his/her rights over the work -- usually within a time frame of a fixed number of years (e.g. 50 years in the UK's case) -- is illegal, and for perfectly valid commerical and ethical reasons.

I understand that in some countries there are a few exceptions, for example a copy by a music critic for the purpose of publication of a review, or a copy by an academic for the purposes of research but, by and large (and certainly in the USA), the answer to what Ghandi 2 is asking is, unequivocally: it's illegal. And, putting aside the legalities, in the vast majority of cases it's unethical if the artist and/or publisher has asserted his ownership of the work.

Of course, in practice in every country that is a signatory to one or more of the main four copyright treaties you can find street sellers or even shops selling pirate CDs and DVDs. But that does not mean to say it's legal in that country, just that the law is not being enforced or that piracy is not under control.

By the way, some of you might be interested to read a recent BBC article about the failed attempt by Sir Cliff Richard to get the UK Government to extend the protection of copyright from the present 50 years to 95 years:

Musical copyright set to stay at 50 years

Shakespeare wrote: If it is illegal, it shouldn't matter. Besides VDGG, all bands are super rich and don't need the money.

Tell that to the many thousands of groups and solo artists who are struggling to make a living from their music. Tell that to the smaller, independent record companies which are commercial concerns that are not raking in money and are perfectly entitled to expect people to pay for listening to albums that the company produces, distributes and markets.

For example, consider PENDRAGON's biggest seller, "The Masquerade Overture". If I remember correctly, it has sold around 65,000 copies worldwide. That is absolute peanuts. An artist is not going to get rich selling those sorts of numbers of CDs. So why should people be able to copy it for free? Why is that ethical? It isn't.

Fitzcarraldo wrote: It's no different to photocopying a book, which is also illegal.

So why are there copy machines in libraries?

If it is illegal, it shouldn't matter. Besides VDGG, all bands are super rich and don't need the money.

But personally I think it's fine as long as you actually help the CD in your hands before uploading it into iTunes.

It would be illegal in Britain, and I'm sure it would be the same in The States.

if you would be keeping the material for ever and not discard it at some point it will became a PROPERTY of yours and that's illegal because you didn't buy it (or took it with the copyright owner's agreement). this is only a guess as i don't have a proper knowledge of legal stuff. i also guess it would be legal for your friend to temporary share his music with you by giving you a copied cd but it would become illegal if you didn't return it. however i think the way i see things is not the proper one as it puts things on moving sands - HOW LONG does it take for having non-bought music to become an illegal property?