iPod Legality Question
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32741
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Topic: iPod Legality Question
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Subject: iPod Legality Question
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 21:32
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I got a 30 gb iPod Video for Christmas, and I have a question.
If I borrow a CD from a friend or a library and upload it onto my iPod, is that legal/moral? My uncle said it was, but it seems to me like it would be stealing since I am getting copyrighted material without paying for it. Thanks for your help. |
Replies:
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 21:39
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Nah dude you can do that...I guess the theory is somebody payed for the CD so it is all good. ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 21:41
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I think it is fine. How do you think I got Rush? Besides if it was payed for by somebody I am sure it is okay. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 21:42
So that makes filesharing legal then? Somebody paid for it  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Zappa88 wrote:Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 21:49
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That's exactly why I am doubting it. If it's ok, then it's possibly the greatest loophole ever, but I still have copyrighted material TO KEEP without the artist getting anything.
By this logic, I could buy a CD, copy it, and then resell it. And that's obviously wrong. Right? |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 21:51
That last question there is a brain boggler, but if you are just burning CDs then nobody is gonna come track you down for it. I never thought of a legal issue, but the cops arent gonna bust you for doing this. Its just a question of ethics  ------------- Beauty will save the world.
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Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 21:52
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I think the law is if you're not making money off it and it's kept relatively private it's fine. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: December 31 2006 at 21:56
| It is legal to burn discs for private use like a CD for the car and for home. I burn all my CDs because I do not like carrying 100s of dollars of CDs around. So I burned all my CDs and carry those around because they are easier to replace than CDs. BUt selling burnt copies is definetly illegal. |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 05:06
I think that copying is illegal if you don't own the original CD. Look at this article that I've found: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/28/copying_is_theft_and_other/ - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/28/copying_is_theft_and_other/ ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 07:00
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if you would be keeping the material for ever and not discard it at some point it will became a PROPERTY of yours and that's illegal because you didn't buy it (or took it with the copyright owner's agreement). this is only a guess as i don't have a proper knowledge of legal stuff. i also guess it would be legal for your friend to temporary share his music with you by giving you a copied cd but it would become illegal if you didn't return it. however i think the way i see things is not the proper one as it puts things on moving sands - HOW LONG does it take for having non-bought music to become an illegal property? ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 10:07
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I think there's a law(at least here in Norway) that allows people to share music, movies etc. with friends and family without it being regarded as illegal. So if for example my brother wants to share his new Dream Theater DVD with me, it's perfectly allright for him to do so. The point being; from my point of view, what you are asking seems perfectly legal to me, as long as you're not downloading copyrighted material from the internet etc.
------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 10:14
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It would be illegal in Britain, and I'm sure it would be the same in The States.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 10:19
| I borrow CDs all the time and I'd like to think of myself as a moral man. I personally don't fidn anything bad about it...but that's just me. If it really doesn't eel right for you, than maybe you shouldn't! Your call, dude. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 10:21
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If it is illegal, it shouldn't matter. Besides VDGG, all bands are super rich and don't need the money. But personally I think it's fine as long as you actually help the CD in your hands before uploading it into iTunes. |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 10:22
It's illegal in the USA. You can borrow a CD and play that CD, then return it. You can borrow a CD from a library and play that CD and return it. But if you copy the CD you are infringing the copyright. It's no different to photocopying a book, which is also illegal. Think of it this way: if 1,000 people borrow that same CD from the library and copy it, then 1,000 can listen simultaneously to (i.e. derive benefit from) an album that has been bought once. Ain't fair to the artist or company producing the records. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 10:27
So why are there copy machines in libraries?  |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 10:49
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Vompatti,
I don't know about your libraries, but in the libraries where I have used a photocopier, I had to complete and sign a form saying that I was photocopying a page or article for the purposes of academic research, for example. If you look in the front of every book you will find a clause stating something similar to the following: "All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reprinted, or reproduced or utilized in any form or by any electronic, mechanical or other means, now known or hereafter invented, including photocopying and recording, or in any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from the Publisher." The above is from a book I just picked at random from my bookshelf. It's very clear: you cannot copy it. Full stop. Same applies to CDs and LPs. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 11:05
Tell that to the many thousands of groups and solo artists who are struggling to make a living from their music. Tell that to the smaller, independent record companies which are commercial concerns that are not raking in money and are perfectly entitled to expect people to pay for listening to albums that the company produces, distributes and markets. For example, consider PENDRAGON's biggest seller, "The Masquerade Overture". If I remember correctly, it has sold around 65,000 copies worldwide. That is absolute peanuts. An artist is not going to get rich selling those sorts of numbers of CDs. So why should people be able to copy it for free? Why is that ethical? It isn't. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 14:58
| Depends on the country. Different countries have different policies on this matter. |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 16:06
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright - Wikipedia article on copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Copyright_Convention - Universal Copyright Convention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and_Artistic_Works - Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/rome/index.html - Rome Convention for the Protection of Performers, Producers of Phonograms and Broadcasting Organisations http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/wct/trtdocs_wo033.html - World Intellectual Copyright Treaty http://www.wipo.int/members/en/ - Member states of the World Intellectual Property Organisation In the majority of countries (you can find links on the above Web pages to lists of the signatories) the above four treaties mean that the copying of a music album in which the artist and/or producer has asserted his/her rights over the work -- usually within a time frame of a fixed number of years (e.g. 50 years in the UK's case) -- is illegal, and for perfectly valid commerical and ethical reasons. I understand that in some countries there are a few exceptions, for example a copy by a music critic for the purpose of publication of a review, or a copy by an academic for the purposes of research but, by and large (and certainly in the USA), the answer to what Ghandi 2 is asking is, unequivocally: it's illegal. And, putting aside the legalities, in the vast majority of cases it's unethical if the artist and/or publisher has asserted his ownership of the work. Of course, in practice in every country that is a signatory to one or more of the main four copyright treaties you can find street sellers or even shops selling pirate CDs and DVDs. But that does not mean to say it's legal in that country, just that the law is not being enforced or that piracy is not under control. By the way, some of you might be interested to read a recent BBC article about the failed attempt by Sir Cliff Richard to get the UK Government to extend the protection of copyright from the present 50 years to 95 years: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6186436.stm - Musical copyright set to stay at 50 years ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 17:11
Yes it's illegal, you don't own a legal copy of the album.
It's absolutely legal to make a copy of all YOUR LEGALLY BOUGHT CD'S and copy them in MP3 format or whatever FOR PERSONAL USE, because that's one of the rights the copyright owner allows you.
But YOU have to pay for it first and only for your personal use.
Holy God! a musical Robin Hood!!!!
One question is it legal to steal from Phil Collins house because he's so rich that doesn't matter???? I guess not, then it's equally illegal to steal his music (Yes some people want to steal that
 ).If you are copying other person's property (Yes the musical composition is his property and from his family until 120 years after the first públication in most counries) it's illegal and stealing, doesn't matter if the owner is rich or poor, the act of taking other person's property is exactly the same.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 17:26
You have to fill out forms to photocopy at the library? In CT, we don't have to fill out forms but it's 50 cents for every photocopy you make. ------------- Beauty will save the world.
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 21:00
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Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks for clearing that up. Although I was hoping that I'd discovered an awesome loophole.:)
I pose you another question: what if I copy an album that I have already bought and then sell the original while keeping the copy to listen to? I don't like what the iPod has come to stand for, but I must admit it's pretty cool. I can have about 260-270 albums on it, and that's encoded at the highest quality, 320 kb/s. |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 22:05
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Also illegal, Ghandi 2, because then two separate consumers are benefitting from paying once for the work. To take it to an extreme, what if the person you sold the CD to then copied it and sold it to someone else who then copied it and sold it to someone else who...
In the UK, if I remember correctly it's currently illegal to copy a CD to MP3 even for yourself, but the UK Government intends to (may have done so recently?) change the law because that particular law 'is an ass', to use the popular saying, and everyone is ripping their CDs to MP3 for their iPods. EDIT: Yep, my memory was correct: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/29/nipod29.xml - Daily Telegraph 30 Oct 2006 - Why you are breaking the law every time you copy a CD to your iPod But, as I said, the current law is an ass and will no doubt be changed. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo |
Posted By: billbuckner
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 22:12
| It's illegal, but theres no way in hell that it's going to bite you on the ass. |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 22:18
Asses do bite arses, though.  ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: January 01 2007 at 22:34
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That's also what I thought. Oh well. No free lunch for me :)
I'm not worried about getting caught, or even really breaking the law; I'm worried about the morality. It may technically be wrong to copy a CD I bought, but it's not stealing so I don't really care because it's not like it's hurting the artist like stealing would. Just like I copied a CD my friend is lending me so it is easier for me to listen to it; that may break copyright law, but I'm going to delete it once I give it back to him. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 04:16
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În Germany we have a somewhat unique "exception" in our laws: Some of the restrictions usually defined by the rights holders don't apply for private use. That means that no matter whether a rights holder allows you to make private copies, you can do it. Also, differently to most other countries, you are allowed to make private copies of CDs and then sell the original, or borrow CDs from friends and copy them. Personally I don't think this is ok ... in essence it means that for any burned/copied CD you have you can always say that you copied it from a friend, and nobody could prove you downloaded it from p2p (unless the files are watermarked of course). ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: billbuckner
Date Posted: January 02 2007 at 09:21
| Morally, I suggest you do what I do. Get a copy, and if you like it, buy the album. |