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Uther 
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 04 2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 86
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 Topic: LED ZEPPELIN
Posted: September 29 2006 at 23:01 |
we shall overcome  !
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What! can the devil speak true?
Macbeth, 1. 3
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zFrogs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 254
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Posted: September 29 2006 at 20:13 |
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Heavy Progressive!! YES!!!
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https://www.instagram.com/erifrog/
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Uther
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 04 2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 86
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Posted: September 29 2006 at 16:11 |
 erik neuteboom wrote:
Heavy progressive ...  ...?! |
Why not? 
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What! can the devil speak true?
Macbeth, 1. 3
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 17:51 |
Heavy progressive ... ...?!
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Joolz
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 1377
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 08:48 |
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
Basically LZ is a Hard Blues Rock band... But Progressive... |
 progressive within hard rock. Not Prog
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Dirk
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
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Posted: July 06 2006 at 17:03 |
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Third option, I don't think they are a typical prog band but i do like them a lot so i could hardly oppose their inclusion. If i had to decide objectively being in an addition team i'd say no.
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: July 06 2006 at 16:02 |
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Basically LZ is a Hard Blues Rock band... But Progressive...
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: July 06 2006 at 13:49 |
The funny thing is that back in the 70's, many music critics often spoke of Led Zeppelin in the same breath as ELP and King Crimson. When prog went out of fashion, they bashed for the same reasons are beloved prog bands were-being over intellectual and such. The fact they are blues based shouldn't be held against them either; prog is about combining different genres rather than excluding them.
Then again, in retrospect, Led Zeppelin aren't really prog by todays standards, and prog wasn't really ever used as a label back then. When we look at them today they're strait up blues rock with some prog influences and cool jams.
Led Zeppelin are possibly my favorite band ever. I'm not sure whether or not they should be included, some people wan't them included just becuase they wan't to think every good band is a prog band.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
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Points: 24429
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Posted: July 06 2006 at 05:34 |
Philéas wrote:
To call them "heavy progressive" is quite a long stretch. Like most
people so far have said, they do have progressive moments and deserve
to be included as prog related, but to actually call them progressive
is a slight exaggeration.
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OK, but the same thing could be applied as easily to Queen or other bands. I know some people see red when faced with the equation "if band X is here, so should be band Y" - however, to me at least, it makes perfect sense. One practical example: I've recently bought Wishbone Ash's "Argus" album. Great record indeed, but I really fail to see how it is proggier than a lot of Led Zeppelin's later output. BTW, referring to your previous post, I would be very much in favour of Option 1 - a complete rethinking of the Prog-Related category, possibly with a space reserved with bands who have been influential or influenced by the prog movement when it was in full swing, or even later.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:53 |
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To call them "heavy progressive" is quite a long stretch. Like most
people so far have said, they do have progressive moments and deserve
to be included as prog related, but to actually call them progressive
is a slight exaggeration.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:43 |
After adding The Beatles and ELO to this site, "Should Led Zep be included in PA?" is a rethorical question, ........YES, this innovative heavy progressive band fully deserves an addition on this site  !
Edited by erik neuteboom - July 05 2006 at 18:44
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 18:34 |
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Another factor speaking in favor of Zep's inclusion is that the bar for
what is accepted as prog is fairly low in my opinion, I keep finding
bands that are equally progressive and even less progressive than Zep
around the archives.
The alternatives there are, in my opinion, are these:
1. Clean up the archives a bit and re-define the prog related category
2. Accept the fact that there already are too many not-so-progressive
bands included, and include more such bands (Led Zeppelin for example).
3. Remove the whole prog related category completely (it might do
unjustice to certain artists, but it would strangle the debate).
4. Start a sister site called "Slightly Prog Archives" and move bands like Queen there, and also add bands like Led Zeppelin.
Personally, I think that alternative one or three are the most reasonable.
Edited by Philéas - July 05 2006 at 18:55
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Seyo
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 08 2004
Location: Bosnia
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Points: 1320
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 17:15 |
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I think they should be considered at least as "PROG RELATED".
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: July 05 2006 at 03:25 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
They're not really prog, but I wouldn't be fussed if they were listed here. Excellent band with occasional strong prog leanings. |
My thoughts exactly (though I voted for yes). They're much too influential to be left out. Perhaps we should consider a separate section for those classic late '60s bands like Zep, Cream and The Who that had some influence on the development of prog, at least as far as some seminal bands are concerned.
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I feel the same way basically. Though I would lean more towards them not being included even as prog-related. They had many undeniably proggy moments, and were highly influential, but were mainly a rock band. Your idea of a seperate catagory is intriguing. I'm not sure how I feel about it.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: July 04 2006 at 23:43 |
micky wrote:
mystic fred wrote:
i'm probably sticking my scrawny neck out here, but something's really buggin' me - what the boss would probably call a "sticky topic", but..... should LED ZEPPELIN be included in prog archive???? here's the evidence ; YOUR TIME IS GONNA COME, DAZED AND CONFUSED, THE BATTLE OF EVERMORE, STAIRWAY, THE RAIN SONG, NO QUARTER.... have a listen to those classic tracks and then tell me if they ain't prog! if so i shall throw my prog hat into the river styx and hang my prog head in shame forever. Deep Purple are here and are a worthy, but less so, case than ZEP....so , YES, NO or WHAT...??!!!!! |
What is the greater prog album
Led Zeppelin IV
or
Foxtrot
hahahha.
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Geeez, you sure make it hard don't you. Man, and I thought you were going to make it easy.
Oh well,..........................................................................damn, I guess I will have to side with Foxtrot  
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coffeeintheface
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 397
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Posted: July 04 2006 at 17:56 |
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who cares. A good band is a good band.
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OBQM: www.soundcloud.com/onebigquestionmark (solo project)
nQuixote: www.soundcloud.com/n-quixote (ambient + various musical ideas)
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zFrogs
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 254
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Posted: June 21 2006 at 15:42 |
Maybe Prog Related but I'm not sure about it.
Deep Purple is not a Proto Prog or Prog Related or wherever and I think that Led Zep is more prog then Purple and both are hard rock bands with some prog elements.
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https://www.instagram.com/erifrog/
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crimson thing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 28 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 848
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Posted: June 21 2006 at 14:54 |
I agree on the whole they weren't prog (so no entry here!) And blues was their thing - that was the music they liked. But I would give them credit for progging up Dazed & Confused - especially live - raising it above a straight blues. Also, odd bits of PhysGraf were experimental - not just straight blues.
Not prog - but not far off.
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"Every man over forty is a scoundrel." GBS 
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: June 21 2006 at 14:34 |
Live jamming doesn't make somebody prog. If it did, then DMB and The Grateful Dead would have to be here too, wouldn't they?
I vote no, because prog related can become a slippery slope. IMO, prog related is more for solo projects by prog artists that aren't quite prog (see Peter Gabriel, Jon Anderson, Rick Wright, Syd Barrett, David Gilmour, etc.) instead of artists that occasionally, sometimes have moments that are sort of prog. Queen are more prog than Zeppelin, if simply for Bohemian Rhapsody. (which I don't really like that much, but that's not the point)
Besides, Zeppelin mostly ripped off old Blues songs and played them louder and harder; and that's not very prog.
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Barla
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 13 2006
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 4309
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Posted: June 21 2006 at 14:07 |
Of course, as Prog Related.
They have a lot of Prog moments, like "Stairway To Heaven", "No Quarter", "Dazed And Confused", etc, etc .... all ALL the live jamming, like the live versions of "Dazed...", of 30 minutes or more. Just listen to them and tell me if they aren't Prog !!
And, if here are classic rock bands like Deep Purple and Queen (I agree about them of being Prog Related), why shouldn't Zep be here ?
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