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ElwoodHerring View Drop Down
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Song lyrics to be banned!
    Posted: December 09 2005 at 15:28
Here's a more interesting and up to date link:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20051109/1235223_F.shtml

Even more interesting when you read the sub-links too.

The Internet is awash with stuff like this; all it takes is a bit of clever searching with the right words and you're away! I've gathered an incredible amount of information over he last month or so; far too much to post here, but what I've learned has horrified me; and there seems no end to it.
[IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG">
Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!)
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 15:09
Cheers there Elwood, I guess I shouldn't have been so lazy.  Much appreciated.

Ah yes, Audiogalaxy, I used to actually find stuff on there I can't find anywhere else.
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ElwoodHerring View Drop Down
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 15:01
Here's your answer to the Internet Radio question.

http://www.webfroot.co.nz/?p=196

and

http://news.com.com/Piracy+battle+begins+over+digital+radio/ 2100-1027_3-5236755.html

(remove the space character in that link - it's added automatically when I post it)

A simple Google search will bring up dozens of similar sites. This story is already over a year old!

Edited by ElwoodHerring
[IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG">
Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!)
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 14:51
Argh, bad grammar and spelling there by me...

I agree mate, as I said to someone else earlier..., most (I'd say all) music borrows, or is influenced by something that has gone before (the same applies in literature), so that means everyone can be sued for stealing each others riff, or something.  If they want to be picky, won't don't they do it on a per note basis?  Everyone would be screwed then.

And as for royalty payments, that is bad too, I hope that statement isn't true (unless it applies to Robbie Williams, he doesn't need anymore money).

Could copyright issues banish Internet radio too?  A lot of Internet radios use MP3s, so that means what they are doing is illegal (to the eyes of the big corporate business').
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ElwoodHerring View Drop Down
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 14:41
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

If I record some music myself and I own it and distribute it freely to friends, will I own the copyright? - I'm talking about in the future here.  Also, will I be able to put my music a p2p network to be freely distributed?  I have a right to do what I want with my own music.  If an artist doesn't mind file-sharing, but the publishers of that artist do mind, what rights do
the artist have?  It's already been an issue I believe, where an a lyricist has had to by back his own lyrics.

That's what is starting to worry me too. The way the record companies are throwing their weight around you'd think they invented music, when in actual fact they wouldn't know a crotchet from a hatchet.

Somebody else has just informed me that they are now trying to reduce the amount of royalty payments they pay to artists from 5p to 2.5p per downloaded track. I can't verify this, but if it's true it doesn't surprise me at all. The companies see (and treat) artists as cattle.

Ultimately the arists will lose out (except for the Big Names of course) and the consumers will lose out. Eventually the record company bosses will also lose out as their house of cards comes crashing down around them.

The only people that will win will be the lawyers.
[IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG">
Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!)
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 14:13
I agree Elwood, I covered Jeremy Bentham's Panopticon at University, as well as Japanisation and McDonaldsisation.  It is a huge worry already, so just think of two or three years from now.  I am very worried about being controlled and watched by people who don't even know me.  My spending habits will be tracked (very useful on Amazon mind), phonecalls I make, places I visit too; I won't have any privacy.  I'll be sat in my lounge listening to my favourite music when I'll get a knock on the door and told not to sing along... (that is an extreme example I know)

As for music, I do not want my music listening experience to be affected.  If I record some music myself and I own it and distribute it freely to friends, will I own the copyright? - I'm talking about in the future here.  Also, will I be able to put my music on a p2p network to be freely distributed?  I have a right to do what I want with my own music.  If an artist doesn't mind file-sharing, but the publishers of that artist do mind, what rights does the artist have?  It's already been an issue I believe, where a lyricist has had to buy back his own copyright.

I do not know what us, as consumers can do to stop this though; any suggestions?


Edited by Geck0
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Points: 440 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 14:01
Wot a load of crap! How are we gonna find those ellusive song lyrics to our favourite songs, when we dont have a official cd and the official website dosen't have them!
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ElwoodHerring View Drop Down
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 13:50
Originally posted by Andrew Vernon Andrew Vernon wrote:


Originally posted by ElwoodHerring ElwoodHerring wrote:

but the fact remains that 99% of the
music-loving public are totally unaware or uncaring about the fate of
music that they love and the way they are gradually being shafted. I
intend to shatter this apathy once and for all - our only weapon is to
get the word out and boycott.


You do realise that the majority of people DO NOT in the slightest LOVE music, don't you?

Okay, I'll accept that, but it makes no difference to the argument. Especially when you take into account not just music CDs but also DVDs, in fact any recorded media including the equipment that is used to play it. DRM technology is also creeping into such things as digital cameras and computer equipment, and in the future even things like televisions, scanners, mobile phones, etc. etc. They are even trying to overturn the 1983 Betamax ruling to make it illegal to keep recordings of TV programmes without a license.

Let me quote myself here; this is what I posted on Mark Russinovich's site a few days ago:

"We are only now starting to see the downside of this marvellous new Digital Technology we are surrounding ourselves with. From big media companies to governments, from copy protected CDs to ID cards, "Digital" has one enormous implication that the public at large have not yet grasped; control. If we are not careful we will find ourselves in a few years' time totally controlled, watched and logged by the very digital technology we own; you will not be able to walk a step, say a word or spend a penny without it going onto a database somewhere for somebody else's profit, benefit or misuse. Digital = Controllable. We are all sleepwalking into Orwell's 1984, the only difference is that Big Brother now has computers."


Edited by ElwoodHerring
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Andrew Vernon View Drop Down
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Points: 37 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 13:29
Originally posted by ElwoodHerring ElwoodHerring wrote:

but the fact remains that 99% of the music-loving public are totally unaware or uncaring about the fate of music that they love and the way they are gradually being shafted. I intend to shatter this apathy once and for all - our only weapon is to get the word out and boycott.



You do realise that the majority of people DO NOT in the slightest LOVE music, don't you?
over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.

feed my will to feel this moment, urging me to cross the line.

reaching out to embrace whatever may come.
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 13:03
Originally posted by viperjr98 viperjr98 wrote:


And hey, let's face it, the labels and "musicians" that don't want their lyrics posted don't have much in the way of lyrics anyway.  If my songs included such literary masterpieces as "hit me baby one more time" or "oops, I did it again" I would be embarassed to have my lyrics posted on a website too.


 


Careful - I would be embarrassed if I'd written "And rearrange your liver to the solid mental grace"!

Or how about "Every day a little sadder, a little madder... someone get me a ladder!"

... oops, I did it again (quoted some lyrics that is!)

Edited by ElwoodHerring
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Points: 88 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:51

The key to solving this problem is good old fashioned capitalism.  Supply and demand.  Don't buy CDs from record companies who show this "screw the little guy" attitude.  Buy from small independent companies.

Three great examples:
Sensory Records
InsideOut Music
Metal Blade

I'm sure there's many many many more such companies.  These labels support progressive bands by signing bands and musicians that may not be in the mainstream, but they know will have a loyal following.  This website is one way to create a loyal following.  Sharing files and lyrics is another way.  These labels and bands understand that the more they get their name and product out there by ANY means, the better.

And hey, let's face it, the labels and "musicians" that don't want their lyrics posted don't have much in the way of lyrics anyway.  If my songs included such literary masterpieces as "hit me baby one more time" or "oops, I did it again" I would be embarassed to have my lyrics posted on a website too.

 
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:41
Aye, the RIAA also.  I just read about the Brianna LaHara case, that's just ridiculous sueing a 12 year old!

I do the same as Forgotten Son, I download a couple of full tracks off an album and if I like them, I'll go out and buy the album (if it's available that is, unlike Anglagard albums, which are difficult to locate).

I know not everyone does it that way though; people download whole albums.  Somebody I know downloads albums before they're released, but they are still going out and buying the album officially.  And Brianna's mother paid for iTunes too, so it wasn't p2p downloading either.

Patricia Santangelo is having to defend herself and that's ridiculous too, she cannot really affort all those costs, but she's persuing it anyway and good on her.


Edited by Geck0
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StyLaZyn View Drop Down
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:41
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

This lyric thing is worrying . The next thing is we'll all be banned from singing songs in the shower without paying royalties.



Any of you play in a band that does covers?  Better get the rights from the record companies before playing them.
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ElwoodHerring View Drop Down
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:14
Originally posted by NetsNJFan NetsNJFan wrote:

I think we are being a bit hard on the record companies.  They have been so f**ked by Napster and its ilk they are desperate.  These companies are losing money, they have to do something.  You can't honestly expect a business to give in to illegal activity that is stealign its business and simply fold.  While their methods suck they have an EXTREME right to be pissed off, as they are.


 


 


You think we're being hard on record companies? Do you know what they're doing behind our backs? Read up on what Sony BMG are up to, and why there are half a dozen class action lawsuits against them right now, while more sordid details are coming out every day.

I have no problem with companies remodelling their business strategies when sales are declining (which they are not, in fact) but trying to introduce new laws to effectively criminalise legitimate customers is not acceptable; neither is surreptitiously installing dangerous spyware on people's computers WHETHER THEY ACCEPT THE LICENCE AGREEMENT OR NOT.

No, there is no excuse for their actions. They have crossed the line BIG TIME and I hope they crash and burn.

Edited by ElwoodHerring
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Points: 43 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:07

... welll... this forum smells of conspiracy and pandemonium to me... chill...

well it might not be that severe to me as I live at "the rear endo" of the world, if you know what I mean... though I am better off than others in here and in Africa (with all respects... and whatever happened with the Live Aid Project)... but into the subject, laws will surely not be passed here in Argentina...

but there's nothing to me done anyways...... people dont come into senses that easily... and I agree with the above comment on the capitalist point of view of the situation... so prepare for an even duller world...
Why are we never too sure till we die or have killed for an answer...
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:06
They're approaching it all wrong though, can they not embrace technological advances?
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Points: 1356 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:05
Most illegal file sharers only download tracks to sample an album before they buy. The music corporations were just looking for scapegoats for shoddy album sales, which was there fault in the first place.

Anyway, what does that have to do with tabs. You have to have bought the album/track in the first place before you can learn it using tabs.
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Points: 3047 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:01

I think we are being a bit hard on the record companies.  They have been so f**ked by Napster and its ilk they are desperate.  These companies are losing money, they have to do something.  You can't honestly expect a business to give in to illegal activity that is stealign its business and simply fold. 

While their methods suck they have an EXTREME right to be pissed off, as they are.

 

 
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StyLaZyn View Drop Down
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 10:28

Originally posted by ElwoodHerring ElwoodHerring wrote:

Don't be fooled into thinking this is a load of hot air. The MPA nd RIAA and all the other multifarious arms of the music industry are clamping down ever harder on their precious business model. They are pushing new laws through that severely restrict our rights as consumers. Look at the recent row about Sony using XCP and Mediamax copy protection software on CDs.It won't be long before merely whistling a "copyrighted" tune will be illegal!

THINK I'M JOKING???

READ the blogs on the Internet such as www.mp3newswire.net

KEEP UP with all the latest news from sites such as the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation)

EDUCATE YOURSELF to what is going on in the Music Industry as a whole regarding digital media.

The more you dig, the more you will be astonished and hopefully, outraged.

THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

I don't want to be a defeatist, but we as the consumers have no hope other than be pushed into illegal file trading, and as you point out, illegal lyrics sharing.  It's all about the money and when huge corporations start flexing their muscles, the consumers pay. 

Let's review something here, though.  One reason I buy CDs is to read lyrics as it's a pain to search the Net for them while I am listening to the music.  But I also love the artwork,musician comments, etc...albiet the very small print makes it a challenge.  If the purpose of the record companies is to encourage the purchase of their product, they need to create reasons for the consumer to buy.  If you are only able to read lyrics through the purchase of the CD, they can profit.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2005 at 10:25
Great post Elwood and it sums up the whole problem, thanks for that.  I shall certainly look at this subject more thoroughly from now on, thanks for letting us know.

Also, apology acception, I didn't make myself clear with that post, sorry about that.
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