Song lyrics to be banned!
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15622
Printed Date: December 23 2024 at 08:31
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Topic: Song lyrics to be banned!
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Subject: Song lyrics to be banned!
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 08:29
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The next thing for the record companies to clamp down on apparently, is publishing copyrighted song lyrics on web sites such as this one.
Read this and prepare to be infuriated! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4508158.stm Note this paragraph: Mr Keiser said he did not just want to shut websites and impose fines, saying if authorities can "throw in some jail time I think we'll be a little more effective". So theoretically I could face a jail term just for including my signature here (which is part of a song lyric by Gryphon.) ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Replies:
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 08:42
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Argh, he's talking out of his rear end, what an idiot! I understand the reasons for copyrighting lyrics, but it's not a huge crime. Besides, there are lyrics to songs about that I don't even know and half the albums I own don't include any lyric sheet in the album. Will they prosecute Peter Hammill for putting up his own lyrics on Sofasound? -------------   
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Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 08:50
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Don't be fooled into thinking this is a load of hot air. The MPA nd RIAA and all the other multifarious arms of the music industry are clamping down ever harder on their precious business model. They are pushing new laws through that severely restrict our rights as consumers. Look at the recent row about Sony using XCP and Mediamax copy protection software on CDs.It won't be long before merely whistling a "copyrighted" tune will be illegal!
THINK I'M JOKING??? READ the blogs on the Internet such as www.mp3newswire.net KEEP UP with all the latest news from sites such as the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) EDUCATE YOURSELF to what is going on in the Music Industry as a whole regarding digital media. The more you dig, the more you will be astonished and hopefully, outraged. 
THIS IS NOT A JOKE. ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 08:57
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Any French members on this board should read this article NOW. And where France is going the rest of the world is rapidly following:
http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/5002/france.htm ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 09:26
I object to being called an idiot just for trying to forewarn all the people on this site to the implications of all these new laws that are being passed - yes PASSED while you and me (well you anyway) are sitting on your arse listening to Close To the Edge for the millionth time. "Will they prosecute Peter Hammill?" - of course not. That just proves that you don't know what's going on and don't care. Sony BMG are trying to change the law in the U.S. so that when you buy a CD you NO LONGER OWN IT even though you have paid for it. You have "leased" it only, and you will be severely restricted in what you can do with the music you have "leased". If you break the terms of their "licence agreement" you will risk going to JAIL. Go ahead - laugh at me. Say I'm making it all up. But I'm not. Since Mark Russinovich exposed Sony's nefarious activities on October 31st (www.sysinternals.com) I have spent the last month trawling through all the online blogs and news items (the latter mostly from the BBC since they seem to be the only news service NOT in Sony's pocket) gathering evidence and finding out what exactly is going on the the Music World. And what I have found out is extremely worrying. This latest outrage about song lyrics is merely the icing on the cake. Your precious music is being STOLEN from right under your noses, and you don't care. The Music Industry is content to call all of its customers criminals and thieves and still you don't care. They install insecure poorly-written copy protection software on your PC without you knowing, (which also leaves you vulnerable to virus attacks) and you turn a blind eye. Well don't say I didn't warn you. ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Geck0 wrote:Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 09:48
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ElwoodHerring, I think Geck0 was referring to Mr Keiser being an idiot. I'm sick of the music industry talking out of their backsides: "Unauthorised use of lyrics and tablature deprives the songwriter of the ability to make a living, and is no different from stealing." What he means to say is that the music industry wants to squeaze every penny they can out of us. I'm sure the majority of artists are quite happy for fans to have access to tabs and lyrics, I doubt they make much money from issuing them seperately anyway. Yet again it's the greedy grasping corporations who are trying to make yet more money. F**K THE RIAA AND MPA!!! |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 09:54
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That Peter Hammill comment was tongue in cheek Elwood, I know they won't prosecute him. I never called you an idiot either and I never once thought you were. I'm concerned as much as you are. I admit I've not read up on it, but I shall be. Yes, I was referring to Mr. Lauren Keiser. Is there anyway we can stop them? -------------
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Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 09:58
| I doubt it. Unless a lot of artists start operating in the same way that bands like Marillion do. That would stick it up those greedy SOBs. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 10:07
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I can't even find lyrics for my beloved Keef Hartley Band online.
They do say they'll be only stop large sites, but are they telling the
truth? If I post lyrics on a forum, or in a blog, can they tell
me to remove them? I'm not a guitarist, but I do play harmonica,
does this affect me too? I really hate corporate idiocy like this, they just want to make more money. I don't think the current situation really makes any difference, are artists being deprived of money because websites are printing their lyrics? I doubt it very much. -------------
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 10:17
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I feel that's the way forward. Now that bands have their own mass distribution method available (i.e. the internet) they should go their own way and just post their music for download. This lyric thing is worrying . The next thing is we'll all be banned from singing songs in the shower without paying royalties. |
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 10:17
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I think Geck0 was referring to Mr Keiser being an idiot.
If this is the case then I apologise, but the fact remains that 99% of the music-loving public are totally unaware or uncaring about the fate of music that they love and the way they are gradually being shafted. I intend to shatter this apathy once and for all - our only weapon is to get the word out and boycott. I am a musician. I do not have a contract and quite frankly if I was offered one now I would tell them to screw themselves for a change instead of the honest artist and record-buying customer. I make my own CDs of my own compositions and sell them - often give them away even. Most of them come back with complaints like "I can't get this to play on my new CD player / DVD player / computer" etc. And why is that? DRM, that's why. All the modern players have DRM software installed that automatically rejects home-made CDs as "unplayable" when in fact there's nothing wrong with them. When buying a CD or DVD player people tend to buy expensive models because they think they're getting more for their money. And why shouldn't they think that? But the fact is they're getting LESS. Cheap CD players do not have DRM installed, so they will happily play any disc that is loaded into them. Very soon DRM will be installed in EVERY CD and DVD player manufactured, and there will be no-one left I can sell my CDs to. All thanks to Sony and DRM. Is that fair? I have broken no laws; the music I write and record is my property and the copyright is in my name. But of course THEY can't control mavericks like me in any other way. THEY can't make any money from me, so they effectively shut me down instead. And I'm not the only one in this position. So I am fighting back. I have had enough of the big companies stopping me doing what I should be able to do legally and without harassment. And I'm not just talking about my own music now - if I buy a CD then it should be MINE to do whatever I want with. I have paid for it, ergo it belongs to me. If I want to make a copy to listen to at work or on the train or just for a backup, then I should be able to do so. God knows, I have paid enough over the last 30 years of record buying to deserve that right. For example: In 1973 I bought a brand new LP of "Dark Side of the Moon" In 1978 I bought a new copy as I had worn out the old one (a Quadrophonic version this time) In 1984 I bought the picture disc version In 1986 I bought the CD version In 1994 I bought the Remastered version And this is just ONE album. Over the years I have spent tens of thousands of pounds on music, often simply replacing items with "new" versions. Very often I would buy an unknown album on spec, and spent £5 to £10 on something which ultimately I didn't like, but what the hell, it was all part of the game. Hands up everybody who has done that. But now the tables are turning, and the Record Companies have realised that they can't screw us over any more. So what are they doing? They are trying to change the law instead, making it illegal to make copies, download, make your own compilations, etc. etc. And so far they are succeeding, because of one thing that is vastly in their favour. APATHY. Apologies for the long post, but I think this message needs to get out. We need to do something before it's too late. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Find out what's going on, read the articles that are freely available on the Net. Educate yourselves. Do a Google search on these items for a start: XCP, Sony BMG, DRM, Russinovich, rootkit, Mediamax, Santangelo Start from there, and work your way in. I've spent over a month doing this, and I am FURIOUS. ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 10:25
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Great post Elwood and it sums up the whole problem, thanks for
that. I shall certainly look at this subject more thoroughly from
now on, thanks for letting us know. Also, apology acception, I didn't make myself clear with that post, sorry about that. -------------
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 10:28
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I don't want to be a defeatist, but we as the consumers have no hope other than be pushed into illegal file trading, and as you point out, illegal lyrics sharing. It's all about the money and when huge corporations start flexing their muscles, the consumers pay. Let's review something here, though. One reason I buy CDs is to read lyrics as it's a pain to search the Net for them while I am listening to the music. But I also love the artwork,musician comments, etc...albiet the very small print makes it a challenge. If the purpose of the record companies is to encourage the purchase of their product, they need to create reasons for the consumer to buy. If you are only able to read lyrics through the purchase of the CD, they can profit. ------------- 
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Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:01
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I think we are being a bit hard on the record companies. They have been so f**ked by Napster and its ilk they are desperate. These companies are losing money, they have to do something. You can't honestly expect a business to give in to illegal activity that is stealign its business and simply fold.
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Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:05
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Most illegal file sharers only download tracks to sample an album
before they buy. The music corporations were just looking for
scapegoats for shoddy album sales, which was there fault in the first
place. Anyway, what does that have to do with tabs. You have to have bought the album/track in the first place before you can learn it using tabs. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:06
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They're approaching it all wrong though, can they not embrace technological advances?
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Posted By: Vulkan
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:07
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... welll... this forum smells of conspiracy and pandemonium to me... chill... well it might not be that severe to me as I live at "the rear endo" of the world, if you know what I mean... though I am better off than others in here and in Africa (with all respects... and whatever happened with the Live Aid Project)... but into the subject, laws will surely not be passed here in Argentina... but there's nothing to me done anyways... ------------- Why are we never too sure till we die or have killed for an answer... ...Though names may change each face retains the mask it wore |
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:14
You think we're being hard on record companies? Do you know what they're doing behind our backs? Read up on what Sony BMG are up to, and why there are half a dozen class action lawsuits against them right now, while more sordid details are coming out every day. I have no problem with companies remodelling their business strategies when sales are declining (which they are not, in fact) but trying to introduce new laws to effectively criminalise legitimate customers is not acceptable; neither is surreptitiously installing dangerous spyware on people's computers WHETHER THEY ACCEPT THE LICENCE AGREEMENT OR NOT. No, there is no excuse for their actions. They have crossed the line BIG TIME and I hope they crash and burn. ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:41
Any of you play in a band that does covers? Better get the rights from the record companies before playing them.  -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:41
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Aye, the RIAA also. I just read about the Brianna LaHara case, that's just ridiculous sueing a 12 year old! I do the same as Forgotten Son, I download a couple of full tracks off an album and if I like them, I'll go out and buy the album (if it's available that is, unlike Anglagard albums, which are difficult to locate). I know not everyone does it that way though; people download whole albums. Somebody I know downloads albums before they're released, but they are still going out and buying the album officially. And Brianna's mother paid for iTunes too, so it wasn't p2p downloading either. Patricia Santangelo is having to defend herself and that's ridiculous too, she cannot really affort all those costs, but she's persuing it anyway and good on her. -------------
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Posted By: viperjr98
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 12:51
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The key to solving this problem is good old fashioned capitalism. Supply and demand. Don't buy CDs from record companies who show this "screw the little guy" attitude. Buy from small independent companies. Three great examples: I'm sure there's many many many more such companies. These labels support progressive bands by signing bands and musicians that may not be in the mainstream, but they know will have a loyal following. This website is one way to create a loyal following. Sharing files and lyrics is another way. These labels and bands understand that the more they get their name and product out there by ANY means, the better. And hey, let's face it, the labels and "musicians" that don't want their lyrics posted don't have much in the way of lyrics anyway. If my songs included such literary masterpieces as "hit me baby one more time" or "oops, I did it again" I would be embarassed to have my lyrics posted on a website too.
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Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 13:03
Careful - I would be embarrassed if I'd written "And rearrange your liver to the solid mental grace"! Or how about "Every day a little sadder, a little madder... someone get me a ladder!" 
... oops, I did it again (quoted some lyrics that is!) ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: Andrew Vernon
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 13:29
You do realise that the majority of people DO NOT in the slightest LOVE music, don't you? ------------- over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind. feed my will to feel this moment, urging me to cross the line. reaching out to embrace whatever may come. |
Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 13:50
Okay, I'll accept that, but it makes no difference to the argument. Especially when you take into account not just music CDs but also DVDs, in fact any recorded media including the equipment that is used to play it. DRM technology is also creeping into such things as digital cameras and computer equipment, and in the future even things like televisions, scanners, mobile phones, etc. etc. They are even trying to overturn the 1983 Betamax ruling to make it illegal to keep recordings of TV programmes without a license. Let me quote myself here; this is what I posted on Mark Russinovich's site a few days ago: "We are only now starting to see the downside of this marvellous new Digital Technology we are surrounding ourselves with. From big media companies to governments, from copy protected CDs to ID cards, "Digital" has one enormous implication that the public at large have not yet grasped; control. If we are not careful we will find ourselves in a few years' time totally controlled, watched and logged by the very digital technology we own; you will not be able to walk a step, say a word or spend a penny without it going onto a database somewhere for somebody else's profit, benefit or misuse. Digital = Controllable. We are all sleepwalking into Orwell's 1984, the only difference is that Big Brother now has computers." ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: Space Dimentia
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 14:01
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Wot a load of crap! How are we gonna find those ellusive song lyrics to our favourite songs, when we dont have a official cd and the official website dosen't have them! ------------- Prog is music for the mind Hear your Orphaned child! Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17 |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 14:13
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I agree Elwood, I covered Jeremy Bentham's Panopticon at University, as
well as Japanisation and McDonaldsisation. It is a huge worry
already, so just think of two or three years from now. I am very
worried about being controlled and watched by people who don't even
know me. My spending habits will be tracked (very useful on
Amazon mind), phonecalls I make, places I visit too; I won't have any
privacy. I'll be sat in my lounge listening to my favourite music
when I'll get a knock on the door and told not to sing along... (that
is an extreme example I know) As for music, I do not want my music listening experience to be affected. If I record some music myself and I own it and distribute it freely to friends, will I own the copyright? - I'm talking about in the future here. Also, will I be able to put my music on a p2p network to be freely distributed? I have a right to do what I want with my own music. If an artist doesn't mind file-sharing, but the publishers of that artist do mind, what rights does the artist have? It's already been an issue I believe, where a lyricist has had to buy back his own copyright. I do not know what us, as consumers can do to stop this though; any suggestions? -------------
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Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 14:41
That's what is starting to worry me too. The way the record companies are throwing their weight around you'd think they invented music, when in actual fact they wouldn't know a crotchet from a hatchet. Somebody else has just informed me that they are now trying to reduce the amount of royalty payments they pay to artists from 5p to 2.5p per downloaded track. I can't verify this, but if it's true it doesn't surprise me at all. The companies see (and treat) artists as cattle. Ultimately the arists will lose out (except for the Big Names of course) and the consumers will lose out. Eventually the record company bosses will also lose out as their house of cards comes crashing down around them. The only people that will win will be the lawyers. ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 14:51
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Argh, bad grammar and spelling there by me... I agree mate, as I said to someone else earlier..., most (I'd say all) music borrows, or is influenced by something that has gone before (the same applies in literature), so that means everyone can be sued for stealing each others riff, or something. If they want to be picky, won't don't they do it on a per note basis? Everyone would be screwed then. And as for royalty payments, that is bad too, I hope that statement isn't true (unless it applies to Robbie Williams, he doesn't need anymore money). Could copyright issues banish Internet radio too? A lot of Internet radios use MP3s, so that means what they are doing is illegal (to the eyes of the big corporate business'). -------------
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Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 15:01
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Here's your answer to the Internet Radio question.
http://www.webfroot.co.nz/?p=196 and http://news.com.com/Piracy+battle+begins+over+digital+radio/ 2100-1027_3-5236755.html (remove the space character in that link - it's added automatically when I post it) A simple Google search will bring up dozens of similar sites. This story is already over a year old! ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 15:09
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Cheers there Elwood, I guess I shouldn't have been so lazy. Much appreciated. Ah yes, Audiogalaxy, I used to actually find stuff on there I can't find anywhere else. -------------
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Posted By: ElwoodHerring
Date Posted: December 09 2005 at 15:28
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Here's a more interesting and up to date link:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20051109/1235223_F.shtml Even more interesting when you read the sub-links too. The Internet is awash with stuff like this; all it takes is a bit of clever searching with the right words and you're away! I've gathered an incredible amount of information over he last month or so; far too much to post here, but what I've learned has horrified me; and there seems no end to it. ------------- [IMG]http://www.herring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DRMkillb.JPG"> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4816930.stm - Right the Copyright Wrongs (Bill Thompson's BBC blog - essential reading!) |