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    Posted: 2 hours 42 minutes ago at 02:50
I thought Kansas 'Drastic Measures' was a bit of a stinker, but I'm sure there are worse just can't think of any at the moment. Confused
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Points: 2925 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2025 at 02:31
^ 'Works Vol. 2' was not an album as such.  'Love Beach' is much better and the post-modern irony of the cover seems to be lost on most people.  Where else can you hear Emerson play a Fender Rhodes?  

Anyway, on to another great keyboard player, Mike Ratledge (RIP).  Soft Machine Vol 2 was a contractual obligation but turned into a stunner and resulted in the relaunch of the band.  
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Points: 189 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirk782 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2025 at 23:21
Does Metal Machine Music even qualifies as music? It's err a giant heck you to both record company and whoever was unfortunate to listen to it.

I have yet to listen to ELP's Love Beach though till now, I found their "Works-Volume 2" as the low point.
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Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Love Beach is pretty bad following only 4 years on from Brain Salad Surgery. Terrible keyboard sounds and half baked half finished compositions. For You is a decent Lake/Sinfield song and that's pretty much as good as it gets. In The Hot Seat was a disaster with Emerson and Palmer both recovering from operations to their hands for carpal tunnel syndrome. Victory Music went under shortly after as the album bombed. ELP got back up and touring a few years later but never played a single track off that album at any point. That is telling as it gets. In fact as a combo they never played any track off Love Beach either although Carl Palmer did resurrect Canario for his own band.
While Love Beach has received excessive criticism over the years, it deserves reevaluation based on its musical composition, lyrical content, historical context, and evolution of the ELP sound. Fans should approach it open-mindedly, rather than dismissing the album only based on less engaging forum discussions lacking substantive arguments. They will certainly appreciate its unique contributions to ELP's body of work.

I'm sorry but it's a pile of pooh compared to their best albums. This is ELP, not some second rate nothing band. They were considered one of the best early seventies bands back in the day with possibly only Led Zep and Deep Purple being obviously bigger at least until 1972 or thereabouts. They revolutionised progressive/classical rock music and paved the way for Yes and pretty much all the Italian prog scene. It's a long way down from there. They did not want to make it and that's a fact. Atlantic records should have known better than to allow their legacy become so damaged. I hate it personally. It deserves no re-evaluation whatsoever but I am aware that Andy Edwards (and maybe others) have said it's not as bad as its reputation. Scott G Davis (the artist known as 'Myth Of Logic' and a massive ELP fan) has said it would not be a bad album if it was released by any other band. True perhaps but the main point is that it is ELP and not some other band. That's the only context it needs. IMO
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Michael Oldfield - Heaven's Open Thumbs Down

Hi,

I thought that AMAROK was one of these albums.
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Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Having read about The Single Factor: I consider myself a Camel fan and few hours ago Mirage was playingi in my car. Said so, I actually rated it with one star here on PA. I consider it a stinker with some nice passages and a lot of rubbish like You Are The One (Maybe this should have been the hit single?). I partially save Camelogue and Heroes, but the rest...
Many people consider The Single Factor a "bad album" solely due to its 80s style. It's nonsense, because the fact is that the musical quality of a musically superb band like Camel transcends stylistic trends; hence, their artistic merit should be evaluated on composition, musicianship, atmosphere, and emotional impact rather than the era it reflects.
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Having read about The Single Factor: I consider myself a Camel fan and few hours ago Mirage was playingi in my car. Said so, I actually rated it with one star here on PA. I consider it a stinker with some nice passages and a lot of rubbish like You Are The One (Maybe this should have been the hit single?). I partially save Camelogue and Heroes, but the rest...
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I’ve listened to it. The album cover is certainly very much like The Bee Gees. The music isn’t bad per se, but my understanding is that Keith Emerson was kind of left alone on the island to complete it and so it sounds more like his explorations rather than an ELP band album. I actually think it is sad when a band is left to slog it through final albums when the joy of creativity is waning and it is essentially a music business money grab. My understanding is that The Police had a terrible time completing Synchronicity. It’s a great album but many times these final contractual albums result in terrible experiences and burnt bridges for artists as the industry grinds on to get their pound of flesh. In many cases, you can just hear that something is off. The Camel story (good documentary on that) mentioned earlier is a good example. It was nice to see them get together much later on to do some blues songs and do some healing.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Love Beach is pretty bad following only 4 years on from Brain Salad Surgery. Terrible keyboard sounds and half baked half finished compositions. For You is a decent Lake/Sinfield song and that's pretty much as good as it gets. In The Hot Seat was a disaster with Emerson and Palmer both recovering from operations to their hands for carpal tunnel syndrome. Victory Music went under shortly after as the album bombed. ELP got back up and touring a few years later but never played a single track off that album at any point. That is telling as it gets. In fact as a combo they never played any track off Love Beach either although Carl Palmer did resurrect Canario for his own band.
While Love Beach has received excessive criticism over the years, it deserves reevaluation based on its musical composition, lyrical content, historical context, and evolution of the ELP sound. Fans should approach it open-mindedly, rather than dismissing the album only based on less engaging forum discussions lacking substantive arguments. They will certainly appreciate its unique contributions to ELP's body of work.
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Na Brzegu Światła by Budka Suflera can be considered as such. It was made with the sole intention of promoting the 1980 Olympic Games in USSR. The album's artistic and musical direction was under full control by the (state-funded) label.
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Points: 29438 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 16:27
Love Beach is pretty bad following only 4 years on from Brain Salad Surgery. Terrible keyboard sounds and half baked half finished compositions. For You is a decent Lake/Sinfield song and that's pretty much as good as it gets. In The Hot Seat was a disaster with Emerson and Palmer both recovering from operations to their hands for carpal tunnel syndrome. Victory Music went under shortly after as the album bombed. ELP got back up and touring a few years later but never played a single track off that album at any point. That is telling as it gets. In fact as a combo they never played any track off Love Beach either although Carl Palmer did resurrect Canario for his own band.
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^ aimed specifically at Richard Branson indeed.
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Wasn't Amarok kind of a F-you/middle finger to Mike's record company?
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Pink Floyd's "The Wall" was the last great album. But, carry on if you think it's "filler".
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Points: 2155 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2025 at 13:03
I knew someone was going to say Love Beach.

I think Triumph’s Surveillance was put together a bit piecemeal as they were headed for a split, but it has a couple of good songs on it and even a little dueling Steve Morse and Rik Emmett on guitars. Still not as solid as most prior albums (Allied Forces, Thunder Seven, Never Surrender, Just a Game, or Rock ‘n Roll Machine) but better than Sport of Kings and Progressions of Power … IMHO.
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FM - City of Fear was not a obligation lp. Sorry, I digressed there.

.......

ELP had contractual obligation lps???
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

The Sicilian Defence by Alan Parsons Project is another example.


Ok for a thematic Chess game sisiclian defense

1.e4 c5 (thematic answer leading to the Sicilian defense)
2. White to play
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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by Criswell Criswell wrote:

stinker
True prog connoisseurs' favorite old-timey word apparently.


There was a time that such albums would be labelled as turkeys, as stinkers of movies often are.
Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused?
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Michael Oldfield - Heaven's Open Thumbs Down

not great but title track is awesome, one of Oldfield's many fine pop songs 
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Originally posted by DoobieBrother6 DoobieBrother6 wrote:

Agree on "Love Beach".

This gets trashed and parroted about all the forums but its a fine lp.


Also:
FM City of Fear
Gentle Giant Civilian


Nothing the matter with these.

I actually really like City of Fear.  It's uneven but I love the dark, paranoid, claustrophobic feel to it, and the opening track "Krakow" gets into my bones.  I didn't know it was a contractual obligation album.  It's better than "Surveillance" to me


Edited by kenethlevine - February 06 2025 at 12:09
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