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goose View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 21 2005 at 05:19
Originally posted by hukt on fonikzz hukt on fonikzz wrote:


how can a band that uses the crazyiest time signatures, polyrythms, insane and complex guitar/drum/bass riffs and patterns, and a drummer whos influenced by a frigin electronic machine (aphex twin)...not be prog?
That'd make practically every tech metal and math rock band prog, excepting the last part.


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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 04:55
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Kohllapse Kohllapse wrote:

Oh and if were going to let DEP in ,Why not Psyopus ?

It doesn't work this way (If A is in, why not B). And that's a good thing. And it's not even sure if DEP are here to stay.

I wasnt saying that I wanted either of them to be here :)

 and your right Mike,I agree 



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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 04:43

Originally posted by Kohllapse Kohllapse wrote:

Oh and if were going to let DEP in ,Why not Psyopus ?

It doesn't work this way (If A is in, why not B). And that's a good thing. And it's not even sure if DEP are here to stay.
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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 04:34
Oh and if were going to let DEP in ,Why not Psyopus ?
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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 23:03
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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 17:40
 There are plenty of bands that in one persons "opinion" are progressive ,I find Sanctifica's album "Negative B" to be a masterpiece of progressive metal ,but it hasnt been added to the archives ,So apparently thats just my "opinion" :)

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Points: 1261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 16:44
I think DEP is acceptable.
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Points: 140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 16:04
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

The Dillinger Escape Plan is NOTTTTT Prog, I repeat NOTTT Prog. Death is more Progressive than the Dillinger Escape Plan.

care to explain yourself?
just because theirs no self-indulgent guitar solos or 30 minute long songs doesnt mean they arent prog
how can a band that uses the crazyiest time signatures, polyrythms, insane and complex guitar/drum/bass riffs and patterns, and a drummer whos influenced by a frigin electronic machine (aphex twin)...not be prog?
Just because they dont sound like your typical precious dream theater or yes or elp or watever y0ou cant say they dont belong here
there is no spoon...
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goose View Drop Down
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Points: 4097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:42
DEP are nothing to do with noisecore, it's just noisy... Noisecore uses noise, not just heavy distortion! For what it's worth, I think DEP are the most prog out of any hardcore band I've heard, but still not deserving of a place on here (OK, I've only heard the EP with Patton and ~ 5 or 6 other songs, but that's across the spread of their records), like their stuff as I do.
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Points: 189 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:19

Their second album has metalcorish songs but it has their trademark crazy songs.

 

I know they are considered mathematical metalcore...

I can't analyze their music to the level of bass plays in this time signature and guitars in this one but you can hear how complex, and even structured their music after all is.
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Points: 3830 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:09
It's kinda sad...  when DEP first hit, they were something fresh, but now that metalcore's made it big, their new album sounds very similar to many other now-emerging artists.  I miss their old sound. 
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Points: 16502 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:03

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Yeah, I was disappointed by Miss Machine.  It sounded too much like, well, metalcore. 

Well, they tour with masses of Metalcore bands before this next gig which I'll be seeing soon....

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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:03

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Yeah, I was disappointed by Miss Machine.  It sounded too much like, well, metalcore. 

I like it because it's less complex, but the more I listen to it, the more I wonder where their music is going ... they seem pretty undecided on what they want to be.
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Points: 3830 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:02
Yeah, I was disappointed by Miss Machine.  It sounded too much like, well, metalcore. 
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Points: 721 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:58
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

  • Miss Machine: 4/5 (this is their least complex album, it even contains some melodic parts.)

When I first saw the video for Unretrofied I had a hard time believing it was even DEP. Still good, but very different from most of their stuff. I was kind of disappointed at the lack of crazyness.
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Points: 721 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:57
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

As I've said earlier Progressive Rock is very vague, but there are distinctive sounds to it. Their first album is extremely brutal and a lot of time changes at the same time. It sounds like a combination of Post-Hardcore, Atheist, Cynic and Noisy Grindcore. Their new albums are very much mellowed up compared to that crazy album, you should hear it. It's really chaotic.


I'd probably like that a lot... I'll definitely have to check it out.
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:57
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

As I've said earlier Progressive Rock is very vague, but there are distinctive sounds to it. Their first album is extremely brutal and a lot of time changes at the same time. It sounds like a combination of Post-Hardcore, Atheist, Cynic and Noisy Grindcore. Their new albums are very much mellowed up compared to that crazy album, you should hear it. It's really chaotic.

I agree that complexity doesn't make something progressive. But it's also no reason for something not being progressive. There are some very simple albums in terms of rhythmical complexity which are undoubtedly progressive, and some utterly complex albums which are also accepted as being progressive.

BTW: I don't think that DEP are a particularly good band, IMO they are too complex. But that's just my personal opinion, I also consider Cynic to be too complex. this is how I would rate the DEP albums:

  • Calculating Infinity: 3.5/5
  • Irony is a Dead Scene: 2.5/5
  • Miss Machine: 4/5 (this is their least complex album, it even contains some melodic parts.)
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Points: 16502 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:52
Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

The Dillinger Escape Plan is NOTTTTT Prog, I repeat NOTTT Prog. Death is more Progressive than the Dillinger Escape Plan.

How are they not progressive? Please, elaborate.

How are they Progressive? Who cares about their "complex" time signatures and "wondering" style of music. How is Noisecore ever EVER considered Progressive? Then I guess Cult of Luna is also Progressive.


Their complex arrangements, ever-changing odd time signatures, and insane, schitzophrenic style are what make them progressive. DEP isn't noisecore; the fact that you call them that makes me wonder if you've even listened to more than a couple of their songs.

Definitely Noisecore. I've listened to the album Calculating Infinity and own it, I think its a quite good album, but NOT PROGRESSIVE. Time signatures do not make you Progressive, because then Classical, Jazz and some Metal would be then Progressive.


That's their first album, is it not? I'm not sure, I haven't heard it, so I can't really comment on it, but Irony Is A Dead Scene and Miss Machine are definitely not noisecore.

Moreover, if you want to talk about what's really progressive, then most of the bands here shouldn't be in the archives, because technically they're not doing anything new. However, bands like Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, TFK, POS, and so on all fit the criteria of what "prog rock" is, so they're here. DEP also fits that criteria, and as such, should be included on this site.

As I've said earlier Progressive Rock is very vague, but there are distinctive sounds to it. Their first album is extremely brutal and a lot of time changes at the same time. It sounds like a combination of Post-Hardcore, Atheist, Cynic and Noisy Grindcore. Their new albums are very much mellowed up compared to that crazy album, you should hear it. It's really chaotic.
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Ty1020 View Drop Down
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Points: 721 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:48
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by Ty1020 Ty1020 wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

The Dillinger Escape Plan is NOTTTTT Prog, I repeat NOTTT Prog. Death is more Progressive than the Dillinger Escape Plan.

How are they not progressive? Please, elaborate.

How are they Progressive? Who cares about their "complex" time signatures and "wondering" style of music. How is Noisecore ever EVER considered Progressive? Then I guess Cult of Luna is also Progressive.


Their complex arrangements, ever-changing odd time signatures, and insane, schitzophrenic style are what make them progressive. DEP isn't noisecore; the fact that you call them that makes me wonder if you've even listened to more than a couple of their songs.

Definitely Noisecore. I've listened to the album Calculating Infinity and own it, I think its a quite good album, but NOT PROGRESSIVE. Time signatures do not make you Progressive, because then Classical, Jazz and some Metal would be then Progressive.


That's their first album, is it not? I'm not sure, I haven't heard it, so I can't really comment on it, but Irony Is A Dead Scene and Miss Machine are definitely not noisecore.

Moreover, if you want to talk about what's really progressive, then most of the bands here shouldn't be in the archives, because technically they're not doing anything new. However, bands like Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, TFK, POS, and so on all fit the criteria of what "prog rock" is, so they're here. DEP also fits that criteria, and as such, should be included on this site.
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:42

I guess there are different ways to define "progressive" music. Why can't you simply tolerate these other definitions ... after all, strictly speaking no prog metal band is Prog Rock - ask philippe, he'd throw them all out of the archives. DEP's presence in the archives doesn't hurt anybody.
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