another non prog band slips thru
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10387
Printed Date: December 08 2024 at 00:30
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Topic: another non prog band slips thru
Posted By: frenchie
Subject: another non prog band slips thru
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 12:17
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perhaps mercury rev and dillinger shud go under evaluation. I cant see why anyone would thing MR are prog. dillinger however, i can kinda see it but Fantomas and mr bungle have always been the proggier works in my eyes. I am not so sure about these 2 latest editions. What does everyone else think? ------------- The Worthless Recluse 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 12:21
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DEP belong here, definitely. I don't know Mercury Rev.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: JrKASperov
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 12:27
I say baleete all the doubt cases(incluiding Marillion ).
------------- Epic. |
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 12:31
ahh you gotta keep marillion. neo prog may suck but they are good (well i hear the later years is a bit patchy), but they are too prog not to be here ------------- The Worthless Recluse
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JrKASperov wrote:Posted By: Violenza
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 12:55
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Although I like DEP, I'm a little unsure if they can be considered prog. They're really more representative of post-hardcore than prog. Don't know Mercury Rev though. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Violenza/?chartstyle=tree"> 
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Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:01
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heard some DEP, didn't really like it, but I can it's merits. No clue about Mercury Rev. |
Posted By: Wolf Spider
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:15
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I think that DEP should be here they are doing something completly new - just like Meshuggah did a couple years ago.
------------- http://www.lastfm.pl/user/tomash33 - Last.fm |
Posted By: riversdancing
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:31
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No problems with Dillinger, but it's more like a metalcore band. If DEP stay here, then Mastodon will be the next. By the way Babe Ruth was added twice. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:33
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Mastodon should probably be here - at least judging by the song I heard today on http://www.last.fm - www.last.fm radio. I'd have to hear a full album, they're quite promising ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:37
| The Dillinger Escape Plan is NOTTTTT Prog, I repeat NOTTT Prog. Death is more Progressive than the Dillinger Escape Plan. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:42
| No way Mercury Rev are prog. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:43
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No. No. No. No. No. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:44
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. By the way, both aren't Progressive. |
I like some of their music and will be forced to see DEP come 6 days, but still not Prog. 
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:48
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What do you think about Fantomas, Meshuggah, etc. ... are these prog? If so, then Dillinger are prog as well. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: suachili
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:57
| D.E.P IS a Prog band!!of course if prog means just coping the ideas of 70's bands ,then yes they are not;but if prog means exploring new aspects and generally new ways of expression in music ,then they are prog.And i do think that DEP do exactly that.They are not exactly metalcore;basically they play in a grindcore basis with many noise and even ambient parts.The riffing also is actually prog metal;it's like Psychotic Walts and Watchtower playing much much faster and if you watch their music more closely you can find also jazz elements played in a more ''morbid'' way.It's really great that bands like this one are in this site and i hope that the road will also open for bands like Neurosis,Convenrge,Candiria,Mastodon(even if i don't like them),Jesu,Sunn 0))),Pelican,Merzbow(why not) and more.... |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 13:59
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i'm gonna have to say it....if we want to keep adding all these debatably prog bands, then we might as well add the Flaming Lips. they play good music and are like a combination of bran eno and frank zappa, though a bit less vile. before we add mercury rev (let's not though), let's add the Lips, the band that made mercury rev possible. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:07
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None of those bands including Isis, Converge are even CLOSE TO PROG. Those are just either Doom Metal/Post-Hardcore bands in Isis' and Pelican's case and Converge's case they are Brutal Metalcore. If Metalcore is taking something to a new height, then yes you are right, but that does not make it progressive! Or every single new genre in music is Progressive, even Freakin' Emo! Fantomas and Meshuggah are definitely not Progressive. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:10
dude, emo is so prog. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:10
Sorry, you're biased against Avant-Prog ... at least it seems so. I'm biased against Krautrock - but that's no reason to want it removed from the archives. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Ty1020
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:23
How are they not progressive? Please, elaborate. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Ty1020/"> 
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:27
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How are they Progressive? Who cares about their "complex" time signatures and "wondering" style of music. How is Noisecore ever EVER considered Progressive? Then I guess Cult of Luna is also Progressive. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:34
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^ You can't generalize like that. DEP are not just a generic Noisecore band. Their music is not just chaotic ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Ty1020
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:35
Their complex arrangements, ever-changing odd time signatures, and insane, schitzophrenic style are what make them progressive. DEP isn't noisecore; the fact that you call them that makes me wonder if you've even listened to more than a couple of their songs. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Ty1020/">
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:39
Definitely Noisecore. I've listened to the album Calculating Infinity and own it, I think its a quite good album, but NOT PROGRESSIVE. Time signatures do not make you Progressive, because then Classical, Jazz and some Metal would be then Progressive. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:40
| Ok, i'll put it to you, they are not 100% noisecore, but that's the genre that their SOUND belongs in. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:42
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I guess there are different ways to define "progressive" music. Why can't you simply tolerate these other definitions ... after all, strictly speaking no prog metal band is Prog Rock - ask philippe, he'd throw them all out of the archives. DEP's presence in the archives doesn't hurt anybody. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Ty1020
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:48
That's their first album, is it not? I'm not sure, I haven't heard it, so I can't really comment on it, but Irony Is A Dead Scene and Miss Machine are definitely not noisecore. Moreover, if you want to talk about what's really progressive, then most of the bands here shouldn't be in the archives, because technically they're not doing anything new. However, bands like Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, TFK, POS, and so on all fit the criteria of what "prog rock" is, so they're here. DEP also fits that criteria, and as such, should be included on this site. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Ty1020/">
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:52
As I've said earlier Progressive Rock is very vague, but there are distinctive sounds to it. Their first album is extremely brutal and a lot of time changes at the same time. It sounds like a combination of Post-Hardcore, Atheist, Cynic and Noisy Grindcore. Their new albums are very much mellowed up compared to that crazy album, you should hear it. It's really chaotic. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:57
I agree that complexity doesn't make something progressive. But it's also no reason for something not being progressive. There are some very simple albums in terms of rhythmical complexity which are undoubtedly progressive, and some utterly complex albums which are also accepted as being progressive. BTW: I don't think that DEP are a particularly good band, IMO they are too complex. But that's just my personal opinion, I also consider Cynic to be too complex. this is how I would rate the DEP albums:
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Ty1020
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:57
I'd probably like that a lot... I'll definitely have to check it out. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Ty1020/">
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Posted By: Ty1020
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 14:58
When I first saw the video for Unretrofied I had a hard time believing it was even DEP. Still good, but very different from most of their stuff. I was kind of disappointed at the lack of crazyness. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Ty1020/">
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:02
Yeah, I was disappointed by Miss Machine. It sounded too much like, well, metalcore. 
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:03
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I like it because it's less complex, but the more I listen to it, the more I wonder where their music is going ... they seem pretty undecided on what they want to be. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:03
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Well, they tour with masses of Metalcore bands before this next gig which I'll be seeing soon.... |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:09
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It's kinda sad... when DEP first hit, they were something fresh,
but now that metalcore's made it big, their new album sounds very
similar to many other now-emerging artists. I miss their old
sound.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: vogre
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:19
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Their second album has metalcorish songs but it has their trademark crazy songs.
I know they are considered mathematical metalcore... I can't analyze their music to the level of bass plays in this time signature and guitars in this one but you can hear how complex, and even structured their music after all is. |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 15:42
| DEP are nothing to do with noisecore, it's just noisy... Noisecore uses noise, not just heavy distortion! For what it's worth, I think DEP are the most prog out of any hardcore band I've heard, but still not deserving of a place on here (OK, I've only heard the EP with Patton and ~ 5 or 6 other songs, but that's across the spread of their records), like their stuff as I do. |
Posted By: hukt on fonikzz
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 16:04
care to explain yourself? just because theirs no self-indulgent guitar solos or 30 minute long songs doesnt mean they arent prog how can a band that uses the crazyiest time signatures, polyrythms, insane and complex guitar/drum/bass riffs and patterns, and a drummer whos influenced by a frigin electronic machine (aphex twin)...not be prog? Just because they dont sound like your typical precious dream theater or yes or elp or watever y0ou cant say they dont belong here ------------- there is no spoon... |
Posted By: Hangedman
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 16:44
| I think DEP is acceptable. |
Posted By: Kohllapse
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 17:40
| There are plenty of bands that in one persons "opinion" are progressive ,I find Sanctifica's album "Negative B" to be a masterpiece of progressive metal ,but it hasnt been added to the archives ,So apparently thats just my "opinion" :) |
Posted By: Kohllapse
Date Posted: August 20 2005 at 23:03
[
http://www.sanctifica.com/"> |
Posted By: Kohllapse
Date Posted: August 21 2005 at 04:34
| Oh and if were going to let DEP in ,Why not Psyopus ? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 21 2005 at 04:43
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It doesn't work this way (If A is in, why not B). And that's a good thing. And it's not even sure if DEP are here to stay. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Kohllapse
Date Posted: August 21 2005 at 04:55
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: August 21 2005 at 05:19
That'd make practically every tech metal and math rock band prog, excepting the last part.
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