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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
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Points: 4807
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Topic: Why Entangled? Posted: June 16 2015 at 13:25 |
Its ending gloriously segues into Squonk.
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20622
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Posted: June 15 2015 at 15:27 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Just curious.....but am I the only older guy over 60 who thinks this is an ok song but nothing that special...?
While I think both TOTT and WAW are good albums imho they are missing that 'something' that Gabriel brought to the mix with all the others.
I have relistened to TOTT and Entangled and while it's a nice track I simply don't see it as groundbreaking in any way.
Maybe I'm just too old and too stuck on the Gabriel years.
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Get back on your meds, gramps, you're starting to warp again.
As a 55 year old, I found Trick of the Tail's "new sound" far more interesting than the older Genesis stuff (where albums like Lamb and Selling England had long, boring and garbled sequences like Epping Forest and the 2nd half of Lamb that just weren't very interesting musically or lyrically). I liked Genesis far better on TotT and WaW and I preferred Gabriel's solo material far better than his Genesis stuff back in the 70s.
I'll take Moribund the Burgermeister over Slippermen any day, and Squonk over Wardrobe. |
As always it's a matter of taste since I find the newer Genesis stuff some what boring and uninspired with no real edge to it.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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WrytXander
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 09 2014
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 237
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Posted: June 15 2015 at 14:39 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
As a 55 year old, I found Trick of the Tail's "new sound" far more interesting than the older Genesis stuff (where albums like Lamb and Selling England had long, boring and garbled sequences like Epping Forest and the 2nd half of Lamb that just weren't very interesting musically or lyrically). I liked Genesis far better on TotT and WaW and I preferred Gabriel's solo material far better than his Genesis stuff back in the 70s. I'll take Moribund the Burgermeister over Slippermen any day, and Squonk over Wardrobe. |
DON'T YOU EVER DISS SELLING ENGLAND OR LAMB DISC 2 IN FRONT OF ME!
Sorry, but Slippermen, Riding the Scree and Epping Forest are works of genius!
Maybe it's because I like these types of songs that I don't like Entangled as much as you
But yeah, Squonk over Wardrobe definitely
Edited by WrytXander - June 15 2015 at 14:39
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20+ prog bands discovered and explored in 3 years, still going strong...
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 13020
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Posted: June 14 2015 at 20:25 |
dr wu23 wrote:
Just curious.....but am I the only older guy over 60 who thinks this is an ok song but nothing that special...?While I think both TOTT and WAW are good albums imho they are missing that 'something' that Gabriel brought to the mix with all the others. I have relistened to TOTT and Entangled and while it's a nice track I simply don't see it as groundbreaking in any way. Maybe I'm just too old and too stuck on the Gabriel years. |
Get back on your meds, gramps, you're starting to warp again. As a 55 year old, I found Trick of the Tail's "new sound" far more interesting than the older Genesis stuff (where albums like Lamb and Selling England had long, boring and garbled sequences like Epping Forest and the 2nd half of Lamb that just weren't very interesting musically or lyrically). I liked Genesis far better on TotT and WaW and I preferred Gabriel's solo material far better than his Genesis stuff back in the 70s. I'll take Moribund the Burgermeister over Slippermen any day, and Squonk over Wardrobe.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20622
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Posted: June 14 2015 at 18:54 |
Just curious.....but am I the only older guy over 60 who thinks this is an ok song but nothing that special...? While I think both TOTT and WAW are good albums imho they are missing that 'something' that Gabriel brought to the mix with all the others. I have relistened to TOTT and Entangled and while it's a nice track I simply don't see it as groundbreaking in any way. Maybe I'm just too old and too stuck on the Gabriel years.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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raeloneq
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 26 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 47
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Posted: June 14 2015 at 17:12 |
Because of goosebumps, thats why!
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Rando
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Bay Area
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Points: 472
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Posted: June 13 2015 at 22:42 |
WrytXander wrote:
Okay.
I love Entangled.
But can someone explain to me why everyone seems to worship it with such a passion?
I don't see how it's any more special than Ripples or Mad Mad Moon, so please somebody help me out
I'm not a hater or anything, it's just I don't see the way a lot of people seem to do, some preferring it over even Watcher of the Skies. What's the huge appeal that I'm missing? What secret formula, and what other songs employ this formula to make themselves more appealing? |
I assume most of us in this forum are aware that with the release of Trick Of The Tail, Genesis had finally proven their point, (and themselves); that they weren't just Peter Gabriel's back-up band - After The Lamb, Gabriel's departure, and all the internal pressures that had been built up to that point, TOTT was like a release valve, a breath of fresh air, that produced an incredible collection of some of the band's best music. "Entangled" was one of the gems within that new collection. It's simply a beautiful song and it show-cased the band's genius ability to their softer, lyrical folk-like side. I also think that part of the song's great appeal is due to the fact that it harkened back to Trespass & Nursery Cryme, but this time with Hackett written all over it, ending with Banks' beautiful and haunting Arp & mellotron solo. There's always Watcher Of The Skies when I want to listen to Genesis' harder & and aggressive genius. The best of both worlds.
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- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7849
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Posted: June 13 2015 at 21:40 |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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AreYouHuman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2013
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 470
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Posted: June 13 2015 at 20:16 |
Two lines from "Animal House": Bluto Blutarsky: *burp* Why not?? Kent Dorfman: Oh, boy, is this great!!
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Caption: We tend to take ourselves a little too seriously.
Silly human race! Yes is for everybody!
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4085
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Posted: June 13 2015 at 12:27 |
fuxi wrote:
If it's any comfort to you: I agree that "Entangled" is a great track (although I still don't know what it pretends to be about, even after 40 years!) but my favourite song on TRICK has always been "Mad Man Moon", Tony Banksier than which it's impossible to get.
In spite of its rather dodgy lyrics, MMM features the most heavenly melody our Tony ever came up with. It is lushly orchestrated and sensitively sung by Phil Collins - perhaps his greatest ever vocal performance.
The only thing I regret about MMM is that egocentric Tony did not allow Steve H. a majestic, "Lamia"-style guitar solo in the middle! |
Wow--you read my mind. Agree 100%
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PrognosticMind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1195
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Posted: June 13 2015 at 10:02 |
kenethlevine wrote:
close your eyes, empty your mind, and listen to the last 2 minutes and you will know why |
This.
Dat outro.
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"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2459
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Posted: June 13 2015 at 09:01 |
If it's any comfort to you: I agree that "Entangled" is a great track (although I still don't know what it pretends to be about, even after 40 years!) but my favourite song on TRICK has always been "Mad Man Moon", Tony Banksier than which it's impossible to get.
In spite of its rather dodgy lyrics, MMM features the most heavenly melody our Tony ever came up with. It is lushly orchestrated and sensitively sung by Phil Collins - perhaps his greatest ever vocal performance.
The only thing I regret about MMM is that egocentric Tony did not allow Steve H. a majestic, "Lamia"-style guitar solo in the middle!
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: June 12 2015 at 18:18 |
fudgenuts64 wrote:
Mellotron and ARP 2600 outro... |
Definitely the Mellotron. Probably the singular best use of the "cathedral choir" setting on the Mellotron that I have ever heard. Gives me goosebumps everytime I hear it. And - yes - the ARP 2600 synth as well...
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BrufordFreak
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8170
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Posted: June 12 2015 at 16:00 |
"otherworldly..." "Hackett..." "Banks..." "Mellotron & Arp combo/duet..." intriguing title... the amazing two minute outdo is followed by those two chords of Squonk... the 12-strings... "Hackett's pauses..." "acoustic-electric combined to perfection..." Collins delicate vocal . . . and, of course, Rutherford's bass pedals.
I have never liked "Watcher in the Skies"--the organ makes me cringe--so that element of the OP's question is, to me, moot.
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Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: June 12 2015 at 06:25 |
kenethlevine wrote:
close your eyes, empty your mind, and listen to the last 2 minutes and you will know why |
Imagine that these two minutes of Entangled are prolonged something, say at three minutes, without Collins singing and that it's nicely bridged to Watcher of the Skies intro, just as one track it might be a really great instrumental one, isn't?
Edited by Svetonio - June 12 2015 at 06:34
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SquonkHunter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 22 2013
Location: Texas, by God!
Status: Offline
Points: 334
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Posted: June 11 2015 at 22:03 |
Why Entangled? Before, Genesis was a band I had heard very little of and thought they were "alright' but no more. Entangled changed that. Upon hearing it for the first time, I was swept away. The ethereal, almost other-worldly quality of the music gripped me tightly and the long outro with the soaring, quivering notes made a chill run down my spine. From that point forward I became a Genesis fan and my appreciation of their music has only grown over the ensuing years. In short, Entangled is everything that Genesis did well rolled into one masterpiece of a song. Looking back on it now, it should have come as no surprise that the entire Trick of the Tail album was so good. They had just lost their highly visible frontman and everything was on the line for them. This album had to succeed or they likely would not have been able to continue as a viable group. And succeed they did beyond anyone's wildest dream.
Edited by SquonkHunter - June 11 2015 at 22:11
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"You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..."
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: June 11 2015 at 09:54 |
HackettFan wrote:
WrytXander wrote:
I love Entangled.
But can someone explain to me why everyone seems to worship it with such a passion?
I don't see how it's any more special than Ripples or Mad Mad Moon, so please somebody help me out
I'm not a hater or anything, it's just I don't see the way a lot of people seem to do, some preferring it over even Watcher of the Skies. What's the huge appeal that I'm missing? What secret formula, and what other songs employ this formula to make themselves more appealing? |
Mainly it's Hackett's guitar for me, but it's got everything Genesis in a relatively short time span, and has a character that results from the combination of brilliant writing skills from two who were to increasingly not to see eye to eye. A lot of what prog fans like converges on it in a way that it fails to converge on other TTOT tracks, nice as they are. It's soft madrigal Genesis and mystical big sound Genesis. I've often been mystified by the appeal of Watcher of the Skies that the OP made reference to. It's intro, though a big grandiose sound, never struck me as very sci-fi sounding. I would have been pleased if the intro to it were more otherworldly like the Entangled outtro. I like the lyric. Someone prior did not, and, to carry on the contrast, I would agree with anyone who might say that the Watcher of the Skies lyric is more digestible and poignant as read on paper. However, the lyrics in Watcher seem forced into the music. In Entangled the lyrics really seem to belong. |
Well said and I agree with more or less everything you said, save the lyrics and then only because I haven't really gone deeply into the lyrics. Entangled captures the quintessence of Genesis but in a very drawn out, unhurried way which wasn't there even in the Gabriel era.
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
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Points: 4085
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Posted: June 11 2015 at 08:50 |
Dean wrote:
Aside from the previously mentioned keys duet, this is one of the most "Hackett" tracks Genesis ever recorded, if not the most. |
Agree---and it could have been just the beginning of two of the greatest melodic prog composers ever---Hackett and Banks---a collaboration that should have continued but alas did not. I do love everything about the song and it's a great album---
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: June 11 2015 at 03:56 |
Interesting! I'd never noticed until now that the only three tracks on Trick of the Tail which I regard as truly exceptional (Entangled, Los Endos and Dance on a Volcano) were the only three co-written by Hackett.
And then I check Wind and Wuthering and it's broadly the same picture.
And once he left, I really don't like much of what they did, whilst much of his solo work shines for me (although a few tracks really don't work).
As for Entangled's appeal, it's beautiful, a bit other worldly and the outro is splendid.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: June 11 2015 at 02:47 |
WrytXander wrote:
I love Entangled...
I don't see how it's any more special than Ripples or Mad Mad Moon...
some preferring it over even Watcher of the Skies...
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For me all those songs are quite good, not preferring any over the other, or only just a bit.
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