Why Entangled?
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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=102811
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Topic: Why Entangled?
Posted By: WrytXander
Subject: Why Entangled?
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 07:10
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Okay. I love Entangled. But can someone explain to me why everyone seems to worship it with such a passion? I don't see how it's any more special than Ripples or Mad Mad Moon, so please somebody help me out  I'm not a hater or anything, it's just I don't see the way a lot of people seem to do, some preferring it over even Watcher of the Skies. What's the huge appeal that I'm missing? What secret formula, and what other songs employ this formula to make themselves more appealing? ------------- 20+ prog bands discovered and explored in 3 years, still going strong... |
Replies:
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 07:13
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Mellotron and ARP 2600 outro. An incredible high point artistically - beating out the rest of the album for me. ------------- 
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 07:16
Mellotron and ARP outro.......  WHAT A FRIGGIN' CRESCENDO.............. The blissful 'song' part is plain gorgeous. A Trick Of The Tail - one of the best Prog albums of all time !! |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 07:22
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Exactly Tom. It's the duet between these two electronic critters, and ultimately that beautiful crescendo, that really takes this song from a lovely little tune and metamorphoses it into a towering phoenix of sound. I always always get goosebumps during this section. Never fails. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 07:30
This. And the wonderful harmonies in the chorus. Ripples is also great. |
Guldbamsen wrote:Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 08:42
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You said it David. I can´t say it better. Goosebumps every time... ------------- http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - Metal Music Archives https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: Roland113
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 08:45
As others have said, the outro is sublime. From a historical standpoint it's a milestone song, love it or hate it, many people look at Entangled as the first 'Neo Prog' song. So many bands afterwards copied that style, there are several Marillion albums not to mention a lot of Sylvan's discography that can be traced back to this song. It was really different from anything else that was going on at that moment in time. ------------- -------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob------- I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 09:04
| My guess is "personal taste'. There are some pieces that most people seem to like a lot, and others don't have a clue as to why, such is the world we live in. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 09:06
Right on Jonas. There are those rare tunes that just get you each and every time you put them on. Entangled is one of those for me. Others include Floyd's Echoes from Live at Pompeii, The Savage Rose 'Ballad of Gale' and Amon Düül ll's 'Jalousie' off the Vive la Trance album. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 09:07
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 10:17
Just my opinion.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 10:33
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Yeah, it's all been said I guess, but the melding of the acoustic and the electronic and the incredible atmosphere evoked by that outro makes it a classic Genesis piece. Apart from the lyrics, which I personally think are awful...  Sorry, not a shared view I'm sure. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 10:33
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...oh and the bass synth is also amazing. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 10:46
| close your eyes, empty your mind, and listen to the last 2 minutes and you will know why |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 10:47
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Aside from the previously mentioned keys duet, this is one of the most "Hackett" tracks Genesis ever recorded, if not the most. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 11:04
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Oh yes the Hackett fingerprint is all over this one. The acoustic twinklings of his are essential to the track, and they really do shine during the duet. I love the small pauses he makes. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 12:49
This. And just the sheer beautiful ambiance of the piece. It takes me places. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 13:27
| Someone mentioned the bass synth - indeed, mustn't forget Mike R's thunderous Taurus pedals. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 13:55
Yup....This song has always been one of my favorite tracks by Genesis. -------------   
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 14:23
Mainly it's Hackett's guitar for me, but it's got everything Genesis in a relatively short time span, and has a character that results from the combination of brilliant writing skills from two who were to increasingly not to see eye to eye. A lot of what prog fans like converges on it in a way that it fails to converge on other TTOT tracks, nice as they are. It's soft madrigal Genesis and mystical big sound Genesis. I've often been mystified by the appeal of Watcher of the Skies that the OP made reference to. It's intro, though a big grandiose sound, never struck me as very sci-fi sounding. I would have been pleased if the intro to it were more otherworldly like the Entangled outtro. I like the lyric. Someone prior did not, and, to carry on the contrast, I would agree with anyone who might say that the Watcher of the Skies lyric is more digestible and poignant as read on paper. However, the lyrics in Watcher seem forced into the music. In Entangled the lyrics really seem to belong. |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 15:00
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I think because it's giving you all a taste of Baroque harpsichord, lute, mandolin, and guitar music, but it's doing it in a slowed down manner, which is entrancing....also using very sophisticated engineering techniques....I bet these progressions can be traced back somewhat to Rameau, Couperin, or Scarlatti. ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 18:22
| The whole album is perfect. Including Entangled. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 10 2015 at 22:18
I think I like the song just about as much as you. Really great and beautiful song, but Genesis has many other songs that I like much better (from the classic period, from the two albums without Gabriel but with Hackett, and from the trio pop albums. However, I do like it more than Watcher of the Skies, but that's not because of how much I like Entangled, but rather because I don't really like Watcher so much... that one I don't understand why it's so beloved around here (or perhaps I do kind of understand). Now, if I were to choose between Entangled and the Hackett live version of Watcher on Tokyo Tapes... there I would have a harder time. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 11 2015 at 02:47
For me all those songs are quite good, not preferring any over the other, or only just a bit.
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: June 11 2015 at 03:56
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Interesting! I'd never noticed until now that the only three tracks on Trick of the Tail which I regard as truly exceptional (Entangled, Los Endos and Dance on a Volcano) were the only three co-written by Hackett. And then I check Wind and Wuthering and it's broadly the same picture. And once he left, I really don't like much of what they did, whilst much of his solo work shines for me (although a few tracks really don't work). As for Entangled's appeal, it's beautiful, a bit other worldly and the outro is splendid. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: June 11 2015 at 08:50
Agree---and it could have been just the beginning of two of the greatest melodic prog composers ever---Hackett and Banks---a collaboration that should have continued but alas did not. I do love everything about the song and it's a great album---
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 11 2015 at 09:54
Well said and I agree with more or less everything you said, save the lyrics and then only because I haven't really gone deeply into the lyrics. Entangled captures the quintessence of Genesis but in a very drawn out, unhurried way which wasn't there even in the Gabriel era.
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Posted By: SquonkHunter
Date Posted: June 11 2015 at 22:03
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Why Entangled? Before, Genesis was a band I had heard very little of and thought they were "alright' but no more. Entangled changed that. Upon hearing it for the first time, I was swept away. The ethereal, almost other-worldly quality of the music gripped me tightly and the long outro with the soaring, quivering notes made a chill run down my spine. From that point forward I became a Genesis fan and my appreciation of their music has only grown over the ensuing years. In short, Entangled is everything that Genesis did well rolled into one masterpiece of a song. Looking back on it now, it should have come as no surprise that the entire Trick of the Tail album was so good. They had just lost their highly visible frontman and everything was on the line for them. This album had to succeed or they likely would not have been able to continue as a viable group. And succeed they did beyond anyone's wildest dream.  ------------- "You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..." |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 12 2015 at 06:25
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: June 12 2015 at 16:00
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"otherworldly..." "Hackett..." "Banks..." "Mellotron & Arp combo/duet..." intriguing title... the amazing two minute outdo is followed by those two chords of Squonk... the 12-strings... "Hackett's pauses..." "acoustic-electric combined to perfection..." Collins delicate vocal . . . and, of course, Rutherford's bass pedals. I have never liked "Watcher in the Skies"--the organ makes me cringe--so that element of the OP's question is, to me, moot. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: June 12 2015 at 18:18
Definitely the Mellotron. Probably the singular best use of the "cathedral choir" setting on the Mellotron that I have ever heard. Gives me goosebumps everytime I hear it. And - yes - the ARP 2600 synth as well... |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: June 13 2015 at 09:01
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If it's any comfort to you: I agree that "Entangled" is a great track (although I still don't know what it pretends to be about, even after 40 years!) but my favourite song on TRICK has always been "Mad Man Moon", Tony Banksier than which it's impossible to get. In spite of its rather dodgy lyrics, MMM features the most heavenly melody our Tony ever came up with. It is lushly orchestrated and sensitively sung by Phil Collins - perhaps his greatest ever vocal performance. The only thing I regret about MMM is that egocentric Tony did not allow Steve H. a majestic, "Lamia"-style guitar solo in the middle! |
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: June 13 2015 at 10:02
This. Dat outro. ------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?" |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: June 13 2015 at 12:27
Wow--you read my mind. Agree 100%
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Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: June 13 2015 at 20:16
Two lines from "Animal House":  Bluto Blutarsky: *burp* Why not?? Kent Dorfman: Oh, boy, is this great!! ------------- Caption: We tend to take ourselves a little too seriously. Silly human race! Yes is for everybody! |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: June 13 2015 at 21:40
Way to go Tom. Ya took the words right out if my mouth. Nothing more can be said on this matter.  ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: June 13 2015 at 22:42
I assume most of us in this forum are aware that with the release of Trick Of The Tail, Genesis had finally proven their point, (and themselves); that they weren't just Peter Gabriel's back-up band - After The Lamb, Gabriel's departure, and all the internal pressures that had been built up to that point, TOTT was like a release valve, a breath of fresh air, that produced an incredible collection of some of the band's best music. "Entangled" was one of the gems within that new collection. It's simply a beautiful song and it show-cased the band's genius ability to their softer, lyrical folk-like side. I also think that part of the song's great appeal is due to the fact that it harkened back to Trespass & Nursery Cryme, but this time with Hackett written all over it, ending with Banks' beautiful and haunting Arp & mellotron solo. There's always Watcher Of The Skies when I want to listen to Genesis' harder & and aggressive genius. The best of both worlds.  ------------- - Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats - |
Posted By: raeloneq
Date Posted: June 14 2015 at 17:12
| Because of goosebumps, thats why! |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 14 2015 at 18:54
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Just curious.....but am I the only older guy over 60 who thinks this is an ok song but nothing that special...? While I think both TOTT and WAW are good albums imho they are missing that 'something' that Gabriel brought to the mix with all the others. I have relistened to TOTT and Entangled and while it's a nice track I simply don't see it as groundbreaking in any way. Maybe I'm just too old and too stuck on the Gabriel years.  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 14 2015 at 20:25
Get back on your meds, gramps, you're starting to warp again.  As a 55 year old, I found Trick of the Tail's "new sound" far more interesting than the older Genesis stuff (where albums like Lamb and Selling England had long, boring and garbled sequences like Epping Forest and the 2nd half of Lamb that just weren't very interesting musically or lyrically). I liked Genesis far better on TotT and WaW and I preferred Gabriel's solo material far better than his Genesis stuff back in the 70s. I'll take Moribund the Burgermeister over Slippermen any day, and Squonk over Wardrobe. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: WrytXander
Date Posted: June 15 2015 at 14:39
DON'T YOU EVER DISS SELLING ENGLAND OR LAMB DISC 2 IN FRONT OF ME! Sorry, but Slippermen, Riding the Scree and Epping Forest are works of genius! Maybe it's because I like these types of songs that I don't like Entangled as much as you  But yeah, Squonk over Wardrobe definitely
------------- 20+ prog bands discovered and explored in 3 years, still going strong... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 15 2015 at 15:27
As always it's a matter of taste since I find the newer Genesis stuff some what boring and uninspired with no real edge to it.
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: June 16 2015 at 13:25
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Its ending gloriously segues into Squonk. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |