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Topic ClosedModern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden
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Poll Question: pick the winner of the 2015 PA's modern album tournament
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
41 [44.57%]
51 [55.43%]
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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Points: 13055 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 19:12
Hybris and Eden are the best "prog modern albums"? Gnats on the shoulder of Godzilla.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 17:47
Originally posted by t d wombat t d wombat wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;


Er Confused
Nope, still not getting it.


You really need to try harder. LOL

A one time Prime Minister of Australia somewhat famously remarked during a press conference that he was "not the suppository of all wisdom". I suspect him and Svetonio would get along extremely well. At least in Svetonio's defence English is apparently not his first language.

 


I have to add that to my collection of bloopersLOL! This one would make Mrs Malaprop proud. Even better than "the pineapple of politeness" or "a nice derangement of epitaphs".
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t d wombat View Drop Down
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Points: 504 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 17:41
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;


Er Confused
Nope, still not getting it.


You really need to try harder. LOL

A one time Prime Minister of Australia somewhat famously remarked during a press conference that he was "not the suppository of all wisdom". I suspect him and Svetonio would get along extremely well. At least in Svetonio's defence English is apparently not his first language.

 
Andrew B

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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 11:14
Talk Talk by a long, long way.
My Music
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 10:55
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;


Er Confused
Nope, still not getting it.


Edited by chopper - September 29 2015 at 10:56
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Points: 2169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 08:53
I prefer Hybris, because it rocks more than Spirit of Eden.
Just a matter of taste.
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Points: 20847 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 07:18
Man I love this nonsense, its so matter of factly stated as if it wasn't just an opinion.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 07:13
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

the most noticeable difference between prog and art rock is the manner of singing
 


In what way?
Art-Rock's the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner; of course, not rock as the term for all rock genres but Rock as a subgenre of rock music, today often called 'Classic Rock'.
Spirit of Eden is not prog but experimental art-rock album from 80s, basically same as Quadrophenia is experimental art-rock from 70s by 'Classic Rock' band The Who, or, even better, like Townshend's solo output. The best songs from Townshend's Empty Glass (1980) the album as e.g. And I Moved, and All the Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes the album released in 1982 as the masterpiece of 80s art-rock, were influences on Hollis' singing at Spirit of Eden. Well, it seems that the J.D. Considine, as an journalist of Rollingstone mag, loved the real Talk Talk what was "normal" for RS journalist in 80s, but nevermind in which way, he was mentioned that influence in his review of Spirit of Eden.
 
Quote In the 1992 Rolling Stone Album Guide, J.D. Considine rated the album 1 star out of 5: "Instead of getting better or worse, this band simply grew more pretentious with each passing year. . . . by Spirit of Eden, Mark Hollis's Pete Townshend-on-Dramamine vocals have been pushed aside by the band's pointless noodling.
from wiki
 
An album with those 80s Townshend like vox, i.e. Rock vox, can not be a prog album whatever much it is ambiental / jazzy / experimental. It will always be Art-Rock.
 


Edited by Svetonio - September 30 2015 at 01:06
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 06:22
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

the most noticeable difference between prog and art rock is the manner of singing
 


In what way?
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 06:19
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

So, cheers for the winner album sung in the native language of such a great prog rock band Änglagård Beer
 

the "winner album" is losing at the moment.
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 06:17
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

So, cheers for the winner album sung in the native language of such a great prog rock band Änglagård Beer
 

Hmm, the "winner album" is losing at the moment.
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Points: 305 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 06:08
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

in a knock-out tournament final you don't get to vote on an album that has already been knocked out. Sorry, but life's like that.


I'm well aware of that, just wanted to express my personal view on that final.
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Points: 305 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 05:58
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Skalla-Grim Skalla-Grim wrote:

Doesn't matter because I can't vote for Koenjihyakkei. No vote
in a knock-out tournament final you don't get to vote on an album that has already been knocked out. Sorry, but life's like that.


I'm well aware of that and I'm not arguing against it. Still it doesn't matter for me who wins. Both are good in their own way.
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Points: 11621 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 04:26
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


In the first sentence of that only one review, Marc wrote this:
 
Quote "Talk Talk turn full Prog in this album. (...)
 
This is the crucial evidence that "Marc" has no idea about Prog Rock.
Marc The Reviewer actually thinks that every exprerimental and ambiental album is - prog.
My guess is that "Marc" simply uses the term Prog in an other way than you do - meaning Talk Talk went (full) progressive with Spirit of Eden. Post Rock, Art Rock... bands such as Radiohead, Tortoise etc... fit in at PA as its all modern Progressive Rock while Prog usually means something more specific, based on an approach developed in the late 60's-early 70's. But I'm not going to claim that someone has no clue based on using those terms a little different than I do.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 04:12
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

(...)

2) This is how the other major prog database - aka ProgGnosis - categorizes Talk Talk: http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_Detail.aspx?AID=3681 Perhaps those who object to the Crossover Prog subgenre will find "Prog Pop" more to their taste. Moreover, to debunk the myth that PA is the only place where Spirit of Eden is labeled as prog, here's what the ProgGnosis review says: http://www.proggnosis.com/Release_Detail.aspx?RID=9980


I think that everybody should see what "the other major prog database" ProgGnosis' only one review of Spirit of Eden actually says, but bolded, 'cause many guys and gals never clicked at the links as some don't have enough time for surfing, some are too lazy to do it and some doesn't care about this matter at all.
 
In the first sentence of that only one review, Marc wrote this:
 
Quote "Talk Talk turn full Prog in this album. (...)
 
This is the crucial evidence that "Marc" has no idea about Prog Rock.
Marc The Reviewer actually thinks that every experimental and ambiental album is - prog. And therefore it is futile to any further discussion whether Marc knows what is art rock, although the most noticeable difference between prog and art rock is the manner of singing (e.g. due to the manner of singing, The Beatles' A Day In The Life  is art rock song, not prog, although the song is quite experimental).
But, to catch up on the huge ignorance as "Marc's review at the other major prog database" really is, and to use that for writing a revised history of our beloved genre, that is something very bad.
 
 
 


Edited by Svetonio - September 29 2015 at 05:02
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 01:24
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

The term 'retro-prog' could be used as a description only, and only for the albums by the bands who insisted on vintage instruments like 70s analog synths, full analog recording process and so on.

Why retro?

Why a musical genre has to last 2, 3 or 15 years?

Symphonic started with The Nice (IMHO) and lasts until today.

Probably retro could be used in genres created to be an ephemeral fashion and died after a period of time like Disco, but Prog was created to last, and Symphonic of today is as valid as Symphonic from the 70's.

Anglagard played the same Symphonic as Genesis or King Crimson's debut, they are retro nothing, Symphonic never died.
I agreed 100% that symphonic prog is a living genre, so that symphonic, and related genres which were existed in 70s, like space rock or jazz-rock, can not be called 'retro' anyway.


Edited by Svetonio - September 29 2015 at 01:26
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 01:14
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

The term 'retro-prog' could be used as a description only, and only for the albums by the bands who insisted on vintage instruments like 70s analog synths, full analog recording process and so on.

Why retro?

Why a musical genre has to last 2, 3 or 15 years?

Symphonic started with The Nice (IMHO) and lasts until today.

Probably retro could be used in genres created to be an ephemeral fashion and died after a period of time like Disco, but Prog was created to last, and Symphonic of today is as valid as Symphonic from the 70's.

Anglagard played the same Symphonic as Genesis or King Crimson's debut, they are retro nothing, Symphonic never died.
            
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 01:04
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Talk Talk is not even Prog.

BTW: Retro Prog is a silly tag, it's only Symphonic Prog, a genre that still lives today.

There's retro Pop because Pop tends to have a short lapse of life, but Prog is made to last, so something recorded 20 years after the genre started is not retro.

It's like calling Classical Era as retro Baroque.

Hybris is PURE PROG.
The term 'retro-prog' could be used as a description only, and only for the albums by the bands who insisted on vintage instruments like 70s analog synths, full analog recording process and so on.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2015 at 00:50
Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Hybris is a winner no matter the final results. 

Can someone imagine an album not sung in English reaching the finals? Beer
Exactly. Hybris is already the winner regarding prog albums which were at the polls of 'modern' albums as it was defined by the poster himself.
As Spirit of Eden is not a prog album but an art-rock/ambiental effort made by well know 80s British New Wave makers of sh*t synth pop hits what were the anthithesis of prog rock at the time, Hybris is the winner!
So, cheers for the winner album sung in the native language of such a great prog rock band Änglagård Beer
 
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Points: 114 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2015 at 22:02

Änglagård, Hybris.
Master James of St. George.
Of the fields and the sky.
He used to build castles of stone, steel, and blood.
But lines get broken down.
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