UK election televised debate!

harmonium.ro wrote: Wasn't the last time Tories came to power a time of great recession, and they stayed in power for 18 years?

Only some of their time was in the recession.  However, they caused most of it.  It was also at the time of the Filofax era when people were just spending money on crap and had bad taste in clothing.

In this current situation, the whole world is suffering, so it's not directly Labour's fault.

One more thing.

You're voting for a party as well as a leader.  Remember that.  If Labour were to regain the government (which they won't), the chances are Brown would be replaced within a year.

He'll likely be gone in a Hung Parliament too, I should think.

And the best point made (I forget who by) was that who ever gets in, will be making political suicide due to the economic crisis.

So in a way, the Tories getting in would be a good thing, 'cause they'd be gone again soon enough.

toroddfuglesteg wrote: It never fails to shock me how much those working class parties (stalinists, leninist, socialists or social-democratics) really detest working class people. I think Gordon Brown proved me right yesterday. Me too was a social democrat until yesterday and a Labour voter if I had managed to sort out my nationality this year. But not any longer.    Mrs. Duffy, the lady slurred and back-stabbed by Gordon Brown, have now been forced to leave her home because of this incident. And that is the tragedy here. She did not deserve this.

Silly.

Just silly.

The press forced her out of her home, not Gordon Brown.  Yes I know he made a faux-pas and had to apologise but the press are like leaches.  The poor lady probably just wanted to go home and have a sandwich and yet all the press did (and this was before Bigotgate) was hound her.  I would have really wanted to tell them where to go.

Then obviously someone leaked the fact he said something when the mic was still on.  Who was this?  Did they have the right to do so?

Then of course, the sh*t hit the fan and poor Gordon didn't know about it until sometime after (I'm not sure if he heard before The Jeremy Vine Show but presume he had been told by his advisers).  Then he had to go and apologise, firstly by 'phone and then by an actual visit (which maybe wasn't actually necessary).

It was a media farce and far too much was made of it all.

I am not saying what he said was right.  It wasn't.   He was quite annoyed though and in the heat of the moment, he said what he said.  We have all done it.  However, she did come across as quite annoying (even though I'm sure she's a very sincere and lovely lady) and was asking all sorts of questions.  She wasn't fully listening to everything he was saying either and kept interjecting with more questions.  She kept trying to walk away too.  Yet people kept following her.

If I had been Gordon Brown when she asked where those Eastern Europeans were coming from, I'd have quipped "Eastern Europe".  However, I guess he couldn't really say that.

I feel more sorry for Gillian Duffy, who has now been hounded by the press unnecessarily.  I hope she gets peace and quiet again soon.


Edited by James - April 29 2010 at 19:37

Trouserpress wrote:  "all these Eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?"

I laughed at that comment too.

Erm... are they coming from Eastern Europe perchance?

It never fails to shock me how much those working class parties (stalinists, leninist, socialists or social-democratics) really detest working class people. I think Gordon Brown proved me right yesterday.

Me too was a social democrat until yesterday and a Labour voter if I had managed to sort out my nationality this year. But not any longer.   

Mrs. Duffy, the lady slurred and back-stabbed by Gordon Brown, have now been forced to leave her home because of this incident. And that is the tragedy here. She did not deserve this.   

Edited by toroddfuglesteg - April 29 2010 at 12:31

Blacksword wrote: Anyway, the lady in question was not so much a bigot, just someone who had a concern - however ill informed it may be - about immigration levels, but lacked the skills to articulate this concern in a way that didn't make her sound like a BNP supporter. Many people have this problem. However, I do get the feeling that in the eyes of NuLab, a 'bigot' is basically someone who disagrees with them.

I think the incident shows the fundamental disconnect between Nu Lab and their traditional working class support (I say this as a lifelong Labour voter). Anyone mentioning their concerns about a touchy subject such as immigration is likely to be branded a BNP member. Nu Lab is largely made up of Guardian reading middle class types who have no real empathy with large swathes of their support, a lack of empathy that borders on - and as Brown's gaffe shows often tips over into - contempt.

Sadly their failure of moral courage to address these issues has led to some of that traditional support moving in desperation to UKIP, or even worse, the BNP.

I remember when a Labour MP punched an egg thrower in North Wales. 

Edited by PROGMAN - April 29 2010 at 08:12

harmonium.ro wrote: ^ You mean it wasn't a politician who said those words? In that case I am sorry for my assumption...

No, it was the woman the prime minister was speaking to who said that. He later called her a bigot, when he thought his mic was switched off. The media got hold of that and we've been laughing our arses off ever since.

Trouserpress wrote:  "all these Eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?"

South America?..maybe it was a trick question...

Anyway, the lady in question was not so much a bigot, just someone who had a concern - however ill informed it may be - about immigration levels, but lacked the skills to articulate this concern in a way that didn't make her sound like a BNP supporter. Many people have this problem.

However, I do get the feeling that in the eyes of NuLab, a 'bigot' is basically someone who disagrees with them.

I am an immigrant here and even I feel insulted by these foot-in-mouth comments from Gordon Brown. It was an insult towards this lady which has done nothing wrong, except from speaking her mind. I feel sorry for her because she did not deserve this slurr.

So much about Gordon Brown wanting to speak to normal people. After this; does normal people want to speak to him ? I wouldn't.