UK election televised debate!
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Topic: UK election televised debate!
Posted By: Blacksword
Subject: UK election televised debate!
Date Posted: April 16 2010 at 08:13
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Anyone else watch this? I thought Mr Clegg won the debate (as did those polled at the time) Shame his party will never be allowed to win an election in this country.
Apparently there's been some 'fall out' from Cameron citing China as areason why we should keep Trident. I knew there would be! Clearly not the worlds best diplomat. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Replies:
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 19 2010 at 14:02
Clegg wiped the floor with the pair of them, and it has clearly thrown the election wide open. We might even avoid the Tories!!
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 06:12
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^^^ I do hope so. This close to an election the parties start throwing sh!t at each other. The Libs tend to refrain from doing this, certainly not to such an extent.
I think we're heading for a hung parliament. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 06:47
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28 years earlier:
------------- What? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 09:31
US politics is the big gorilla in the room. So how are things going for you Brits? Are you getting enough rotten campaign ads yet? We refined types over here have made it an art form of sorts.  Last time I checked you guys actually had spirited substantive debates. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 13:36
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What is this Big Elephant in the Room though? Clegg one the first one. The second debate was pretty close. Clegg still did well. Brown improved a lot and personally (and I'm being unbiased as I hate the Tories) Cameron was lacklustre. He did better in the first debate. I do like some of what the Lib Dems are proposing. Scrapping Trident is great. However, I'm anti-Europe. Oh and did anyone hear Menzies Campbell on Radio 4's Any Questions? Wow. There was a question about censorship and he was completely anti it ('twas about the South Park thing and the Prophet Mohammed). That got him a lot of support. So are they just saying anything now to get support or does Ming the Merciless really have those views? -------------   
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 13:46
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I'd rather not speak of the big elephant.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 13:54
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Oh and what people seem to forget is when they vote, they also vote for their own constituency. Swindon South happens to have a decent MP in my opinion (and yes, she is Labour). The seat is a marginal though and it could become a Conservative one. Therefore, as much as I may prefer to vote Lib Dem or Green Party, it would do the Constituency no good and it would practically give the Tories another vote (as general consensus says they'll get the majority of the votes). So I have to pretty much vote Labour as I don't want the Tories getting in here as they'd ruin the town, just as the local Tory councils are doing. -------------
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 15:33
I'm pretty sure he was speaking his own mind there, as it's hardly a make-or-break manifesto type of issue, is it? Besides, I don't see why it should be surprising that a former leader of a (comparatively) progressive political party should be vehemently pro-freedom of speech. I'd be far more surprised if he wasn't, tbh! ETA - It was a crazy audience, wasn't it? Any Questions is usually a pretty subdued affair, but that crowd were cheering and booing all over the place. Most of the boos were aimed at the Tory speaker, unsurprisingly. |
James wrote:Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 15:43
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Well of course. Caroline Spelman (I think that's who she was) is rather terrible. She usually says all sorts of rubbish. Oh I am quite sure Menzies was speaking truthfully but it did make me chuckle. Also, his comments about going down the pub beforehand made me chuckle as well. The fact it was in a school though, made me wonder whether he said those things knowing he'd provoke a positive reaction from the audience? Getting on the side of the younger audience is always a good thing. Oh and yes, the crowd were marvellous! It's good to hear, in my opinion. As it happens, I agree with what he said. I just wasn't expecting him to say it. Nick Clegg, yes. Campbell, no. I don't think Chris Huhne or Vince Cable would either though. I was in a car with three under 25s the other day and all three said they hated the Tories and would likely vote Lib Dem. That cheered me up no end! -------------
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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 16:04
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I'm seriously contemplating a vote for the lib dems this time round. Our constituency is a real Tory stronghold, but it looks like the Lib Dems could have a real chance if enough people switch allegiance - Labour have no chance but Clegg's mob could just squeeze through (any other residents of Bishops Stortford thinking similarly?) ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 16:10
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I think you're the only one from Bishop's Stortford on here, Chris. Of course, Jim's not all that far away though in Stevenage! If it was a Conservative seat with a chance of the Lib Dems getting in, then I'd probably vote Lib Dem in that situation. This is why First-past-the-post is silly. I'm a (mostly) socialist yet Labour don't fit my needs (which they should be we have New Labour...) and Lib Dems certainly don't but they fit my needs more than Labour do... it's annoying! The Greens are probably closest to my views but the problem they have is they have both left and right wing members, 'cause their mandate is mostly green issues and both left and right wingers care for green issues. It's looking like a Hung Parliament is inevitable though. I think most people except the actual parties, have accepted that now. Hopefully, if there is a coalition between parties, the Tories will be seen in their true colours and will get knocked back down again. -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 16:15
| Two questions: what is a hung Parliament? and why would be the tories bad? I've seen only general consent that they'd be bad. Mind you, I'm not wanting to start a debate, I'm just asking out of curiosity. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 16:26
Hmmm, maybe. 2005 Result
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 16:28
This is the problem South Swindon have:2005 Result
It's looking seriously like we could lose this to the Tories. Having said that, I'm actually living in North Swindon constituency now but they have the same issue: 2005 Result
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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 16:31
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[QUOTE=harmonium.ro]Two questions: what is a hung Parliament? and why would be the tories bad? I've seen only general consent that they'd be bad. Mind you, I'm not wanting to start a debate, I'm just asking out of curiosity. [/
A hung Parliament is one where no one party has an overall majority of MP's. There is no general consent that the Tories are bad, At the moment far from it I think. (Its just a matter of fact  ) Never trust a Tory  ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 16:36
Oh come on, they have Con as part of their name.  Actually, I'd disagree. I think they're bad now too. Not as bad as the Thatcher years but still bad. They always will be. Otherwise they wouldn't be right wing and wouldn't be the Conservatives. -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 16:56
I am referring to PA and the opinions from PA, like
Everyone says it's a fact and no one gives examples. Why would they be bad? |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 17:00
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Chris and/or Dean are best to explain, as they're much better at that type of thing than me. Plus they lived through the whole of Thatchers reign. I lived through all of it (except a year of it) but I am too young to fully appreciate her devastation and therefore explain it. Of course, it runs further than that though. Just think of a UK equivalent of George Bush. -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 17:12
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Where I come from the Right is considered better than the Left "as a fact", but this because of the former communist regimes (the Left is really compromised back there). I now know things are of course much more nuanced and no policy is good or bad per se. Again where I come from Thatcher, Reagan and Kohl are regarded as great leaders so mentioning them works in a contrary way. RE Bush, he was OK for me, except that he didn't seem very bright (but I don't judge politicians on that) and his only major problem I can think of was the war in Iraq (not the war itself, I am a fan of throwing dictators out of business, but of its opportunity in that context). So can anyone enlighten me? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 17:44
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I apologize for my ignorance of UK politics, but could someone briefly sum up the different platforms of the parties? I have a feeling that you don't mean words like "Conservative," "Liberal" and "Labour" in the same way we do acros the pond.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 18:28
All our political parties would be considered "Right" in Romania since none of them are truly socialist, however none of the the three main parties are strictly right-wing either.
I won't comment on Thatcher - the mere mention of her name makes my flesh crawl.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 18:45
The Labour Party would definitely not be thought as a Right-oriented party in Eastern Europe. We do perceive the Centre-Left (Social Democracy), the Left (Socialism) and the extreme Left(s) all as Left. The shift towards (neo?)liberalism of many parties of the Left in Western Europe was indeed felt in the East too, but still we were educated to be partisans of the "true" Right |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 18:49
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Indeed, Dean. I don't wish death on many people but she is one of them.
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 22:34
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Margaret Thatcher is one of my political heroes, but since I didn't live in the UK while she was in office, I suppose it's not my place to contradict your death-wishing.
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 02:57
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today the Russian Pressident Medvedev is in Norway on a State visit, that means i will sit in the coatch (sofa) and watch the news which fallows the event much like when Obama was in Norway. and yes I have seen glimpses of the british Election debate (which is the first to be sent on television in Britain), it seem like Gordon Brown dosent manage live debates so well as the other two, he do not look comfortable on debate, he looks nervous. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 03:26
I know what you mean Chris - Stevenage is a pretty safe Labour seat (despite Barbara Follett's part in the expenses debacle last year) & although I don't think the LD's have any real chance of election, if there was to be a hung parliament, it may just go more smoothly if it were Con/LibDem rather than Con/Lab (at least until the second general election which would probably follow within a year  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 03:51
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.........sorry if you vote for 3 dimwits you deserve what you get...........seek out a bigger picture folks. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 04:39
Is this mere trolling or are you actually trying to make a point here? A lot of people in this country don't want the choice to be between "3 dimwits" as you put it, but our f**ked up electoral system leaves us with little choice. How is it the british public's fault that we have an inherently flawed system which benefits the two major (both centre-right) parties to the exclusion of everyone else? Oh, and as for a "bigger picture", what would that be, exactly? |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 06:05
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3 dimwits? I thought I voted for a political party, not an individual.
'Seek out a Bigger Picture' - the fall back position of the conspiracy theorist without the cogent argument in support -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 09:57
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Precisely. People forget it's a party we're voting for, rather than just an individual. Labour do still have excellent politicians too. Like Steve Pound (who I have met and was a friend of my late grandfather). -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 10:33
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I've always been of the opinion that you should vote for the local candidate who would be best suited to represent your views and will do the best for your local constituency in that big house up there in that there London place. More often that not that will mean voting for the candidate that also just happens to be a member of the party you prefer, but not always.
This is probably why I'll never understand why people vote for a candidate who has never actually lived in the area - our current Tory candidate comes from Cheshire and stood for Stretford in Manchester in the 2005 election (and lost), whereas his two opponents are local people. he will "win" because it's a nice safe rural seat. Pah! Politricks - I hates it. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 12:49
The " Bigger Picture"..........High Finance i.e Blair's/Labour's foray into Iraq for example. Was it oil or was it a terrorist they were after? ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Lizzy
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 14:47
We only started to think in terms of left and right only in the past few years, but still, if you ask people on the street about ideologies, then doctrines and then policies they look at you like WTF(lute). They associate left and right with parties because of the discourse of the party elites, not policies. Reminds me of the inter-war period where policies were taken regardless of their left or right specific and regardless of the party in power. I'm still amazed that some people, in this case lots of British, decide who to vote for based on policies. When will I see that happening over here?  ------------- Property of Queen Productions... 
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 15:03
I'm in Wales now, but I did see Bishops Stortford win the Amateur Cup in 1974 (last ever of that competition) - I used to live in Harlow, so it was quite close.  I would ALWAYS encourage tactical voting to keep the Tories out. My constituency is a three way marginal between Labour (present incumbant), Tories, and Plaid. As a member of Plaid I will be voting for them, but there are a lot of areas where tactical voting is the only option. Best thing about this election is that we might, at last, get PR as a result of the Clegg/LibDem love ion - so that EVERY vote will count, no matter where you live. There is a huge progressive majority in the UK, and never again should the Tory regressives hold power with an iron grip with a minority of the votes (and I include New Labour in that). ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 16:58
Thank you for clarifying that, though now you seem to be implying anyone who votes for any of the three main parties in this election is somehow oblivious to the questionable nature of the Iraq war; an implication which I vehemently disagree with. The Lib Dems consistently opposed the war before, during and after the invasion, so their record is clean on that issue. A vote for the Lib Dems does not show ANY ignorance of "the bigger picture", as you put it. Re: Green party. Yes, there is a Green Party candidate standing in my constituency but under FPTP a vote for him would sadly be utterly wasted. http://www.voterpower.org.uk/plymouth-sutton-devonport - Here 's the stats on my constituency. A vote for the Greens would be completely ineffectual in this area. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 02:21
This is an argument I've had with myself many times - do you vote for a candidate/party just to keep the other candidate/party out even though you may not necessarily agree with the policies, or do you vote for a candidate/party where you do agree with the policies but have to acknowledge they have no chance of being elected?
Although Barbara Follett was involved in the expenses shenanigans last year, I have to grudgingly admit she's not done too bad a job so far as Stevenage is concerned; having said that, she has now stepped down in favour of a newbie, Sharon Taylor... so (to return to my previous post) do I vote for Labour as they've done as well as could be expected since 1997, or LibDem as I think they'd form a better coalition with the Cons??? -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 05:22
Exactly. This is why FPTP is such a blinkin' useless system. A vote for Lib Dems could actually be quite significant in the long-term, as a hung parliament could lead us towards serious electoral reform. If we switched to a system where everyone's vote was equal then at last the public could vote on policies alone and tactical voting would be a thing of the past. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 09:02
This is very interesting: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/18/clegg-media-elite-murdoch-lib-dem - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/18/clegg-media-elite-murdoch-lib-dem
I don't agree with that. The public space was much more ideologically vibrant in the 90s, when the society was very divided by traumatic experiences of government (and lack of it), of heritage, etc. It was necessary for one to define him/herself ideologically. Are you with the Right, the historical parties, the monarchy, the right to own private property, the free society etc. and again dictatorship, or are with the (ex)communists, the old regime, the "social silence" way of thinking, the etatist government, etc? Now it's all down to much more practical policies... and I think it's better that way. The old kind of debates were just smoke curtains made to divert people for caring about actual, practical reform. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 10:19
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What is needed in the UK is DAMAGE CONTROL. I think the Queen should take over. Look, here in Canada William Shatner ( Captain Kirk ) is the favourite for the next post as Governor General.
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 23:30
 ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 07:53
D'oh!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm">Always make sure you've removed your microphone... -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 12:55
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^^^ Pure gold. Just saw that on the news. That turkey is well and truly stuffed.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 13:35
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Fool Worth at least 4% in the polls to the other parties.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 13:38
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So he misunderstood her, and he didn't mean what he said. Aye, right! Which is it to be? He misunderstood, and that's why he responded the way he did. Or, he understood, but didn't mean what he said. Can't be both. I would have had more respect for him if he admitted that he regretted what he said because of the furore that this has caused.
He seems to be joined at the hip with his wife... then the first time she's not there he screws up.
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 13:52
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"all these Eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?" |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 13:58
| ^ Yes, he should have stood by what he said rather than apologise. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 14:10
But that would have been political suicide for Labour. Whilst some of us would have preferred to see a politician stand by their words (especially if they are totally justified, as in this case), many more would happily buy into the faux-outrage the media were instantly whipping up the second the story broke. Damage limitation was Labour's only option. I just hope this silly mistake doesn't dominate tomorrow's debate. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 14:19
I guess you Brit guys don't like guests 
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Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 14:29
I'm not sure I understand this message... but I don't like the implication.
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 14:35
| ^ Same for me |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 14:39
| Well, what does your message mean? I don't follow your meaning... but it seems to suggest some xenophobia. I might be completely wrong though. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 14:47
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I didn't think of xenophobia. It's just that I don't like people who benefit from a deal and then don't want to honour their own part of the deal. I would like to hear that politicians [who dislikes the number of Eastern European coming in] opposing to the free and uninhibited distribution of Western products and services on the Eastern market [an underdeveloped market with a lot of potential clients but with uncompetitive local industry], too.Otherwise, it's unfair. |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 14:57
Ok, that's not what I thought you meant. Thanks for clearing up my confusion. 
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Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 16:12
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I am an immigrant here and even I feel insulted by these foot-in-mouth comments from Gordon Brown. It was an insult towards this lady which has done nothing wrong, except from speaking her mind. I feel sorry for her because she did not deserve this slurr. So much about Gordon Brown wanting to speak to normal people. After this; does normal people want to speak to him ? I wouldn't.
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 16:17
^Maybe I would if I were normal  .------------- 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 17:15
South America?..maybe it was a trick question...
Anyway, the lady in question was not so much a bigot, just someone who had a concern - however ill informed it may be - about immigration levels, but lacked the skills to articulate this concern in a way that didn't make her sound like a BNP supporter. Many people have this problem. However, I do get the feeling that in the eyes of NuLab, a 'bigot' is basically someone who disagrees with them. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 06:50
| ^ You mean it wasn't a politician who said those words? In that case I am sorry for my assumption... |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 06:59
No, it was the woman the prime minister was speaking to who said that. He later called her a bigot, when he thought his mic was switched off. The media got hold of that and we've been laughing our arses off ever since. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 08:03
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My seat Carmarthen East and Dinefwr is apparently a safe Plaid Cymru seat, even though Labour also heavily campaign here, Labour have had it in the past, so anything could happen, the Plaid Cymru MP is stepping down to study in America and return to UK polictics soon I also think Clegg did well. ------------- CYMRU AM BYTH 
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Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 08:11
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I remember when a Labour MP punched an egg thrower in North Wales.
------------- CYMRU AM BYTH
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Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 08:55
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The same politician who wrote in the blog that the woman in Rochdale was a part of a Robert Murdoch conspiracy against the Labour party. Well, he must be living inside a cuckoo clock then. A disgrace, it is. |
Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 09:29
I think the incident shows the fundamental disconnect between Nu Lab and their traditional working class support (I say this as a lifelong Labour voter). Anyone mentioning their concerns about a touchy subject such as immigration is likely to be branded a BNP member. Nu Lab is largely made up of Guardian reading middle class types who have no real empathy with large swathes of their support, a lack of empathy that borders on - and as Brown's gaffe shows often tips over into - contempt. Sadly their failure of moral courage to address these issues has led to some of that traditional support moving in desperation to UKIP, or even worse, the BNP. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 12:21
Wasn't it John Prescott who claimed 'we're all middle class now' What a d!ck. There will always be a working class. There needs to be, and there is no shame in belonging to that demographic. The contribution to society made by the 'working class' is as important as anyone else who works. Of course many people fell for it, because they were allowed to borrow obscene amounts of money they never really had any chance of paying back. They may have felt 'middle class' at the height of the Blair years, but many are back to square one now. Still, as long as they can afford a Sky dish, what else matters..? ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 12:28
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It never fails to shock me how much those working class parties (stalinists, leninist, socialists or social-democratics) really detest working class people. I think Gordon Brown proved me right yesterday. Me too was a social democrat until yesterday and a Labour voter if I had managed to sort out my nationality this year. But not any longer. Mrs. Duffy, the lady slurred and back-stabbed by Gordon Brown, have now been forced to leave her home because of this incident. And that is the tragedy here. She did not deserve this. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 12:53
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I know very little about UK politics, but watching the coverage of the Brown gaffe it is amazing how similar it is to US "gotcha" politics. A relatively innocent, if poorly worded, concern about immigration gets one immediately labeled a bigot. Just like the US. Any concern or simple expectation of respect for our existing laws is enough to be accused a "racist" in the US. It's another of the big lies perpetuated about middle-class America, and now it seems, the UK has a similar weakness for knee-jerk smearing. Make no mistake....anyone who falsely and so easily labels their fellow citizens as racist/bigoted, etc, because they simply express a concern about their country, it's laws, and it's policy, may themselves be the hatemongers IMO. Apparently too many people out there are willing to be labeled racist for questioning these policies....I will not be....for like this lady in the Brown situation, I am NOT a racist. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:18
I laughed at that comment too. Erm... are they coming from Eastern Europe perchance? -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:22
What else matters to them? Nike Trainers Season Ticket to their local football club Money to buy The Sun/The Mirror -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:30
Silly. Just silly. The press forced her out of her home, not Gordon Brown. Yes I know he made a faux-pas and had to apologise but the press are like leaches. The poor lady probably just wanted to go home and have a sandwich and yet all the press did (and this was before Bigotgate) was hound her. I would have really wanted to tell them where to go. Then obviously someone leaked the fact he said something when the mic was still on. Who was this? Did they have the right to do so? Then of course, the sh*t hit the fan and poor Gordon didn't know about it until sometime after (I'm not sure if he heard before The Jeremy Vine Show but presume he had been told by his advisers). Then he had to go and apologise, firstly by 'phone and then by an actual visit (which maybe wasn't actually necessary). It was a media farce and far too much was made of it all. I am not saying what he said was right. It wasn't. He was quite annoyed though and in the heat of the moment, he said what he said. We have all done it. However, she did come across as quite annoying (even though I'm sure she's a very sincere and lovely lady) and was asking all sorts of questions. She wasn't fully listening to everything he was saying either and kept interjecting with more questions. She kept trying to walk away too. Yet people kept following her. If I had been Gordon Brown when she asked where those Eastern Europeans were coming from, I'd have quipped "Eastern Europe". However, I guess he couldn't really say that. I feel more sorry for Gillian Duffy, who has now been hounded by the press unnecessarily. I hope she gets peace and quiet again soon. -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:33
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Besides, she's "some sort of bigot", which isn't strictly a proper bigot. And I must clarify, she's not a bigot. And there really is no conspiracy against the Working Class. Don't be daft! The Tories don't like them but Labour (yes, even New Labour who aren't true to Socialism) have far more empathy than the silly Tory Toffs. -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:41
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One more thing. You're voting for a party as well as a leader. Remember that. If Labour were to regain the government (which they won't), the chances are Brown would be replaced within a year. He'll likely be gone in a Hung Parliament too, I should think. And the best point made (I forget who by) was that who ever gets in, will be making political suicide due to the economic crisis. So in a way, the Tories getting in would be a good thing, 'cause they'd be gone again soon enough. -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:42
Wasn't the last time Tories came to power a time of great recession, and they stayed in power for 18 years? 
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:49
Only some of their time was in the recession. However, they caused most of it. It was also at the time of the Filofax era when people were just spending money on crap and had bad taste in clothing. In this current situation, the whole world is suffering, so it's not directly Labour's fault. -------------
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Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:56
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^suffering from bad taste in clothing or from the economic crisis?
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Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 19:57
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^ What I meant was that there was already a (global, btw) recession, which helped them winning the elections. Anyway. This is only slightly related, but nice: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/7654268/Political-posters-have-we-forgotten-how-to-read-images.html - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/7654268/Political-posters-have-we-forgotten-how-to-read-images.html |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:02
Both. -------------
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Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:02
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On a side note, I was rather surprised when I discovered how flawless Nick Clegg's Dutch is. Not even a slight accent.
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Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:03
^ The French love him too... Just read a very Clegg oriented article in my favourite magazine. 
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:04
I wasn't really old enough then to fully appreciate the recession taking place. I am, however, fully aware of the current global recession. -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:04
His mother is Dutch, isn't she? When did he speak Dutch, anyhow? -------------
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Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:10
Yes she is, and yet Clegg managed to impress me. I thought it was in an informal interview for the Dutch news, but I'm not sure. -------------
Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:27
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He speaks fluent English, German, Dutch and Spanish, apparently. He also has Russian ancestry. -------------
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Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:34
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And the typical Tory argument that Clegg is not 'British' is utter nonsense and even racist. Like being 25% English would make a bad leader. Besides that, the British themselves are a 'bast*rd' people of Britons, Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Frisians, Scandinavians, French and WALLOONS after all. -------------
Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:36
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Don't forget the Walloons. Many modern Britons are also descended from Polish, West Indian, Indian, Chinese and Filippino (plus a lot more besides). Oh and Celtic and Pictish. -------------
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:40
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By the way, Michael Howard, the previous Tory leader isn't British either.
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Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:42
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Yes, but apparently not in the eyes of least some British when they consider even someone like Nick Clegg to be non-British.
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Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:44
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You forgot the Gaelic btw (and Britons were Celtic)
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Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:45
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Most British people didn't know anything about Clegg until recently. The only Clegg they knew was the on in Last of the Summer One. I do like the guy and the Lib Dems have many policies I agree with. They're aiming at a younger audience, that's what they're hoping, anyhow. Can they get the older voters though? -------------
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Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:48
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Probably some disillusioned old voters, but I can't see the Lib Dems winning these elections just yet. My bet is on a hung parliament.
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Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:51
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It will be a Hung Parliament, yes. However, a lot of young people (and I know a lot of them) are going to vote Lib Dem. That could be good for the future, I guess. If anyone has anything to gain from a Hung Parliament, it'll be the Lib Dems, especially if there's another election within a year. It's their chance to catch up! Although I'm a Socialist and would prefer a proper Labour party to be in power. -------------
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Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 29 2010 at 20:57
Good point. I must confess that I'm not that well informed about the British electoral system but it seems to be quite bizarre. Anyway, as a social liberal I wouldn't mind permanent Lib Dem power. 
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Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 02:11
Gordon Brown should have been used to this - that's the standard form of TV interviewing these days - on this showing, the lady concerned could have a bright future with the BBC -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 02:23
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He seemed quite relaxed when talking to her, Jim. Obviously he wasn't though. He also came across well and didn't alienate her (until afterwards, of course). I just think he felt it was "a disaster", when it wasn't. He personally wasn't expecting to speak to her and it was his advisers that threw her at him. However, yes, you're correct, he should be able to handle these situations better. -------------
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 02:50
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In one way it's true the whole thing has been blown out of proportion, but in another it was proof of the whole public/private face of politics; I dare say Cameron & Clegg could both have been caught out the same way, had they been in the same situation.
So far as timing is concerned though, this has got to go down as an all time classic faux-pas. In the event of a miracle occurring & Labour remaining in power this time next week, and if I were Brown, I wouldn't get too comfortable in number 10. -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 03:39
Yes, off course she was hounded out of her home by the press. But she entered into a conversation with the PM in the belief that this was a conversation and it ended there. Due to the dishonesty and two-faced nature of Gordon Brown; it did not. I have no gripes with the Labour Party, the other victim of this dishonesty. But I have issues with backstabbing, two-faced individuals. The conspiracy against the working class (in his own world, ie the Labour Party) is an idea expressed by http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/28/bigot-gaffe-murdoch-john-prescott - John Prescott * in his blog/twitter feed that same day. But it never fails to amuse me that all the parties who are set up to represent the working class, more or less have their origins among the middle classes and mostly at the universities. I am mostly referring to the extreme leftist parties here. * = The microphone was placed on Gordon Brown with his permission and in the understanding that all he said was the intellectual property of Sky News which they could use to their discretion. Neither the Labour Party or Gordon Brown has disputed this.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 04:37
Depends on your political perspective. Britain spent most of the 70's in the poor house, from what I remember. We were regarded as the 'sick man of Europe' We had three day working weeks and frequent powercuts under the tories, and years of strikes under Labour. The unions basically had the Labour party by the nuts, and their actions landed us with 17 years of Tory rule. I remember my father and his Conservative club friends raising their glasses in a toast to the trade unions at a Con party fund raising event.... 
We were in recession in the early 80's under Thatcher, then again under John Major in the early 90's. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 04:48
Yes, Brown's reaction to the incident was bizarre. It seemed a perfectly reasonable encounter - she asked some pointed questions and he answered them in a polite and informative way. I don't know how he could judge that "a disaster" and as you say he came out of it rather favourably if anything. The man must be paranoid about how he's perceived. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: Zebedee
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 05:07
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^Yeah that's what i thought. The immense amount of stress and the
negative public perception haunting Brown must have driven him to
despair. It's easy to make a blunder like Brown did during such a
stressful campaign. Besides that, it's usually in the nature of a shy man (which Brown, according to himself, is) to not show his real feelings directly to strangers like Mrs. Duffy. All in all, it was an understandable but unfortunate accident. -------------
Friendship is like wetting your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 06:38
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As Jim said, Dave or Nick could have also suffered the same fate so easily. Would you (Torodfuglestag) have therefore felt like you had been stabbed in the back by them as well? It seems the incident hasn't affected the opinion polls to much anyhow. Yes, he's still polling third but he the percentage hasn't dropped much. Unfortunately it seems people are still falling for the Conservatives. I can understand why the Lib Dems have picked up votes, due to Nick Clegg but David Cameron hasn't really been that great in the three debates (and I'm not saying that because I am biased -- Clegg won the debates and not solely on policies either). Having said that, he's probably about even, perhaps a bit better than Brown in terms of the 3 debates (and not because I agree with the Tory policies). -------------
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Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 07:10
Not really although I cannot stand the type of backstabbing and contempt Gordon Brown has shown here. It is morally repugnant. But if David Cameron had done it, I would had understood it. The Tories has never been a friend of the council estates in Rochdale. I suspect if some black death had wiped them out, no tears would had been shed in their homes in the Home Counties. Nick Clegg has no business in those council estates too. They are Labour homelands. The reason why I am angry is that up to that point, I warmly defended Gordon Brown. And as you know; there is no rage like the rage from the ones who has been betrayed.
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