Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge

New Posts

FAQ

How can metal be prog?

Post Reply

Page <1 2 345 6 15 >

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Mr. Chill

Forum Newbie

Joined: December 05 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 3

Posted: December 12 2008 at 23:36

A lot of this depends on your definition of prog. No, most prog metal sounds little to nothing like the 70s stuff, even during the softer keyboard/acoustic parts. However, the elements of prog (odd meters, complex solos, long songs, concept albums, etc.) are all there. By saying all prog has to sound like Yes, Genesis etc., I think you're making a huge mistake. About the jazz/classical influences, they are often there (at least the classical ones), although they might just not be as much as the forefront of the music, since guitars tend to dominate prog metal.

Personally, I have no problem calling bands like Dream Theater, which have full time keyboardists and softer passages to go along with the heavy moments, prog. For me, prog is about balancing these soft/heavy elements. It's only when bands are all heavy, and are considered/call themselves progressive because thyey have "long songs" or "odd time signatures" that I start to get annoyed. If the music is progressive, then taking away some of those "prog" elements shouldn't make it unprog, just as taking metal and adding "a few progressive elements" won't make it prog.

For me, it comes down to the dominant influence. SOmething like Dream Theater is prog with metal influences. Something like Meshuggah is metal with some prog influences. I think understanding this is important to determining a band's "progressiveness" (although note I think genres a horrible in the first place because they do nothing more than pidgenhole bands).

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: December 12 2008 at 23:06

HughesJB4 wrote:

Of course there is a link between Progressive Metalcore and Progressive Metal, we have progressive metalcore/mathcore bands in Tech/Extreme Prog Metal in our database.

Thanks.

HughesJB4 wrote:

But before you tried to say there is a link between metalcore and progressive metal, but metalcore per se is a totally different beast to progressive metal and are not directly linked, that's what me and Dean have been trying to explain to you Ivan.

Please Hughes, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MATH, I quoted you...You the expert were the one that said that the name was wrong and I believed you because I said (and I almost quote me) "I know very little and care less about Math", you said that it was really Technical Metalcore and used many terms (that keep growing with new adjective in each new post).

But I quoted a place where Math is called Progressive Metalcore.

BTW: Between the Buried and Me (A band I don't know about) is catalogued as Metalcore in other sites and we have them as Tech Extreme Metal...Do you insist there's no connection?

But to make it simpler that, and will explain you step by step:

There is Progressive Metal
You admit Progressive Metalcore is related to Progressive Metal
There's a sub-genre or whatever called Metalcore
Some of the Metalcore bands are Progressive Metalcore

In that case despite anything you say, there's a relation between Metalcore and Progressive Metal, call it direct or indirect (I never said direct, my knowledge doesn't go that far), but you can't deny the relation and the link between the two.

HughesJB4 wrote:

And don't put words into my mouth like you did before, I never said Technical Metalcore was the same as Progressive Metalcore. Nowhere did I say that or even imply that.
Technical Metalcore does not equal progressive. Technical Progressive Metalcore does in fact equal progressive.

No Hughes, you never said that, I had to find it in another source.

Mathcore (also known as technical metalcore, progressive metalcore, or noisecore)

And its' funny how each step you add new names, now you call it Progressive Technical Metalcore....WOW!!!!!! What will be next?

HughesJB4 wrote:

If I didn't understand the difference, I doubt I would have even got promoted to the Prog Metal Team at all.

I don't doubt you know the difference, I'm not saying they are exactly the same, but seems the difference is so subtle that even our own Prog Reviewers have problems.

And I say that because Prog Reviewers in our one site, call "Between The Buried and Me" PURE Metalcore http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=16337 , and you call it Extreme Tech Metal....Aren't there enough similarities if some Prog reviewers catalogue a Tech Extreme Metal Band as Metalcore, even if they are wrong?

Iván

PS: To make it clear, i don't pretend to know more than you, as a fact I know almost nothing about 90% of the adjectives you add, but using logic and a short research, you find that there's a connection

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 12 2008 at 23:27

Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210

Posted: December 12 2008 at 22:37

Of course there is a link between Progressive Metalcore and Progressive Metal, we have progressive metalcore/mathcore bands in Tech/Extreme Prog Metal in our database.

But before you tried to say there is a link between metalcore and progressive metal, but metalcore per se is a totally different beast to progressive metal and are not directly linked, that's what me and Dean have been trying to explain to you Ivan.

And don't put words into my mouth like you did before, I never said Technical Metalcore was the same as Progressive Metalcore. Nowhere did I say that or even imply that.
Technical Metalcore does not equal progressive. Technical Progressive Metalcore does in fact equal progressive.
If I didn't understand the difference, I doubt I would have even got promoted to the Prog Metal Team at all.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: December 12 2008 at 22:30

HughesJB4 wrote:

Umm Ivan, I'm very much willing to call your knowledge of metalcore in general in question.

You don't need to call my knowledge, I know almost nothing of Math and i said it inh my first reply to you.

HughesJB4 wrote:

I'm assuming you don't really know any of the bands of the genre, nor listen to it, but you're quick to make assumptions about something you don't know a busting lot about.
Wikipedia might tell it's also known as 'progressive metalcore' but here at PA on the Prog Metal Team and many other sources, we don't believe that to be the case.

So, becauswe you disagree and the Metal team does, does it make it true?

Why can't you be wrong and they right, why can't the other 1'000,000 of links that talk about Propgressive Metalcore be righht?

HughesJB4 wrote:

Neither Botch or Converge (as listed above) have even been bothered to be considered for prog metal, despite being well known bands.
Why?
Because they are mathcore bands, not PROGRESSIVE mathcore in the case of The Dillinger Escape Plan.
Botch and Converge are very technical bands, correct, but neither are progressive at all.

Please hugues, don't try to make a reduction so simple, nobody said they are identical or that Math means exactly Prog Metal, I said THEY ARE RELATED

HughesJB4 wrote:

Just as mathcore isn't necessarily progressive, extreme metal isn't necessarily progressive.
Both are technical music genres, but they are not guaranteed to be progressive.

You say that one is not necesarilly the other, I don't understand so far but i guess it's true,

As a fact I believe it's like saying Not all Folk bands are necesarilly Prog Folk bands (Which is a universal truth)

But if anybody said that there's no link between Progressive Rock, Progressive Folk and Folk, I would honestly doubt it.

HughesJB4 wrote:

This part of the area of expertise I deal with as part of the Progressive Metal Team when considering bands for Tech/Extreme Prog Metal, and believe me, I've done my research and my listening on a much broader level than merely reading through a wikipedia page.

I know your knowledge about Metal and Math is much wider than mine, but seems that not only Wikipedia, but a million links say that there is a PROGRESSIVE METALCORE, and if that exists and despite all your technical terms, you can't deny that there's a relation between both.

Nobody can tell me that there's no relation between PROGRESSIVE METALcore and PROGRESSIVE METAL.

And at least I proved there are some experts that disagree with you.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 12 2008 at 22:39

Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210

Posted: December 12 2008 at 22:20

Umm Ivan, I'm very much willing to call your knowledge of metalcore in general in question.
I'm assuming you don't really know any of the bands of the genre, nor listen to it, but you're quick to make assumptions about something you don't know a busting lot about.
Wikipedia might tell it's also known as 'progressive metalcore' but here at PA on the Prog Metal Team and many other sources, we don't believe that to be the case.

Neither Botch or Converge (as listed above) have even been bothered to be considered for prog metal, despite being well known bands.
Why?
Because they are mathcore bands, not PROGRESSIVE mathcore in the case of The Dillinger Escape Plan.
Botch and Converge are very technical bands, correct, but neither are progressive at all.

Just as mathcore isn't necessarily progressive, extreme metal isn't necessarily progressive.
Both are technical music genres, but they are not guaranteed to be progressive.
This part of the area of expertise I deal with as part of the Progressive Metal Team when considering bands for Tech/Extreme Prog Metal, and believe me, I've done my research and my listening on a much broader level than merely reading through a wikipedia page.

debrewguy

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596

Posted: December 12 2008 at 22:15

Equality 7-2521 wrote:

PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:

Modern metal is just a fad and soon the kiddies will see that and when they grow up they'll see how much better real prog is ;)

Makes perfect sense since modern metal is nearly a generation old.

Depends on how much you know of the scene. There always an underground that's just bubbling under and melding influences.
Mathcore and all the other technical metal / punk mashups may have been around for a bit. But they are just starting to settle into more identifiable styles. The same as the 70s Symphonic bands came to set down some examples and standards for their genre.
Metal itself, is not a fad. If it is, then it's one of the longest lasting ones, as it's been used as a descriptor since the late 60s, seems to go away for a bit, come back with some new touches, gets passed over by the next big thing, only to come back and build upon the previous bands & albums.
So - Cream (in cranking the volume, and using simple blues based riffs), Steppenwolf and a few others can be seen as proto metal. Then the original first wave of Purple, Sabbath, Zep, with the next tier of Uriah Heep, Status Quo, Hawkwind (yes, there are some who claim them as HM), Budgie. After that , the hard rock scene - UFO, Scorpions, Kiss, Judas Priest, BTO, Foghat, Rush,Van Halen and many others.
No forgetting the NWOBHM, with Maiden, Def Lep, Saxon, Motorhead. AC/DC broke big internationally to blast this bunch and the whole HM thing into the majors for a few years. The Americans got into the act by mid 80s, with the big four trashers - Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer. The L.A. scene was a concurrent happening with GnR, Motley Crue. Then at the end of the decade, came a harder edged sound from Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Annihilator, Sepultura, Napalm Death. Grunge and Alternative music was big for the early 90s, but the heavier bands in that genre were just a part of a big surge of heavy metal bands _ the beginnings of the Florida Death metal scene being one part of it.
Korn got the Nu Metal going, with all its' attendant seven string fury. And in the last decade, as with all previous "generations" newer bands like Soulfly, Artoropus (mispelt ?), Cynic, Mars Volta, Opeth, Meshuggah, and many other are ust adding to this genre called metal, which can really be broken down into more sub-genres and sub-sub-genres than PA would even dare have nightmares over , classification wise.

So, metal as a fad is as true as Prog as a fad, as Punk as a fad, as country as a fad; basically as true as with any other genre that has managed to find new fans and keep old ones beyond the short period that changing fads do.

So can metal be prog ? Some metal is prog, some is not. Most metal fans don't care about the sub-genring of the music they like. They just want to hear more. I.E. - check out the Wacken festival lien-ups, the Headbanger's journey documentaries (both), the old Reading festivals. Variety was there, as were the fans.

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: December 12 2008 at 22:10

Dean wrote:

I had a long and coherent argument about why a Metal FAMILY TREE is a perfect analogy to a FAMILY TREE...............................but is unnecessary, because:

1.- I was talking about Math, not about Metalcore

You can get into math rock (which btw, I still believe is a misnomer and is in many cases more correctly called mathcore, while what is called mathcore is more technically 'technical metalcore') and never have heard a 'prog' band in your life.

Many math rock ans came from the punk scene and couldn't care less about Yes, Genesis etc, although more so from the sub genre Post Hardcore than 'straight' punk.

Well, isn't there a connection between Metalcore and prog Metal?

2.- Hugues is not talking about Metalcore, he's talking about Math

4.- Mathcore or what Hugues calls Technical Metalcore is also knon as PROGRESSIVE METALCORE

Mathcore (also known as technical metalcore, progressive metalcore, or noisecore) is a rhythmically complex and dissonant style of metalcore. Mathcore has its roots in bands like Converge,^[1] Botch,^[2]^[3] and the Dillinger Escape Plan.^[4] The term mathcore is suggested by analogy with math rock. Both math rock and mathcore make use of unusual time signatures. Math rock groups such as Slint, Don Caballero, Shellac, and Drive Like Jehu have some influence on mathcore, though mathcore is more closely related to extreme metal. Prominent mathcore groups have been associated with grindcore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathcore

If you don't trust in Wikipedia, there are 1'000,000 links to Progressive Metalcore in http://www.google.com.pe/search?hl=es&q=Progressive+Metalcore&meta=

I clearly said I'm not an expert on Math,. but accepted when Hugues named Math as Metalcore because he's the expert, but if I find that Math is known as PROGRESSIVE METALCORE....Well

They are so related that there even exists a PROGRESSIVE METALCORE with not only one but the two same ancestors.

Would you insist that Metalcore and progressive Metal are not related if there is a PROGRESSIVE METALCORE as a direct link between both??????????

The prosecusion rests.

I seldom get angry and will happily lose an argument if I'm wrong

I'm waiting.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 12 2008 at 22:21

debrewguy

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596

Posted: December 12 2008 at 21:55

Deathrabbit wrote:

rogerthat wrote:

Rocktopus wrote:

Deathrabbit wrote:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that people should get their head out of their ass and quit elevating stuff they like and demonizing stuff they don't.

Everyone draws the line somewhere. Even you progmetallers says no to suggested metalbands at times.

On the other side there's people wanting to include freejazz legends like Ornette Coleman, Albert Ayler, John Coltrane etc here. I actively listen to all of them, so not agreeing, is not about me being closeminded or any of that crap. Its ProgArchives your ultimate prog rock resource not Progressive Music Archives (where most progmetal would have an even tougher job at getting included).

Disagreeing that something is prog, is not demonizing.

Deathrabbit can speak for himself, but I don't think it was directed at you, rather at the "how can you listen to growls, not music" posts. You don't seem to be demonizing PM but you are looking at it from a prog fan's point of view rather than a metal fan's. Which, honestly, is not so objectionable at all because I guess this is supposed to be a website for prog rock after all. LOL

But like I said, it's a Pandora's Box. What about Miles Davis, what about Prog-related then...it goes on and on. LOL

Yeah, I really think you missed my point. I don't care if you arguing that Yes is not prog. As long as you have a semi-decent reason, not just "I don't like it, so it can't be."

Hey, that's my Thread !!!

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

debrewguy

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596

Posted: December 12 2008 at 21:53

Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

A Metalhead can be a Prog Metal fan without ever having even heard the word Prog or even continue being one without ever listening a Prog band.

I guess that such people exist. Still, I'd think that the word "metalhead" is used for people who - regardless of whether they're familiar with genre labels - steer clear of anything that could be called prog. I guess this division exists in rock too, but in metal it's *very* evident ... some fans like prog, some don't, but there's almost no in between. People will either go for mainstream acts that will do everything "by the book", with no surprises ... or they'll gravitate towards experimental stuff. Interestingly, the latter often also listen to the mainstream acts to some extent, but not the other way round.

You know what, many music fans only find out later what the specific musical sub-genre a musical is. The metalheads include people who get into bands because they like what they hear. If later on, someone tells them " Hey Prog Archives says that they're a Prog Metal / Extreme/Tech Metal band", I don't think that will change much
In the 70s, Rush was often lumped in with metal groups, and even with the hard rockers like Kiss, Aerosmith, and even toured with Foghat on a co-headlining trek. I don't know of anyone amongst my friends who got turned off Rush when some media critics or Rock Journalists called them "prog". The music hadn't changed. The description used by some did.
Indeed, Rush were even called Progressive Metal. Yet PA lists then as Heavy Prog.
And my friends still like them and have not made any comment as to the changing "title" used to call the music whatever it is.

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

debrewguy

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596

Posted: December 12 2008 at 21:48

PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:

Modern metal is just a fad and soon the kiddies will see that and when they grow up they'll see how much better real prog is ;)

Modern everything is a passing "fad", isn't it ? And that's without getting into "the real Prog' debate ...

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: December 12 2008 at 21:19

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Dean wrote:

Never said Direct Connection Dean, but isn't the METAL element as common root of both a connection?

Just a question, agin if that tree is reliable, because if there's no connection between Kraut and Prog, then not so sure of anything, as a fact and according to this tree, Kraut is a separete and independant genre from from Prog.

Iván

You didn't use the word "direct" Iván, but Harry did when he said "but there isn't a direct connection between metalcore and 'prog metal" So, Yes, Metal is the common root, but then Rock is the common root to Prog and Punk - it doesn't mean the two are connected.

Dean please, punk, Prog and Metal all are Rock genres, that's true, but have nothing else in common.

Metalcore and Prog Metal have more things in common Rockk and Metal, as a fact they both priviledge the METAL element in their names

If you see a family tree, there's no direct connection between brothers, because one doesn't descend from the other, as a fact in genealogy and family law, brothers are not direct relatives are collateral relatives

A collateral relative (or collateral kinsman) is someone who is descended from an ancestor of the subject (but is not an ancestor or descendant of the subject).

http://www.eogen.com/CollateralRelative

But you can't deny there's a lot in common between brothers.

The problem with metaphors and analogies is they only work at one level - the level they are specified at. You cannot equate a Rock or Metal family tree with a Genealogical family tree beyond what is shown - there are no brothers, sisters, aunts or uncles of music - only parents, and each music subgenre can have one, two, three or more parents because they are not biological and are not limited by such things. Once a subgenre is created it continues to develop and progress by pulling in influences from other subgenres - Prog did not arrive fully-formed and neither did Prog Metal.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

In the same way Metalcore and Prog Metal, don't descend one from the other, but have a common ancestor called METAL.

So lets say Prog Metal and Metalcore are like half brothers, with a common parent named Metal and another different parent, in one case called Prog and in the other called Punk

But don't tell me that they are not related.

They have a common ancestor - no argument there - but they developed independently from each other with different parents of different generations - in the genealogical analogy, Metalcore's parents are the grandchildren of Prog Metal's uncle. Metalcore has as much in common with Prog Metal as Prog does with Punk in that the "distance" between them musically is just as great.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

For the Kraut bit - read my reply to Micky - it's a Metal Tree, not a Rock Tree - Krautrock is only included for the influence on Industrial music and does not show all the other roots of Prog Rock and Krautrock, so any lack of accuracy on that side of it can be excused - the metal side is accurate enough.

Sorry, but I can't trust in a site that makes mistakes or not precise connections even if not about their central issue.

::shrug:: continuing the genealogical analogy - if you draw-up your family tree do you show the grand-parents of your father's brother's wife? No - because they are not your direct ancestors, that is what this tree is doing - it's a standard method and is as precise as it needs to be - if they showed all connections and roots it would include skiffle, dixieland jazz, gospel and the plethora of other popular music forms that preceded including all the Eastern and Western Classical music genres and would be too complicated to understand or follow. Doing that defeats the sole purpose of an analogy - which is to illustrate through simplification.

As I said, analogies only work at the level they are stated - you cannot stretch an analogy further than that, especially if you want to show the secondary and tertiary connections between all the music genres- such connections do not exist in biology. If the analogy fails, then it is the fault of the analogy, not of the principles it's being used to illustrate.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Iván

PD: Don't get angry but I love this debates.

I seldom get angry and will happily lose an argument if I'm wrong

What?

Failcore

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625

Posted: December 12 2008 at 20:22

rogerthat wrote:

Rocktopus wrote:

Deathrabbit wrote:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that people should get their head out of their ass and quit elevating stuff they like and demonizing stuff they don't.

But like I said, it's a Pandora's Box. What about Miles Davis, what about Prog-related then...it goes on and on. LOL

Yeah, I really think you missed my point. I don't care if you arguing that Yes is not prog. As long as you have a semi-decent reason, not just "I don't like it, so it can't be."

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: December 12 2008 at 20:21

Dean wrote:

Dean please, Punk, Prog and Metal all are Rock genres, that's true, but have nothing else in common.

Metalcore and Prog Metal have more things in common Rock and Punk, as a fact they both priviledge the METAL element in their names.

I will give you an example of how not determinant are this words as Direct Connection.

A collateral relative (or collateral kinsman) is someone who is descended from an ancestor of the subject (but is not an ancestor or descendant of the subject).

http://www.eogen.com/CollateralRelative

But you can't deny there's a lot in common between brothers.

In the same way Metalcore and Prog Metal, don't descend one from the other, but have a common ancestor called METAL.

So lets say Prog Metal and Metalcore are like half brothers, with a common parent named Metal and another different parent, in one case called Prog and in the other called Punk

But don't tell me that they are not related.

Sorry, but I can't trust in a site that makes mistakes or not precise connections even if not about their central issue.

Iván

PD: Don't get angry but I love this debates.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 12 2008 at 20:23

micky

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833

Posted: December 12 2008 at 20:16

Atavachron wrote:

but that's what I love about the Prog community, it itself is progressive

ahhh.. very much so. Wise words my friend Clap

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Atavachron View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65255

Posted: December 12 2008 at 20:09

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Dean wrote:

From that is is easy to see that they is no direct connection between Metalcore and Prog Metal, in the same way that there is no direct connection between Prog Rock and Punk Rock.

Never said Direct Connection Dean, but isn't the METAL element as common root of both a connection?

Just a question, Is that tree reliable?

Because according to them there is no connection between Kraut and Prog (Direct nor indirect),

If this is true, then I'm not so sutre of anything, because if as they say Kraut is a separate and independant genre from Prog with absolutely no connection except Rock as common root of both; then all the Prog sites including our's are wrong, because Kraut should not even be mentioned.

Iván

I think what should be taken from this is that they developed independently of each other, both forms of rock revisionism and therefore sharing certain similarities - the period, an infusion of musics, etc, - in fact, Prog and Kraut are completely different IMO, what they share is a love of meliorism in rock music.. but that's what I love about the Prog community, it itself is progressive

Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: December 12 2008 at 20:02

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Dean wrote:

From that is is easy to see that they is no direct connection between Metalcore and Prog Metal, in the same way that there is no direct connection between Prog Rock and Punk Rock.

Never said Direct Connection Dean, but isn't the METAL element as common root of both a connection?

Just a question, agin if that tree is reliable, because if there's no connection between Kraut and Prog, then not so sutre of anything, as a fact and according to this tree, Kraut is a separete and independant genre from from Prog.

Iván

Edited by Dean - December 12 2008 at 20:02

What?

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: December 12 2008 at 19:54

Dean wrote:

From that is is easy to see that they is no direct connection between Metalcore and Prog Metal, in the same way that there is no direct connection between Prog Rock and Punk Rock.

Never said Direct Connection Dean, but isn't the METAL element as common root of both a connection?

Just a question, Is that tree reliable?

Because according to them there is no connection between Kraut and Prog (Direct nor indirect),

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 12 2008 at 20:00

micky

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833

Posted: December 12 2008 at 19:53

makes sense Thumbs Up

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: December 12 2008 at 19:49

micky wrote:

Dean wrote:

From that is is easy to see that they is no direct connection between Metalcore and Prog Metal, in the same way that there is no direct connection between Prog Rock and Punk Rock.

interesting... Clap

though I must say... found it even more interesting that there is not direct connection between Prog Rock and Krautrock LOL

Well, the tree focuses on Metal rather than Rock - so from that perspective they don't need to show any linkage... and if you think about it, early Krautrock is a synergy of Psyche, Proto-Prog, Musique Concrete and Jazz and started at pretty much the same time as Prog Rock

What?

micky

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833

Posted: December 12 2008 at 19:41

Dean wrote:

From that is is easy to see that they is no direct connection between Metalcore and Prog Metal, in the same way that there is no direct connection between Prog Rock and Punk Rock.

interesting... Clap

though I must say... found it even more interesting that there is not direct connection between Prog Rock and Krautrock LOL

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Post Reply	Page <1 2 345 6 15 >

Forum Jump

Forum Permissions View Drop Down

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

This page was generated in 0.428 seconds.

Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.