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Catcher10 
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17973
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 Posted: April 07 2011 at 17:28 |
I think that is the jist of most peoples issue with the ratings.....Its always the ones who like an artist or in this case a genre, who's panties get all in a wad when a negative review comes out........Really who cares! I wonder if it is a deep personal problem that then makes the disgruntled fan wonder.....'hmmm maybe I shouldn't like this band or genre since such and such didn't like it...'
That would be bad.....don't follow the masses but follow your own likes and dislikes, be true to yourself. As King says...get over it...its music. There are more important issues to get pissed about, like when am I getting a raise from my sh*t boss!!!
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 17:14 |
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So it balances out the people who give a 5 to everything they sort of like.
Besides, lets all remember that normal members don't really affect the algorithm all that much and collabs are usually more respectful than that.
I really didn't like Kayo Dot's BLD, does that mean I can't review it because I don't like minimalistic avant music? I'm not going to go and bash all their albums without hearing them, but if I have a negative opinion I should be able to express it.
If you like a band who's style isn't for everyone then just get ready for the criticism. What's also funny is how personal people take reviews for music that they like. It isn't YOUR album. Get over it.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17973
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 17:06 |
^ You have to squirt lemon juice on your computer screen for the words to appear.....I use invisible ink
comeonnnn!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 16:39 |
 Catcher10 wrote:
My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike
Why?
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Because all the ones you've written so far are impossible to read?
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What?
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17973
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 16:33 |
My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike
Why?
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 15:28 |
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
So if you goes to Nepal for a holiday, you compare it to Canada and use Canada as the norm or do you go there with an open mind and describe what you see or hear ? I hope for your own sanity's sake; the latter. If you review a Magma album with no or little pre-exposure to the genre, you describe what you hear with an open mind and with whatever words comes to you. That is my approach........ I hope.
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Well whenever I review an album it's an album that I've neen listening to for a while and am familiar with. Not like those gits from Rolling stone who probably listen to the amazon sampler and then go for the jugular. I saw quite a few Rolling Stone reviews back in the seventies and eighties where I was 100% sure they hadn't listened to the thing at all!.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18146
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 13:32 |
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
... If you review a Magma album with no or little pre-exposure to the genre, you describe what you hear with an open mind and with whatever words comes to you. That is my approach........ I hope. |
Goodness Toro ... you are asking for too much ... this is one of the most difficult things to get across to people, even in this board ... specially when the vultures come back and attack you like you are the plague for saying something like that ...
In the end, you are 110% right. It is all about the willingness to listen and hear something else and different ... but too many people react to new things the same as Ozzie and Harriet ... although that might be a bit before their time, but isn't it funny how times are supposed to change and they don't? ... we just wear a different shirt and now carry a digital camera ... ohhh wait ... I gotta get a picture of Toro on that camel ... get them sunglasses too ... !!!! Music? ... was there any music?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 13:14 |
So if you goes to Nepal for a holiday, you compare it to Canada and use Canada as the norm or do you go there with an open mind and describe what you see or hear ? I hope for your own sanity's sake; the latter. If you review a Magma album with no or little pre-exposure to the genre, you describe what you hear with an open mind and with whatever words comes to you. That is my approach........ I hope.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 12:37 |
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What should we do then? Assume a prog-metal mindset when reviewing prog metal or a Canterbury mindset when reviewing specific genres? Some bands and artists are all overthe map. Jan Akkerman for example. What does his Aranjuez album ( with composer Claus Ogerman ) have to do with say, From The Basement that is probably his heaviest album next to side 2 of Profile.
Why don't we ditch all these genres, many of which are misleading in the first place, and rating system and review the music on it's merits.
I have a few friends who have visited the site who just think it's too damn confusing with all these genres regardless of the explanations.. I have an airline pilot friend who knows freak all about music who says that all these genres just baffle the hell out him so I have to help him with all his goddam dowloading for sh*t to listen to on long flights.
I happen to be listening to this prog metal band right now called Hemina from the land of OZ. Not too shabby at all.
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 11:23 |
Sean Trane wrote:
I can see where you're getting at...
I'm generally seen as someone who hates metal and neo prog genres (I don't really  )... Metal music is part of my teendom (or teenhood if you prefer) and Script is probably on my Desert Island disc list.... but I don't reviewmuch in those given genres either, because I tend not to buy or listen to stuff that I know will bore me.... Mostly when I review one of thosde metal or neo album, it's because I rented it from my library system.
It's quite true that there aren't many albums (in those genres I cited) that I actually like, but then again most of those genres keep flinging out new albums that are beating the same old ground... and that's bloody boooooooring to me, and extended boredom sessions drive me to sort of dislike the album that drives to that state.
That's the main reasn why I would rate badly an album... and I'd tend to want to warn potential victims to stay away from it, whatever genre it might be in.
if we weren't allowed to rate things we like less, then every rating left would be good ratings and therefore useless to the decerning prospective proghead...
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Oh no no I don't mean not rating albums you don't like. And there's definitely a difference between disliking a sub-genre and disliking the bands in the genre. Reviewing albums low for lack of original or creative ideas is in my eyes completely fair. For me it's the most important trait in an album. What I think someone shouldn't review is an album that he dislikes because it sounds too prog metal (i don't know... Too much distortion, too much Dream Theater?). If you like prog metal's sound and invest time in prog metal, than I don't see why you shouldn't review albums low for their compositional structures (fancy.....) and creativity, not because they are too prog metal-y.
Edited by frippism - April 07 2011 at 11:24
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20436
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 10:19 |
frippism wrote:
First of all- sorry if this is in the wrong place, wasn't really sure where to put it. OK carrying on:
I've started quite a hooha when I reported a review of Cardiacs' "Sing To God" when the user posting that review reviewed/rated more than 70 (or more I don't recall) albums under the RIO/Avant-Prog genre 1 star. The discussion led to should PA members be banned for generally just reviewing a bunch of albums 1 star resulting from an obvious dislike to sub-genre (and being general jerks)? My answer in the end of the matter was no- you can't. Who am I are or anyone else to judge why review anything.
Wiiiiiith that I think there is also a place to improve PA users judgement skills and make them a better PA user (in my opinion, of course) and in the end a better person! Because being a better prog reviewer leads to a better life! And my rant is this: DON'T! DO NOT! JUST DON'T REVIEW ALBUMS UNDER SUB-GENRES YOU GENERALLY DISLIKE. AND PARTICULARLY DON'T TAKE OUT YOUR DISLIKING TO A WHOLE SUB-GENRE IN ONE REVIEW OF ONE ALBUM, WHO DOESN'T DESERVE THE UNFAIR REVIEW.
Back to library voice. Let me use an example: I rather have a disliking to Neo-Prog. Not only in its sound and melodic and harmonic compositional approach to music, but also in its composing ideology. And because I have a general disliking for Neo-Prog I DO NOT REVIEW NEO-PROGRESSIVE MUSIC. My opinions will not only hurt an albums rating average, but it will do so unfairly. All I will be able to write is why I dislike the album because I dislike Neo-Prog (enter general Neo-Prog stereotype here). Someone who says- "I enjoy lush keyboards and soaring guitars and long compositions", will not care for my review which will say "I don't like lush keyboards and soaring guitars and that's why this album sucks". Instead, this reviewer will be and should be interested in the opinions of those who like Neo-Prog as a whole, like many bands from Neo-Prog, and agree with the general Neo-Prog ideology. The people who enjoy and listen to Neo-Prog can give a fairer criterion (well it won't be perfect in any way, but fairer it will be) on whether the album is a good album or not, according to what a Neo-Prog fan would want to find in an album.
So conclusion, if you simply review an album badly because you hate on a certain sub-genre, instead of why the album is good or bad according from someone who understands more in the sub-genre, generally appreciates the genre, and has a well and strong opinion on why this albums is good and why the album is bad. They shouldn't dish out some annoying fact like: " I hate growling= bad music/album" |
I can see where you're getting at...
I'm generally seen as someone who hates metal and neo prog genres (I don't really )... Metal music is part of my teendom (or teenhood if you prefer) and Script is probably on my Desert Island disc list.... but I don't reviewmuch in those given genres either, because I tend not to buy or listen to stuff that I know will bore me.... Mostly when I review one of thosde metal or neo album, it's because I rented it from my library system.
It's quite true that there aren't many albums (in those genres I cited) that I actually like, but then again most of those genres keep flinging out new albums that are beating the same old ground... and that's bloody boooooooring to me, and extended boredom sessions drive me to sort of dislike the album that drives to that state.
That's the main reasn why I would rate badly an album... and I'd tend to want to warn potential victims to stay away from it, whatever genre it might be in.
if we weren't allowed to rate things we like less, then every rating left would be good ratings and therefore useless to the decerning prospective proghead...
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 09:09 |
Evolver wrote:
Dean wrote:
SolarLuna96 wrote:
frippism wrote:
I'd be scared that emoticon creeps me out. |
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If your location was "california" and were posting from Beijing I would be  you too.
Clowns creep me out  |
Then you're on the wrong web site.  |
 ?
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 09:09 |
SolarLuna96 wrote:
frippism wrote:
I'd be scared that emoticon creeps me out. |
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 07:55 |
Dean wrote:
SolarLuna96 wrote:
frippism wrote:
I'd be scared that emoticon creeps me out. |
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If your location was "california" and were posting from Beijing I would be you too.
Clowns creep me out |
Then you're on the wrong web site.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 07:54 |
frippism wrote:
Evolver wrote:
mono wrote:
Here is my 'new artist' routine.
1. Read Bio(s)
2. Go listen to a few songs on streaming
3. Look at the highest rated albumS and read some reviews on those that rose my interest so far, preferably from reviewers I 'know'.
4. Decide on an album to buy.
Ratings are ratings, you have to accept that they're flawed rather than trying to correct everyone's behavior.
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Exactly.
If you plan on using reviews to influence your purchases, look at reviews for albums you know, both like and dislike, and find reviewers that tend to like what you like, for the same reasons. And use their reviews for advice. |
Yeah that rather makes sense. With that, it depends on the number of reviews that the album gets, and what if none of the reviewers I regard reviewed? It's a good way, and should be done, but still there are problems. |
There are always problems.
In the case you state, I would look at the reviews that are there, and check the reviewers' history, and see if I agree with them. If they like a lot of albums I don't like, I'll disregard the review.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 07:40 |
SolarLuna96 wrote:
frippism wrote:
I'd be scared that emoticon creeps me out. |
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If your location was "california" and were posting from Beijing I would be you too.
Clowns creep me out
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What?
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 07:24 |
frippism wrote:
I'd be scared that emoticon creeps me out. |
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 07:05 |
Evolver wrote:
mono wrote:
Here is my 'new artist' routine.
1. Read Bio(s)
2. Go listen to a few songs on streaming
3. Look at the highest rated albumS and read some reviews on those that rose my interest so far, preferably from reviewers I 'know'.
4. Decide on an album to buy.
Ratings are ratings, you have to accept that they're flawed rather than trying to correct everyone's behavior.
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Exactly.
If you plan on using reviews to influence your purchases, look at reviews for albums you know, both like and dislike, and find reviewers that tend to like what you like, for the same reasons. And use their reviews for advice. |
Yeah that rather makes sense. With that, it depends on the number of reviews that the album gets, and what if none of the reviewers I regard reviewed? It's a good way, and should be done, but still there are problems.
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 07:03 |
I'd be scared that emoticon creeps me out.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 06:19 |
mono wrote:
Here is my 'new artist' routine.
1. Read Bio(s)
2. Go listen to a few songs on streaming
3. Look at the highest rated albumS and read some reviews on those that rose my interest so far, preferably from reviewers I 'know'.
4. Decide on an album to buy.
Ratings are ratings, you have to accept that they're flawed rather than trying to correct everyone's behavior.
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Exactly.
If you plan on using reviews to influence your purchases, look at reviews for albums you know, both like and dislike, and find reviewers that tend to like what you like, for the same reasons. And use their reviews for advice.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike
