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Dean 
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
 Posted: January 01 2009 at 07:18 |
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During the 70s in the UK, Symphonic groups like Yes and ELP were described as Pomp Rock (probably from Elgar's Pomp & Circumstance, though perhaps just from pompous) - at times the term was also applied to Queen (in the days when they were considered a Prog band). In the rest of the world, Pomp Rock evidently came to mean something completely different.
Edited by Dean - January 01 2009 at 07:20 |
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11401 |
Posted: January 01 2009 at 01:42 |
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Ah yeah, pomp rock. A definition used on bands like Angel, Kansas and Starcastle - amongst others. Magnum and Saga too. Remember that style description and the bands mentioned as placed in that style since like forever; more than twenty years ago I first came across that style description containing those acts.
Found a more detailed account in Italian; strangely enough: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomp_rock |
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
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The Rock
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: June 30 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 746 |
Posted: January 01 2009 at 01:11 |
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I don't know if Angel would qualify as prog but they are featured in Jerry Lucky's ''Progressive Rock files'' book.Mr.Lucky is an authority in prog circles I believe. I would say that some of their early material had similarities with Magnum,mid period Heep and other pomp-rock bands;Styx,Journey,Queen,ect...
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What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: December 31 2008 at 20:31 |
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Angel prog ? Angel , an influence on 80s hair metal ?
Answer is no on both counts. No prog. No influence on 80s hair metal. The hair metal scene, while owing much to Glam Rock's penchant for anthems, also took a lot from 70s hard rockers like Kiss and Aerosmith. And Angel was seen in their time, and later as pomp rock. Puff piece music. I know of no references made to them by GnR, L.A Guns, Motley Crue, Warrant, or other leading lights in the Hair Metal scene. Indeed, the closest would be Axl Rose's championing the Aussie group Angel City. The reason they couldn't use their original name - the Angels, was because of Angel, and also a 60s girl group. And that's that. As for their first album being prog ... well it did fly progressively farther the harder you threw it. Friends of mine bought because of a perceived musical similarity to the then current hard rock scene. In the 80s, western civilization would invent the word "poser" to describe such musicians. If you like them , fine. They did have a following, and I did read a few articles about them in magazines like Hit Parader and Circus. But none alluded to them being prog. And Circus regularly had groups like Rush, Genesis, and (gasp) King Crimson, Tull and Yes during the mid to late 70s. |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 19:06 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 18:49 |
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I hope this was a missunderstanding, no hard feelings.
Iván
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 18:42 |
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Swan Song you and me know Rushfan knows Certif1ed and me enough for years.
Iván
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 18:30 |
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That's true, but he may have simply mistook you for Cert1fied for a moment. Trying to remember that debate about the definitions for Symphonic Prog you had with Cert some time ago, it was difficult even for me to remember exactly who supported those various definitions and who didn't.  Edited by Swan Song - December 30 2008 at 18:31 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 17:25 |
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That's not all Swan Song, saying
"I realize that a definition from another site means little to most here at PA and absolutely nothing to Ivan,·
Is totally unjustified, false and aggressive, as a fact when i add a band, I check and quote what every other site says as a referenvce, even if the other site doesn't agree with me,
I do exactly the same when i disagree with a band, to the point that if I had a buck for every time I read That we are the Nª 1 site and shouldn't care for what others say, I would be rich.
The last thing I would do is not caring for what otthers say, I have my position, I defend it with passion, that's how I am and won't change.
But i do listen others even if I disagree.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 30 2008 at 17:34 |
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 17:19 |
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Oh boy what a quarrel over a simple misunderstanding.
 The web address is OK, only RF4 didn't put the ending bracket in the hyperlink
This is better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_(band) |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66588 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 17:11 |
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I never disputed the link didn't work. That is why I copied the article. I think that you are misinterpreting what I typed because the words that I typed were in bold. I pasted the article first and the beginning of the article was in bold letters. When I typed the opening sentence that was the font that PA chose for me, and I was not able to change the font. I'm sorry that this was misinterpreted as rage or insinuation that you were lying. That was not the case. I honestly don't know why the link didn't work. I have only been pasting links in PA every day for the last year and a half. I have no idea why that link decided not to work.
Peace,
Scott
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 17:09 |
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^ the link doesn't work because the closing ")" in (band) is not included in the link - a simple error easily fixed, thus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_(band)
I am sure Scott only cut and pasted the entire contents of Wikipedia because the link did not and not because he thought you were lying.
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What?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 17:01 |
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The your explosion of rage publishing the whole article and insinuating I was lying was unnecessary, so please next time verify before,
I said the link doesn't work and now you admit the link doesn't work.
Iván
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66588 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 16:55 |
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Hi Ivan, The link isn't working for me either. I'm not sure why???? That is why I copied the article. I also agree that since it is from Wikipedia that it doesn't carry much weight, I just felt it was interesting that they did assign progressive rock as one of the band's genres. No skin off of my back either way.
Cheers,
Scott
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 16:52 |
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Before your display of power and fury, please anser me:
1.- Does your link work?
Was it nevcessary to post the whole page?
2.- It sauys it's the link between URIAHH HEEP and POISON...Doesn'tt say Ptrogressive Rock, as a fact for many people Uriah heep iis just a Hard Rock band
I heard them so i can't talk, I don't see the connection between Uriah Heep and Angel but yes with Poison.
3.- Does the article say they are a Progressive Rock band?
BTW: Would you trust in a person who does a comparison between Uriah heep and Poison.
Again as i saidbefore, if you don't like me giving oinions or have a problem with me...tell me directly, but don't invent things as:
"As always, I realize that a definition from another site means little to most here at PA and absolutely nothing to Ivan·,
Being a monitor doesn't give you the faculty to invent.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 30 2008 at 16:55 |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66588 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 16:45 |
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Again it falls under for whatever it is worth, but here is a link to the AllMusicGuide review of their debut album. http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:wbfrxq95ldde
Noted the following: "But from the opening notes of "Tower," there's a curious admixture of progressive rock, almost entirely due to Gregg Giuffria's contributions of harpsichords, piano, and Mellotrons."
I haven't heard them, and it doesn't make them a prog band, but at least one other person out there makes a connection between the band and Prog Rock.
Also, from the Wikipedia article "
"For better or for worse, Angel was quite influential in their own way—particularly on the glam metal boom of the 1980s—and represent a kind of missing link between keyboard-driven hard rock bands of the ’70s such as Uriah Heep and ’80s acts like Poison." I know that you, Ivan, may be the biggest Uriah Heep fan on PA, so there is something to be said with this quote. |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65603 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 16:44 |
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I think HeavyProg may have looked at them and decided against based on the vast majority of their work.. but that first album has Prog written all over it and is quite good.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 16:39 |
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Thanks for pyublishing Rushfan, I had already corrected my post...But again, the article itself says nothing of them being Prog, read my previous post.
Iván
BTW: I insist, your link DOESN'T WORK, keeps sending me to a blank page, I had to search...But the important issue is that the articcle werote by God knows who, doesn'tr say they played Prog, only a mention in the tag. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 30 2008 at 16:47 |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66588 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 16:36 |
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I'm not sure why the link didn't work. This is the info as copied from Wikipedia.Angel (band)From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Angel are a glam rock and heavy metal band from Washington, DC, formed in the mid-70s by Punky Meadows and Mickie Jones. They were signed to Casablanca Records, and had the image of dressing in white.
[edit] HistoryAngel were discovered by KISS bass player Gene Simmons performing at a nightclub and were signed to Kiss’s record label Casablanca[1]. Angel's image of dressing in all white was a deliberate contrast to Kiss, who wore black. Angel sported an androgynous image and elaborate stage sets. They were slammed by rock critics, and Frank Zappa ridiculed the all-male band’s female appearance in the song “Punky’s Whips.” [2] Angel never achieved mass commercial success but acquired a following as a cult band. Their first album was the self-titled Angel and consisted of the lineup of guitarist Punky Meadows, bassist Mickie Jones, vocalist Frank Dimino, keyboardist Gregg Giuffria, and drummer Barry Brandt[3]. This lineup would hold for the following two albums, Helluva Band and On Earth As It Is In Heaven, after which Jones would be replaced with Felix Robinson. They made an appearance in the film Foxes and Frank DiMino sang “Seduce Me Tonight” on the Flashdance soundtrack. Although Angel never officially disbanded, members went on to other things following the release of their live album. Lead vocalist Frank Dimino joined UFO guitarist Paul Raymond in the Paul Raymond Project in which he sang lead vocals. Bassist Felix Robinson played on the debut album of the band White Lion, Fight to Survive. Angel’s keyboardist Gregg Giuffria had modest success as the leader of the band Giuffria during the 1980s, along with the band House of Lords. The rest of the band (sans Giuffria) reunited in 2002 and released a new album The Power And The Myth on Frontiers Records. In 2006, Giuffira appeared as a guest keyboardist on World Upside Down. House of Lords released Come to My Kingdom in 2008, again without Giuffria. In the late ’90s, Angel reformed with a new line-up. Keyboardist Gordon G.G. Gebert joined the band in 1999 and left in 2002. Currently, the band members are Frank Dimino, vocals; Barry Brandt, drums; Randy Gregg, bass; Steve Blaze, guitars; and Michael T. Ross, keyboards[4]. The band’s 2000 release In the Beginning also features guest appearances by original guitarist Punky Meadows, as well as Robinson. In 2000 came the release of Angel: The Collection, making it the most extensive Angel greatest hits compilation including 16 songs. In 2006 Lilith released two singles albums which has singles released through the band’s career (1975-1981), and even though it has most singles released at that time it does not include “Better Days” which was taken off the White Hot album and replaced with “The Winter Song.” This song remain unreleased on CD or cassette format. It is however available as a 7" single but is very hard to find. Angel is now working on a new album, which so far has no name, but there has been a total of three written songs and they are: “Worship the Sun,” “Hold On To Your Dreams,” and the third song does not currently have a title. The fourth song is “Even Now,” but it is not certain whether this is the third untitled song, a new fourth song, or just an unreleased track. For better or for worse, Angel was quite influential in their own way—particularly on the glam metal boom of the 1980s—and represent a kind of missing link between keyboard-driven hard rock bands of the ’70s such as Uriah Heep and ’80s acts like Poison. [edit] Discography
[edit] Notes and references
[edit] External links
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_(band)"
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: December 30 2008 at 16:31 |
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The use of an instrument doesn't define agenre, Stevie Wonder used Mellotron also...It's the way the instrument is used.
I can't talk for Crossover, but IMO not remotely related with Prog, and don't consider the people who give their opinions here ignorants, it's a bit strong specially being a newbie.
reading the evolution of your posts it's obvious we are before a fan, first you say:
Quiestioning our knowledge of Prog, STYX made two or three full Prog albums, QUEEN also, not familiar with Aviary, but if they were added, a reason must exist.
Then you change your argument to:
The band that deserved to be here more than QUEEN or STYX, is now a band that probably played (acciording to you) a small amount of Prog.
So please. Symphonic it isn't, i don't believe Prog or even Related to Related, butthat's not my call.
I never give my opinion without having listened them Am,ericanProgster:
- The Twoper has only a nice Mellotron solo in the instrumental breakk, but the rest of the song is purely Rock.
- Long Time is a Power Ballad and nothing more, good track, IMO their best, but again not Prog
- Mariner is another simple ballad
- Sunday Morning is an AOR/Heavy Rock track with a good Moog section.
- The Fortune: Again an interesting instrumental break but nothing more
- Cast the Fitrst Stone: Pure Heavy Rock with distorted guitars and a touch of Arena Rock
- Just a Dream: Beside the pompous opening a la Europe witha good piano, nothing remortelyuy related.
Yes I do care for what some people say, but not in all cases for Wikipedia in which I don't have the slightest idea who wrote it, but which never says they are a prog band (Please read the article)
But I also case for their official Myspace site that describes them as Hard Rock, Classic Rock and Glam
Also verified the most open policy sites as
But after a lot of search found:
As a fact the article itself makes no mentioon of them being Prog, except for a comment made about Zappa
And of course the fact that they:
Which is not very Prog to say the least.
So please, don't say i don't care for what others say.
Thanks
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 30 2008 at 16:41 |
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Angel (US Symphonic/Crossover)
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Swan Song wrote: