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AtLossForWords 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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 Posted: August 01 2006 at 13:07 |
 NutterAlert wrote:
What's this thread about again? |
It's about lecturing special collaboarators and an admin on forum ethics. 
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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NutterAlert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 07 2005
Location: In transition
Status: Offline
Points: 2808
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 12:23 |
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What's this thread about again?
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Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
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NutterAlert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 07 2005
Location: In transition
Status: Offline
Points: 2808
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 12:23 |
^ sounds like bullsh*t to me 
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Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 11:58 |
TheLamb wrote:
Tony R and Micky, I find it odd that after you and Ghost Rider's
wonderful speech about forum ethics, making a big deal of me calling
people stupid (In some countries considered a crime against humanity),
and a few moments after both of you reply to my (and a few other
people's) posts in a far ruder manner. I mean, sure, disagree with me,
thats fine, but I find reffering to an entire post as "Bullsh*t" is not
very nice. |
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TheLamb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 18 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 07:20 |
Tony R and Micky, I find it odd that after you and Ghost Rider's wonderful speech about forum ethics, making a big deal of me calling people stupid (In some countries considered a crime against humanity), and a few moments after both of you reply to my (and a few other people's) posts in a far ruder manner. I mean, sure, disagree with me, thats fine, but I find reffering to an entire post as "Bullsh*t" is not very nice.
micky wrote:
hahahah... shame I don't have time, and need to run or I'd reply to that pile of sh*t you just unloaded here hahah. |
Tony R wrote:
I'm quite sure that Petrucci and the boys will be thrilled about this gaggle of school-age fanboys rooting for them.. |
Tony, it's not like you've been using any curse words but throughout this entire thread you've been disrespecting me. "gaggle of school-age fanboys rooting for them"? Dude thats low. Besides, I'm not even rooting for Dream Theater, hell I don't even like them that much... It's about music in general, not Dream Theater...
Tony R wrote:
I've just cancelled a reservation at our local gourmet restauraunt because I've just realised I've never been a chef |
I don't know how much theory there is in cooking, or how much of an art it is, but I guess someone who has learned cooking theory [?], practices the art [?] of cooking, and gained experience doing so, would be able to appreciate, or atleast understand the food to more extent... It dosen't mean that people who haven't studied cooking can't enjoy it, it just means that they would understand it less... But then again I'm not sure this comparsion between food and music is reasonable so lets stop it here...
Sacred 22 wrote:
I have never heard so much BS in my life. Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. There are a couple of guys named Bush and Blair that are right up there as well. For one thing I am no musician and I can safely say that I can certainly appreciate music. If what you say is true, then how is it that all the creatives musicians that make music we love here, make a living if only the musicians are apprecaiative and buying??? I don't what to say too much here. but I think you should think about what your saying. I listen to classical music which I love and jazz as well as progressive rock. If I was forced to listen to pop based on the assumption that you make I would go mad. I can just see it now. People flocking to the nearest music school to become "enlightened" so they would not hahve to endure Britney anymore. I'm sure trained musicians understand technical structure of and music to a greater degree, but so what? Music was developed as a means of expression and entertaining. |
You are mussing the point. I'm not saying that people who haven't studied music can't appreciate fine music at all. Im saying they cant appreciate it to its fullest, or maybe a better way to put it is they cant understand it. Many people who haven't learned music can appreciate what they hear, don't get me wrong. They just would not understand it as much... Besides, taking up and instrument dosen't automatically make you enlightened. I have been playing piano classicaly since age 7 and I can certainly say that 3 years ago I couldn't fully apprecaite music the way I do today.
You like Classical and Jazz? I'll give two examples from that world;
- Before I actually played the "Revolutionary Etude" by Chopin (Op. 10 No. 12) I couldn't propperly appreciate it's genius. I loved it before I played it. It has been one of my favorite pieces eversince I can remember myself, but when I played it I started to understand it in a whole different level.
- Before I started learning theory intensivly and starting playing jazz in addition to classical, I couldn't truely appreciate the genius of Art Tatum. He was my favorite jazz pianist ever since I started listening to jazz, but only when I learned a whole lot of theory and started playing jazz myself, I started to understand that his speed isnt just "pointless scale shredding" (like many keyboardists do), and his chords aren't just chords. Art Tatum is a real genius of reharmonization (modifying the chord progressions that support the melodies), and his solos are more complex than I could imagine... I dont think I would have been able to differentiate his playing from other jazz pianists, and therefore understand how innovative and genius his work is compared to others.
Bottom Line: Anyone can appreciate music, and anyone can love great music. The more you study music, the more you understand the fine detail, and comprehend the small (and big) things in the music that you hear.
P.S, please don't kill me if I said something completly out of place in this post, it is more likely that I simply didn't use the right phrase, because english is not my native language.
Edited by TheLamb - August 01 2006 at 08:00
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 04:05 |
transend wrote:
guess I should add more. 
I believe that it is evident all around that appreciating DT is easier as a muso..I think constantly about how they piece together and play what is not only very complicated, but good to hear too! Rush, I think are in the same bracket. 'Spirit of radio' is a great example; an easy song to like but REALLY hard to play! I truly believe that knowing your way round a bass, guitar or keyboard furthens your understanding and enjoyment of such music. |
Well, all I can say to that is you better start listening to Stravinski and Mahler. Hell, I might as well throw in Bach as well.
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transend
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 876
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 02:21 |
guess I should add more.
I believe that it is evident all around that appreciating DT is easier as a muso..I think constantly about how they piece together and play what is not only very complicated, but good to hear too! Rush, I think are in the same bracket. 'Spirit of radio' is a great example; an easy song to like but REALLY hard to play! I truly believe that knowing your way round a bass, guitar or keyboard furthens your understanding and enjoyment of such music.
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transend
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 876
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Posted: August 01 2006 at 02:18 |
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couldnt agree more with sbrushfan
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 23:30 |
Sacred 22 wrote:
TheLamb wrote:
sbrushfan wrote:
I'm a musician (drums-17 years, keys-14 years, percussion-17 years, guitar-3 years, vocals-most of my life) as well as a songwriter for 11 years. When approaching a Dream Theater critique, IMO, one should have an understanding of their music or an understanding of music (and theory) IN GENERAL. No offense to anyone here who's not a musician (I'm sorry if I offend anyone) but, if you don't have an understanding of music as musicians hear it, you don't know what to look for, and moreover, what you're hearing.
The same could be said for a band like, say, Rush. Alex Lifeson, in a 2002 interview with Guitar World, said more or less that "bands like us and Dream Theater are music for musicians. If you don't play at least one instrument, you won't get it."
I tend to think he's right.
Now, I shall run away as fast as my little drummer legs carry me. I daresay that some sh*t might be stirred up and I don't want to be caught in the crossfire. |
Wow, Alex Lifeson really said that?
I mean... He is 100% right, but thats not something I would expect to hear from him...
I agree with sbrushfan completly.
I think it's true though not only about DT and Rush, it's true about all music.
The reason people like commercial pop such as Britney Spears is because they have no musical knowledge (theory or experience). They can't understand how simple and lacking of artistic depth her music is (I would tend to say it "sucks" but that is a matter of taste...).
The vast majority of musicians, or people who have some knowledge of music don't like commercial pop. And the small precentage of musical savants that do enjoy commercial pop would probably not deny that it is very simple, commercial, and lacking of emotional depth.
In the same sense, people with no musical knowledge are likely to not be able to fully appreciate music that is complex, full of emotional and artistic depth. At least not in the same way that people with musical knowledge do. |
I have never heard so much BS in my life. Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. There are a couple of guys named Bush and Blair that are right up there as well.
For one thing I am no musician and I can safely say that I certainly appreciate music. If what you say is true, then how is it that all the creative musicians that make the music we love here make a living if only the musicians are appreciative and buying??? I don't what to say too much here, but I think you should think about what you are saying. I listen to classical music which I love and jazz as well as progressive rock. If I was forced to listen to pop music based on the assumption that you make I would go mad. I can just see it now. People flocking to the nearest music school to become "enlightened" so they would not have to endure Britney anymore. I'm sure a trained musician understands the technical structure of any music to a greater degree, but so what? Music was developed as a means of expression and entertaining. |
I think you guys are missing the point. I think when he's saying "you guys who aren't musicians can't appreciate music" he isn't saying you can't like or dislike any type of music properply. He's saying you can't appreciate the finer points that we know as a musical science. When it comes to the amount of pain staking practice and rehearsel to make albums such as Dream Theater's, or the parts of counterpoint harmonic theory, the structure of rythymns, the structure of chords, and all that stuff that non-musicians have no need to understand.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 22:44 |
TheLamb wrote:
sbrushfan wrote:
I'm a musician (drums-17 years, keys-14 years, percussion-17 years, guitar-3 years, vocals-most of my life) as well as a songwriter for 11 years. When approaching a Dream Theater critique, IMO, one should have an understanding of their music or an understanding of music (and theory) IN GENERAL. No offense to anyone here who's not a musician (I'm sorry if I offend anyone) but, if you don't have an understanding of music as musicians hear it, you don't know what to look for, and moreover, what you're hearing.
The same could be said for a band like, say, Rush. Alex Lifeson, in a 2002 interview with Guitar World, said more or less that "bands like us and Dream Theater are music for musicians. If you don't play at least one instrument, you won't get it."
I tend to think he's right.
Now, I shall run away as fast as my little drummer legs carry me. I daresay that some sh*t might be stirred up and I don't want to be caught in the crossfire. |
Wow, Alex Lifeson really said that?
I mean... He is 100% right, but thats not something I would expect to hear from him...
I agree with sbrushfan completly.
I think it's true though not only about DT and Rush, it's true about all music.
The reason people like commercial pop such as Britney Spears is because they have no musical knowledge (theory or experience). They can't understand how simple and lacking of artistic depth her music is (I would tend to say it "sucks" but that is a matter of taste...).
The vast majority of musicians, or people who have some knowledge of music don't like commercial pop. And the small precentage of musical savants that do enjoy commercial pop would probably not deny that it is very simple, commercial, and lacking of emotional depth.
In the same sense, people with no musical knowledge are likely to not be able to fully appreciate music that is complex, full of emotional and artistic depth. At least not in the same way that people with musical knowledge do. |
I have never heard so much BS in my life. Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. There are a couple of guys named Bush and Blair that are right up there as well.
For one thing I am no musician and I can safely say that I certainly appreciate music. If what you say is true, then how is it that all the creative musicians that make the music we love here make a living if only the musicians are appreciative and buying??? I don't what to say too much here, but I think you should think about what you are saying. I listen to classical music which I love and jazz as well as progressive rock. If I was forced to listen to pop music based on the assumption that you make I would go mad. I can just see it now. People flocking to the nearest music school to become "enlightened" so they would not have to endure Britney anymore. I'm sure a trained musician understands the technical structure of any music to a greater degree, but so what? Music was developed as a means of expression and entertaining.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 22:09 |
Tony R wrote:
Mickey,where you been?
I've been pretty much solo here,finger steadfastly stuck in the
dyke preventing the bullsh*t from enveloping our little village... 
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hahah... it looked like you had things under control... part of
experience is knowing when the give people enough rope to hang
themselves.. nice job. That last post was utter rubbish.
Sorry I was away.... I had to was out of gas and had to and
from work since I'm not an auto mechanic.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 19:05 |
Tony R wrote:
AtLossForWords wrote:
I just hope their usernames are not changed to "guests" before your binge is over |
You are most definitely safe.I've just reminded myself of the fact that not having written any novels I'm probably not qualified to judge the quality of your posts.....
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You should become an author Tony, we'd all love to see just how creative you really are. 
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:59 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
I just hope their usernames are not changed to "guests" before your binge is over |
You are most definitely safe.I've just reminded myself of the fact that not having written any novels I'm probably not qualified to judge the quality of your posts.....
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:56 |
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:54 |
AtLossForWords wrote:
This is the Dream Theater fanbase I've been waiting to see for so long. Just keep it coming, I like what I'm seeing here Tony |
I'm quite sure that Petrucci and the boys will be thrilled about this gaggle of school-age fanboys rooting for them.
I've just cancelled a reservation at our local gourmet restaurant because I've just realised I've never been a chef.... 
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AtLossForWords
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6699
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:47 |
Tony R wrote:
Mickey,where you been?
I've been pretty much solo here,finger steadfastly stuck in the dyke preventing the bullsh*t from enveloping our little village...
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This is the Dream Theater fanbase I've been waiting to see for so long. Just keep it coming, I like what I'm seeing here Tony.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:33 |
Mickey,where you been?
I've been pretty much solo here,finger steadfastly stuck in the dyke preventing the bullsh*t from enveloping our little village...
Edited by Tony R - July 31 2006 at 18:33
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:26 |
TheLamb wrote:
sbrushfan wrote:
I'm a musician (drums-17 years, keys-14
years, percussion-17 years, guitar-3 years, vocals-most of my life) as
well as a songwriter for 11 years. When approaching a Dream
Theater critique, IMO, one should have an understanding of their music or an understanding of music (and theory) IN GENERAL. No offense to anyone here who's not a musician (I'm sorry
if I offend anyone) but, if you don't have an understanding of music as
musicians hear it, you don't know what to look for, and moreover, what
you're hearing. The same could be said for a band like, say, Rush. Alex
Lifeson, in a 2002 interview with Guitar World, said more or less that
"bands like us and Dream Theater are music for musicians. If you
don't play at least one instrument, you won't get it."
I tend to think he's right.
Now, I shall run away as fast as my little drummer legs carry
me. I daresay that some sh*t might be stirred up and I don't want
to be caught in the crossfire. |
Wow, Alex Lifeson really said that?
I mean... He is 100% right, but thats not something I would expect to hear from him...
I agree with sbrushfan completly.
I think it's true though not only about DT and Rush, it's true about all music.
The reason people like commercial pop such as Britney
Spears is because they have no musical knowledge (theory or
experience). They can't understand how simple and lacking of
artistic depth her music is (I would tend to say it "sucks"
but that is a matter of taste...).
The vast majority of musicians, or people who have some
knowledge of music don't like commercial pop. And the small precentage
of musical savants that do enjoy commercial pop would probably not
deny that it is very simple, commercial, and lacking of
emotional depth.
In the same sense, people with no musical knowledge are likely to
not be able to fully appreciate music that is complex, full of
emotional and artistic depth. At least not in the same way that people
with musical knowledge do. |
hahahah... shame I don't have time, and need to run or I'd reply to that pile of sh*t you just unloaded here hahah. 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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TheLamb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 18 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:19 |
sbrushfan wrote:
I'm a musician (drums-17 years, keys-14 years, percussion-17 years, guitar-3 years, vocals-most of my life) as well as a songwriter for 11 years. When approaching a Dream Theater critique, IMO, one should have an understanding of their music or an understanding of music (and theory) IN GENERAL. No offense to anyone here who's not a musician (I'm sorry if I offend anyone) but, if you don't have an understanding of music as musicians hear it, you don't know what to look for, and moreover, what you're hearing.
The same could be said for a band like, say, Rush. Alex Lifeson, in a 2002 interview with Guitar World, said more or less that "bands like us and Dream Theater are music for musicians. If you don't play at least one instrument, you won't get it."
I tend to think he's right.
Now, I shall run away as fast as my little drummer legs carry me. I daresay that some sh*t might be stirred up and I don't want to be caught in the crossfire. |
Wow, Alex Lifeson really said that?
I mean... He is 100% right, but thats not something I would expect to hear from him...
I agree with sbrushfan completly.
I think it's true though not only about DT and Rush, it's true about all music.
The reason people like commercial pop such as Britney Spears is because they have no musical knowledge (theory or experience). They can't understand how simple and lacking of artistic depth her music is (I would tend to say it "sucks" but that is a matter of taste...).
The vast majority of musicians, or people who have some knowledge of music don't like commercial pop. And the small precentage of musical savants that do enjoy commercial pop would probably not deny that it is very simple, commercial, and lacking of emotional depth.
In the same sense, people with no musical knowledge are likely to not be able to fully appreciate music that is complex, full of emotional and artistic depth. At least not in the same way that people with musical knowledge do.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:10 |
hahhah... awesome... the symphonic team rejoyces in victory and retires to the veranda for a mint julip.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Epics Of Dream Theater
