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MikeEnRegalia 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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 Posted: September 29 2005 at 01:51 |
 FishyMonkey wrote:
Sorry, but I think Tool gets a little too much credit for being a little more than typical. They aren't bad, definitely not, but when people orgasm over their music because they are slightly complex and interesting, it annoys me.
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Sorry, I think they're much more than that. Lateralus is a very sophisticated piece ofo music. It's subjective ... you can neither prove or disprove it.
FishyMonkey wrote:
They belong in prog-related, which is where I think Iron Maiden and Metallica should be. Iron Maiden because they didn't really do anything prog related on purpose, they just stuck to their genre, which was straight heavy metal.
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Agreed on Iron Maiden.
FishyMonkey wrote:
Heavy metal can include keyboards and longish songs. Metallica was just thrash. Dragonforce does thrashy stuff with long suns and keyboards, but we don't have them here because they were simply thrash. Thrash is known to incorporate some keyboards looking back.
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This part doesn't make sense to me. Let's just skip it ...
FishyMonkey wrote:
Now once again, Death is prog because they completely defied the genre they created and had a VERY original sound by TSOP. The ywere prog.
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NO. Being innovative (even if it leds to the creation of a new genre) doesn't necessarily make something Prog. Death's newer album are prog because they are complex, sophisticated AND stepping beyond their "base" genre by adding other influences.
FishyMonkey wrote:
Tool and Iron Maiden and Metallica, while all pretty good bands, are not prog...just cause we like them doesn't make them prog.  They all seem prog-related to me.
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Too bad that you can'T see the difference between Tool and Metallica. It's pretty obvious.
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yesman72
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 28 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 185
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 22:01 |
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I kinda like the idea of Maiden and Priest being added to the site under a prog related category. Maiden and Priest both have admitted to being heavily influenced by Uriah Heep. And on Priest's earlier stuff, especially Sad Wings of Destiny, there's kind of a concept going on and also stuff like the track "Prelude" which led into Tyrant which was exactly the kind of thing prog bands were doing. Aside from that they had a big harmony guitar sound similar to Queen, which are apparently considered prog. "Two Minutes To Midnight" is like a metal orchestra and Maiden's first two albums remind me of Deep Purple and Uriah Heep a lot. But on the other hand, although i do like all the bands mentioned so far, I don't know if i would consider any of them to be honest prog except maybe Heep. But anyway I could live with it. Don't know about Metallica though.
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Ty1020
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 721
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 21:43 |
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Dragonforce is speed metal... I wouldn't put them on this site, but they're an amazing band.
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 21:35 |
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Dragonforce is nothing whatsoever to do with thrash!
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FishyMonkey
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 127
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 21:33 |
Sorry, but I think Tool gets a little too much credit for being a
little more than typical. They aren't bad, definitely not, but when
people orgasm over their music because they are slightly complex and
interesting, it annoys me. They belong in prog-related, which is where
I think Iron Maiden and Metallica should be. Iron Maiden because they
didn't really do anything prog related on purpose, they just stuck to
their genre, which was straight heavy metal. Heavy metal can include
keyboards and longish songs. Metallica was just thrash. Dragonforce
does thrashy stuff with long suns and keyboards, but we don't have them
here because they were simply thrash. Thrash is known to incorporate
some keyboards looking back.
Now once again, Death is prog because they completely defied the genre
they created and had a VERY original sound by TSOP. The ywere prog.
Tool and Iron Maiden and Metallica, while all pretty good bands, are
not prog...just cause we like them doesn't make them prog. They all seem prog-related to me.
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decypher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 06 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 157
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 21:30 |
horza wrote:
i quoted Motorhead earlier and someone added that they ARE prog related due to the Lemmy/Hawkwind link  |
don't forget the Mikkey Dee - King Diamond/Mercyful Fate link.
(I know, KD and MF aren't progressive... bla bla)
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 21:04 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
The Ryan wrote:
I think Mariah Carey and Snoop Dogg have to be included in prog-related.
Thoughts?
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If your posts only were as complex as your avatar.
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Two things spinning round complex? No wonder you like Kamelot! |
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 21:00 |
horza wrote:
The Minstrel wrote:
Christ anything could be prog-related to you people. It always like "There's this band I like and they once did a long song and once their drummer played a song in this weird time signature, Oh My God prog related!!!!" I've probably listened to a thousand bands that are prog-related.
To name a few: The Doors, The Who, The Kinks, The Velvet Underground, The Beatles, Cream, Crosby Stills and Nash, Grand Funk Railroad, Steely Dan, Sonic Youth, The Band, Janes Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers.
If we are added Maiden and Metallica, we'd surely have to add these.
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omigod!!! somones gonna see those names and say "now you come to mention it........" aaaargggh |
That's because Sonic Youth damn well ARE prog related! Not to mention the Beatles and maaaaybe Jane's Addiction.
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R_DeNIRO
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 431
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 19:31 |
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It's easy to make jokes by saying "Oh, let's include Mariah Carey", but the fact is that Metallica and Iron Maiden have an enormous importance in the formation of Prog-Metal. It's enough with reading the biography of the most importants bands of Prog-Metal like Dream Theater or Opeth. They confess having an strong influence of both bands, and this is the rule, not the exception in the majority of progmetal bands. Even though bands like motorhead, judas priest and similar aren't mentioned with the same frequency; they aren't a progmetal influence like Metallica and Maiden. Include both bands in Prog-Related or in a kind of subgenre that we can called "Proto-ProgMetal", is not an option, it's a duty. Some of you are against it, I understand it, but it's obvious that there is a strong connection between these bands and the history of Prog (Prog-Metal in concrete). Don't forget that Steve Harris was a teenager fan of Genesis, Yes and Jethro Tull, for example; or that Cliff Burton was a fan of Rush (his favourite bassist was Geddy Lee). Obviously these facts are reflected in their music (like I said before, in the early period of their music).
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We were always be much human than we whish to be.
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Don Quito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Costa Rica
Status: Offline
Points: 266
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 19:25 |
Why bother??? Anything can goes under that category... So just stick them in... the main reason for having a prog related related label was to included almost everything that sounds proggy... Iron Maiden / Metallica / Black Sabbath / Ozzy Osbourne (any heavy metal band that spured in the 80's, since they all were influenced by progressive bands), but I still don't agree with that category...
Metallica is a cool band and Master of Puppets, Ride the Lightning and And Justice for All, were the only three albums with that progressive blend/touch (influence). After those years, they "sold out" every seat and became what we know.
Iron Maiden has a lot of influence from Deep Purple, Yes, Wishbone Ash and Black Sabbath. In fact, their album Seventh Son of a Seventh Son is considered as a concept album featuring a story of a mythical child who possessed clairvoyant powers based on the book Seventh Son by Orson Scott Card.
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KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE
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The Ryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 559
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 19:10 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
The Ryan wrote:
I think Mariah Carey and Snoop Dogg have to be included in prog-related.
Thoughts?
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If your posts only were as complex as your avatar.
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Your simplistic response is almost as bad as my internet sarcasm.
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 18:34 |
Bj-1 wrote:
The Minstrel wrote:
Christ anything could be prog-related to you people. It always like "There's this band I like and they once did a long song and once their drummer played a song in this weird time signature, Oh My God prog related!!!!" I've probably listened to a thousand bands that are prog-related.
To name a few: The Doors, The Who, The Kinks, The Velvet Underground, The Beatles, Cream, Crosby Stills and Nash, Grand Funk Railroad, Steely Dan, Sonic Youth, The Band, Janes Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers.
If we are added Maiden and Metallica, we'd surely have to add these.
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Don't forget Slayer, AC/DC & Motörhead  |
i quoted Motorhead earlier and someone added that they ARE prog related due to the Lemmy/Hawkwind link
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Bj-1
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 04 2005
Location: No(r)Way
Status: Offline
Points: 31377
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 18:31 |
The Minstrel wrote:
Christ anything could be prog-related to you people. It always like "There's this band I like and they once did a long song and once their drummer played a song in this weird time signature, Oh My God prog related!!!!" I've probably listened to a thousand bands that are prog-related.
To name a few: The Doors, The Who, The Kinks, The Velvet Underground, The Beatles, Cream, Crosby Stills and Nash, Grand Funk Railroad, Steely Dan, Sonic Youth, The Band, Janes Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers.
If we are added Maiden and Metallica, we'd surely have to add these.
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Don't forget Slayer, AC/DC & Motörhead
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 18:24 |
The Ryan wrote:
I think Mariah Carey and Snoop Dogg have to be included in prog-related.
Thoughts?
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If your posts only were as complex as your avatar.
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 18:24 |
The Ryan wrote:
I think Mariah Carey and Snoop Dogg have to be included in prog-related.
Thoughts? |
i agree and then NWA and Public Enemy 
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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The Ryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 559
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 18:20 |
I think Mariah Carey and Snoop Dogg have to be included in prog-related.
Thoughts?
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R_DeNIRO
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 431
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 17:52 |
The Minstrel wrote:
Christ anything could be prog-related to you people. It always like "There's this band I like and they once did a long song and once their drummer played a song in this weird time signature, Oh My God prog related!!!!" I've probably listened to a thousand bands that are prog-related.
To name a few: The Doors, The Who, The Kinks, The Velvet Underground, The Beatles, Cream, Crosby Stills and Nash, Grand Funk Railroad, Steely Dan, Sonic Youth, The Band, Janes Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers.
If we are added Maiden and Metallica, we'd surely have to add these.
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All these things have to be thought before include Queen, Deep purple, Supertramp, etc... Now the door is open. I prefer the site only with prog, absolute prog, but now there is prog related, and Metallica and Maiden are prog related. So they deserve to be included.
(Sorry for my english)
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We were always be much human than we whish to be.
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 17:51 |
hmmmm maybe quasi-pseudo-proto-prog
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 17:50 |
For those of you who continue to mention the Rime of the Ancient Mariner: Listen to Shadow Gallery - Ghostship (on their album Carved in Stone), it's MUCH more progressive.
Having said that, the song might be called Proto-Prog, but not the entire album Powerslave - the better part of it is good "true" Power Metal.
BTW: Early Metallica is hardly Proto-Prog or Prog Related IMO ... on Ride the Lightning they started to experiment with interludes, sophisticated solos and strange harmonies. Master of Puppets is THE Proto-ProgMetal album.
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: September 28 2005 at 17:48 |
The Minstrel wrote:
Christ anything could be prog-related to you people. It always like "There's this band I like and they once did a long song and once their drummer played a song in this weird time signature, Oh My God prog related!!!!" I've probably listened to a thousand bands that are prog-related.
To name a few: The Doors, The Who, The Kinks, The Velvet Underground, The Beatles, Cream, Crosby Stills and Nash, Grand Funk Railroad, Steely Dan, Sonic Youth, The Band, Janes Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers.
If we are added Maiden and Metallica, we'd surely have to add these. |
omigod!!! somones gonna see those names and say "now you come to mention it........" aaaargggh
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Metallica and Iron Maiden in ProgRelated?
